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Author Topic: Finally getting a new 'puter
Tailspin
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Member # 86

posted 01-24-2000 11:16 PM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Ok...this is it. Its time to retire my trusty old P-233mmx,Voodoo Banshee, 14in.800X600 max. monitor, Dino-system Shure is a faithful old cuss. Hate to see it go! Since I am a PO MO-FO I have around $1000.00 cash Amelican with maybe 3 or 400 more coming. I was thing along the lines 0f a P-III 500 FC-PGA(flip-chip) with a decent MoBo(Asus or Abit). I've seen the chip for around $235 on the web. The processor and the MoBo are really the main question I have about this. Help me! Please! what do you guys think? I "know" you and trust you. Also what about the GeForce vid card? Worth the price? I plan on building an entire system and giving my present on to my kid.
Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
LLv34_BlauKreuz
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Member # 381

posted 01-24-2000 11:52 PM     Profile for LLv34_BlauKreuz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Same here... my 223mmx is close to retirement

I am about to purchase a new comp and a new display card with it. I have thought that it would be nice to be able to watch DVD's with it but it has to work well in games as well.

I remember that there was some discussion earlier on display cards that did not work correctly with EAW. (was that some TNT?)

One card I looked into was ASUS geforce 256 deluxe (AGP-V6600). I seem to remember though, that some geforce had some problems... anyone remember such? This card has some VR 3D glasses as well ... but are they of any use really?? This card also seems to run quite hot... maybe trouble? Any comments on motherboard compatibility or power consumption?

Another one I checked was Matrox Millenium G400... either MAX or the normal one with 32meg. this cards seems to need a separate DVD card though. It supports dual monitors though.. which might be nice.

Any comments and suggestions are welcome. And if anyone remembers what kind of support FC:TOE or some others future sims might have for display cards.. please spell it out

Other specs I have thought:
-PIII 550
-128meg
-13Gb HD
-Win98.. maybe, I still have win95 now

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LLv34_BlauKreuz
CO, Lentolaivue 34
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www.muodos.fi/LLv34/


Posts: 98 | From: Helsinki, Finland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
bravo45
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posted 01-25-2000 12:07 AM     Profile for bravo45   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I would go with an ASUS motherboard. Those ASUS motherboards are very stable. Go to www.anandtech.com for motherboard reviews. If you have any question visit its forum http://anandforums.gisystech.com/ . You can post questions there, and someone will try to help you out. I don't think you can go wrong with the above system you want to build.

[This message has been edited by bravo45 (edited 01-25-2000).]


Posts: 88 | From: Pocatello, Idaho, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Sporko
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posted 01-25-2000 12:47 AM     Profile for Mr. Sporko   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Although it appears that many video cards are problematic with eaw, I am not exactly pleased with my ATI Fury 32meg card. Had to go through all kinds of torment to get menu screens to display (drivers, tweaks, etc.)
I still put up with a severe "shimmer" problem and the horizon fog does not display at all (at 1280x1028 it's like flying over a giant cube). Next time I will definitely put more time into checking out the right card.

Posts: 18 | From: Edmonton,AB,Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Irie2
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posted 01-25-2000 01:29 AM     Profile for Irie2   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Well I dont know that much about the technical aspects of vid cards, mother boards etc... but the gforce im running seems more or less stable with EAW. 1 in every 5 or 6 games I crash (to the desktop that is!) but im not sure if thats vid card, directx or what. Also there's a good article at www.gamersdepot.com/ comparing the new ddr gforce cards (assus and elsa) with each other and the new ati card (i think!) Anyway good luck chaps S!

Posts: 71 | From: Berkeley, CA, USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
JG5_Jerry
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posted 01-25-2000 02:03 AM     Profile for JG5_Jerry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
The GeForce card from Asus is the best of this type out there on the market at present. If you want to run games smoothly in high resolutions (1280x1024 and higher), this type of card will certainly help. IMHO, the ATi cards are not good at all (we shirk from using them in playtesting where I work, they're that bad!). The G400 is also a bit of a disappointment, as it doesn't seem to have many more features from the G200. Of course, people may disagree with me here, but part of my job is testing cards and they're graphical capabilities. 32Mb TNT2 Ultra cards are still very capable - Creative and Diamond make qiute good ones - but IMHO, Hercules cards win hands down for speed, reliability and graphics quality (they're highly favoured by Quake fans, for instance).

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C/O, Jagdgeschwader 5 'Eismeer'

http://www.madasafish.com/jerry/jg5


Posts: 702 | From: Kingston-Upon-Thames, UK | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tobiwan
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posted 01-25-2000 02:37 AM     Profile for Tobiwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
CPU and M/B:

I am a Computer Tech\Network Administrator so I have some idea of what I'm talking about.....

The Flip-chip PIII is very nice, very fast and VERY overclockable (I'm talking 700+Mhz here)...the only downside is that it fits in a FC-PGA socket and all the boards that mount these sockets are peices of s#!t. (Dont get me started on the i810E.)
There is hope however..
There are adapter boards, slockets, available that will allow the FC-PGA PIII to fit into a Slot One m/b..this is good as the only decent M/Bs in the world are Slot One\Slot A. Socket 370 and FC-PGA boards are budget crap.

The three FC-PGA enabled slockets I know of are: MSI-6905Master, Iwill Slocket II and the Gigabyte something or other.
So buy a FC-PGA PIII-500E and get either a 440BX or i820 based slot-one mobo and a slocket and away you go. Personally I would get a MSI BX Master motherboard or a Abit BE.6! The BE6 is a little pricey but hase 4 on-board IDE controllers, ATA-66, manual voltage control and ALL SORTS of cool stuff...it's the ultimate overclocking board.
The Gigabyte i820 board (can't recall name) is also very nice if you wanna try the new i810 chipset.
I have to say that I'm not sure that the FC-PGA PIII will work in ALL BX boards...you'll have to check up on that.

HOWEVER....

I would personally recomend that you say "Screw Intel" and get an AMD Athlon!!

[This message has been edited by Tobiwan (edited 01-25-2000).]


Posts: 893 | From: Amanzimtoti, KWA-Zulu, South Africa | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Der Sensenmann
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Member # 1979

posted 01-25-2000 12:20 PM     Profile for Der Sensenmann   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Back to Tailspin's budget. The Abit or Asus BX chipset boards are solid and good for overclocking. Get an Intel PIII @ 450, 500 or so and easily run it at FSB 112 with no additional cooling which gives you over 550mhz, plenty for EAW and most other games.

Spend the money on 128RAM and a Iiyama flat screen trinitron 17" or 19" monitor. Very sharp images and color for games. Check out overclockers.com and Sharkey's for more info.

EAW is a very resource efficient game. It ran fine at 1280 by 1040 resolution with my previous PII 450 with 128RAM and Viper 550 TNT 16mb. 16bit color in EAW and most games saves the need for super video cards. I looked into the GE Force cards, but the fill rate is not much better than the previous generation of cards and no sims are programmed to take advantage of T&L support.

I've spent a lot of money recently buying a Matrox G400 Max and a PIII 600 that I o/c to 672mhz on an Asus P2B motherboard, but you don't need that power for EAW, and I doubt that B17II will need that much horsepower either.

Buying a step or two behind the power curve will save you lots and lots of money. Game companies know that most people are still working their way up to the 500mhz range, and design accordingly.

Cheers

[This message has been edited by Der Sensenmann (edited 01-25-2000).]


Posts: 73 | From: Falls Church, VA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tailspin
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posted 01-25-2000 03:15 PM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the responces guys. I will do some more digging on this. First I think I'll get a new monitor and then I'll start picking up a piece here and there. Gonna take a little while...hope processor prices keep dropping!

WOW...Just got back from a visit to anandtech and you can buy aa Athlon 650 for $261! The 600 goes for 216!! It looks like a price war between Intel and AMD...COOL!!!!
But.....what to do now??? he,he

[This message has been edited by Tailspin (edited 01-25-2000).]


Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
BeerNBrats
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posted 01-25-2000 04:12 PM     Profile for BeerNBrats   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I'm planning my next machine right now....estimated build date is April 1 (no fooling!)....

I'd wait as long as possible to get the processor...those prices just keep coming down. Tailspin, if you are buying components on at a time, get rid of that 14" screen ASAP! For a decent 19" that doesn't break the bank, look for an Optiquest V95....a perennial award winner for budget systems. I have one and it is very nice.

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Any plane flys better with a belly full of beer 'n brats!


Posts: 48 | From: Jamaica Plain, MA USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tailspin
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posted 01-25-2000 04:27 PM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
BeerNBrats...Already pretty much decided on that one. Yep, It's gonna be my first purchase...very soon. I'm trying to hold the cost of MoBo and Processor to $400.00 or so. Looks like I will get close to that and still get 550 to 650 Mhz...depending on which way I go. At that price I can buy decent quality components for the rest of the machine.
Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Old Guy
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posted 01-25-2000 05:00 PM     Profile for Old Guy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Tobiwan has the right idea. Get an AMD chip. My next upgrade (1 - 2 months) will include an AMD K6-3 450 on an Epox board. AMD will save you money and work well. I like the Epox board because the ones I've used have been easy to set up and very reliable. My practice is to build a unit using proven components at reasonable prices, so I stay kind of back in the pack on technology. The Diamond TNT card I'm using now has worked without a hitch, just like the one before that.
Posts: 1769 | From: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tailspin
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Member # 86

posted 01-26-2000 04:03 PM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
What about the bad press on MoBo's for Athlons? Any good one's out yet? Seems like Athlon mb's are more expensive than others.
Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
BeerNBrats
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Member # 1755

posted 01-26-2000 04:46 PM     Profile for BeerNBrats   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Tailspin...take a look at Tom's Hardware site:

http://www.tomshardware.com/

I've followed his advice for quite a while...

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Any plane flys better with a belly full of beer 'n brats!


Posts: 48 | From: Jamaica Plain, MA USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tailspin
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Member # 86

posted 01-26-2000 05:14 PM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thank you sir, I'll check it out!
BTW...It seems the Opt.V95 is discontinued . How about the Q95 for the Viewsonic E790?

Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Kraut
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Member # 513

posted 01-26-2000 05:30 PM     Profile for Kraut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
We have an Asus Pure video card. That's the one without the glasses or TV in/out. It's on a Abit BE6 with 128 ram & a PIII450 O/C to 550. We're running all sims that can handle it, in 1600*1200. There were some times we had lockups so I put a fan blowing across the video card & now no lockups whatsoever. I play EAW without any visual clues except the padlock option. Also, no rear view cause I run pan rather than snaps. This is the best video card we ever had. The colours are fantastic but it's in the higher resolutions that it really shines. A little expensive but IMO, worth every cent.
FWIW,
Good Hunting!

Posts: 754 | From: Kitchener Ont. Can. | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Truro
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posted 01-26-2000 05:47 PM     Profile for Truro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Another vote for a FC PGA 500 or 550 coppermine. Get some RAM that will run 133, and end up around 700. Don't settle for a Katmai if you go Intel. Use your banshee, etc if you have to until the $ shows up. Get what you need the first time. I like anandtech for info, also.
Posts: 1441 | From: Tulsa, Ok | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tailspin
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Member # 86

posted 01-26-2000 08:47 PM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Truro...It was your posts on the hardware forum that got me interested in the FC-PGA chips.
Thanks again to y'all...
I'm just beginning to try and absorb all the information available on everything! I've got nothing but time and the web. Looks like I'll spend a little more than I expected, but I'm also getting more computer than I expected.
I need a Ge-Force ...hell I want to be "up-to-date" for a few months anyway. he,he.

Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tailspin
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Member # 86

posted 01-29-2000 03:29 PM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Ok...couple more questions...
Decided on a P-III FC-PGA 550 and Abit BE-6 II MoBo. What about RAM? If I o'clock the 550 do I use PC-100 of PC-133? Which is compatible? I thought the Chip was compatible with a 100mhz FSB. Confused. Also going for an Asus V6600 Pure vid card. OR..should I wait and check out the V6800 DDR? (Right now about $70 difference in price)
Thank you

Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Truro
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Member # 679

posted 01-29-2000 04:23 PM     Profile for Truro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Either 100 or 133 RAM will plug in and work. Basically, 133 is rated to run at 133. Some good quality 100 ram will run 133 or more.

Simple answer is to buy 133 ram, it's not much more, and will be foolproof for your overclocking.

If your rig makes it to 133 bus speed, that'll be about 730.

Here's a link to a source for 133 ram tested to 150, and sells for about $175 for 128 meg. The link came from a user at anands; I know nothing about them. Muskin.com has good ram, too.
http://www.fastmodems.com/bga128pc133.htm

As for video, I'd check agp overclock stability of the chosen card, at bxboards.com or overclockers.com, etc.

Your other option is to rethink motherboard choice, and get a Via chip based board instead of Intel BX, they allow you to run the agp in spec at 133. However the trade off is they don't perform as well as a BX board.

[This message has been edited by Truro (edited 01-29-2000).]


Posts: 1441 | From: Tulsa, Ok | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged

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