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Author Topic: T&L Observation
Bigshot
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posted 11-15-2000 06:31 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You guys running Geforce2s might want to turn off the T&L in game box. I just did for the first time and picked up 20 fps and I still have T&L working in the game. My GTS must provide it regardless of what the game setting is. Matter of fact everything looks much better and runs much faster with just the card T&L. Must have been conflicting with the game setting. Running 40 fps sitting on runway and 30 to 60 during a fight now with fsaa on. Watched it drop to 16 when a zero exploded right in front of me. 1600x1200x32 and all settings are maxed including "extremely dense scenary".
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Kraigman
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posted 11-15-2000 08:03 PM     Profile for Kraigman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks, Bigshot, will give it a try...
Posts: 144 | From: Franklin, MA. USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Fender
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posted 11-15-2000 11:04 PM     Profile for Fender   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
bigshot how fast is your cpu?
Posts: 179 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 11-16-2000 06:13 AM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
PIII 800 100 with 256mg ram. I'm not suggesting everyone will get the same result with the in game T&L turned off. Just that I got a hugh increase in framerate and still have T&L functioning. Maybe there's a vid card setting??? Don't know. I used the virtual cockpit all of the time. When I turn cockpit off and fly out over the ocean, I see fps spike to 80 and 90 now. Clouds still kill it though. Don't use em'. Besides, the clouds are kinda ugly.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
LhW
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posted 11-16-2000 07:51 AM     Profile for LhW   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ugly Clouds!!

I think they look great, especially with FSClouds 2000. Actually, they are some of the best weather effects I have yet to see in a sim.

Framerate hit is not really that bad with clouds on. I have an AMD 750 with 128 megs o' ram, and a Voodoo 3 3000. With details set to almost full at 900x something or another I don't usually fall under 25 fps and I peak in the 80's.

Turn those clouds back on!

- LhW


Posts: 46 | From: | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
nibbio
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posted 11-16-2000 11:04 AM     Profile for nibbio   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bigshot, how do you know T&L is working at all? Is there a way to know?
BTW clouds are very nice, especially with FS2K (running a V5 5500 here)
Ciao,
nibbio

Posts: 166 | From: Italy | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpinDry
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posted 11-16-2000 11:07 AM     Profile for SpinDry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah, I'm curious about that too. Is there a 'something' to look for that tells one it's on or off? I can't seem to see a real difference either way with an Athlon 850, 256MB of memory and a voodoo5/5500 AGP. Getting 40-100 FPS in 800 res with the "do it for me cuz I'm a moron" slider over to 6, and FSAA at 4x.
Posts: 296 | From: Rome, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-16-2000 11:30 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think the canopy reflections indicate the presence of T&L?

Woh, I'm back on!

[This message has been edited by Jv44~Siggi (edited 11-16-2000).]


Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 11-16-2000 12:56 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If the sun is on your 3:00 oclock position and the other side of your airplane is shaded, then T&L is running. Pretty simple, huh?? Those complaining about black looking wings are probably just experiencing T&L lighting. HEHE.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Truro
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posted 11-16-2000 04:17 PM     Profile for Truro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You get T&L no matter what vid card you run. If it's not done in hardware it's done on the cpu. I havn't seen a game yet that looked different between hardware and software T&L. A system with a low end cpu, PII or original celeron without SSE, could see a speed improvement with hardware T&L.

Bigshot's speed improvment from unchecking the hardware T&L checkbox could be from letting the cpu do T&L, unloading the GTS's T&L unit which is what does the math calculations for fsaa.


Posts: 1441 | From: Tulsa, Ok | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Speedbrake
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posted 11-16-2000 04:48 PM     Profile for Speedbrake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for the tip!

The manual is SO HELPFUL in this area, yea right! I am running a PII 400 MHz w/256 MB RAM and a geForce 32 MB 3d Prophet video card. I un checked the T&L box and got a 7 fps increase in the framerate without any graphics loss for my current settings.


Posts: 310 | From: Fort Worth, TX USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 11-16-2000 05:20 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Truro: That makes sense. My GTS must have been working its little butt off trying to do both T&L and FSAA while the PIII 800 was sitting idle looking for something to calculate. It's logical, I guess. Let the card do the FSAA and let the CPU do the T&L. If that's what happened, it's about 20fps to my advantage. Good to hear someone besides me is getting better framerates. I'm seeing 60 fps with everything maxed. Very unusual to drop below 30fps even with all kinds of crap flying around.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
MeatWater
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posted 11-16-2000 06:14 PM     Profile for MeatWater   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't see any difference except a worse framerate when T&L is turned on. Athlon 800 256MB Voodoo 5 5500

------------------
^^^^^^^^^^^^
MeatWater

AudioVisual Design
http://www.meatwater.com
[email protected]
http://www.creadesign.de


Posts: 139 | From: Munster, Germany | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
BadBooze
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posted 11-16-2000 06:36 PM     Profile for BadBooze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Guys --- well this is one for the books but not a suprise. I ran the experiement and found I LOST about 10% of my frame rate when turning the T&L feature OFF !!! This gets back to the issue of whether your CPU/MB combo or the video card speed is really the pacing item in your system.

Cheers === BB ====


Posts: 141 | From: San Ramon, CA. USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-16-2000 07:38 PM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I get a lot more stuttering and momentary freezing with T&L turned off.

P3-800e, CLAP DDR and 395RAM on ASUS P3V4X.


Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
zoso
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posted 11-16-2000 09:28 PM     Profile for zoso   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I doesn't notice any different on fps at all with T&L on or off on my GTS ! But in Falcon 4.0 with eRazors exe it's a huge improvemant in fps with the T&L option, about 30%.
Posts: 70 | From: | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged

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