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Author Topic: What do you think of the Logitech Wingman Force for EAW?
Sarge
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Member # 1652

posted 12-31-1999 02:36 PM     Profile for Sarge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I am going to be getting a new stick soon.
Leaning toward the Wingman Force. All I usually fly are prop sims.
Anyone have any feedback on this feedback stick? <g>
Thanks in advance!
Sarge

Posts: 25 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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Member # 845

posted 12-31-1999 03:27 PM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Friend of mine has one..short throw and some looseness. He uses CH Pro Pedals. I introduced him to the padlock switch the other night and now he has a problem...which button to re-config (limited number of buttons).

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Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Sarge
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posted 12-31-1999 03:39 PM     Profile for Sarge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the info.
What stick would you recommend?
The thought of forcefeedback is very appealing, but not a necessity if the force feedback stick is not any good.

Posts: 25 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
MajorLee
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posted 12-31-1999 04:31 PM     Profile for MajorLee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I really like my Microsoft Force Feedback stick. I have had it for eight months now, and the only problem I had was when the voltage adapter came unplugged from the wall socket.

Major Lee


Posts: 1374 | From: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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posted 12-31-1999 05:04 PM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Major Lee,

I hate to disagree, but I must.

I have a Thrustmaster F16FLCS with TQS throttle and Elite pedals. Love it!!!

I may not have the FF gizmos and is "old tech" but it serves me well. Have shot down many a 109 with it.

The sad part is that come May of next year (this year in a few hours) TM will be coming out with a USB digital set up. I will wait until the reviews come out and if favorable will buy one. This rig will then serve as backup if the new one lives up to it's promise.

The best advise I can offer is this...try for a full HOTAS set up, but get what feels right to you and you can afford. And enjoy the thrill of A2A combat.

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Check six & aim for the cockpit.

[This message has been edited by mane_raptor (edited 12-31-1999).]


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 12-31-1999 05:35 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I recommend the MS Sidewinder forcefeedback. It's great with all the prop sims. I like the twist rudder too. At $120 it's a bargain. It's fully adjustable. I use gamecommander so buttons or no buttons don't bother me. The feel of the stick and the feedback from it is probably the most important single thing that make's or breaks a prop sim for me. Next to FM and graphics and fun factor, of course.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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posted 12-31-1999 07:02 PM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hey, Bigshot, how good is the gamecomander? And other voice stuff?

I've heard of problems with pronounciation (sp?) and voice levels in GC. And simular problems w/RC.

I have to get my wife another PC for a project she's doing and I'm going to be placing a copy of EAW there and set it up so that when she's not using it, a buddy and I can go head to head. I can just hear it now.."Honey can I borrow the computer tonight?"...LOL

Thinking about adding Roger Wilco to this setup, any clues or reviews?

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Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
bucky-s
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posted 12-31-1999 08:06 PM     Profile for bucky-s   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Sarge,

I have the Logitech Wingman Force. It feels great flying the sim, but I have had some problems getting it to read button and POV hat commands.

I finally figured out a fix for this by booting the EAWControl (download it from Combatsim), switching the "Windows Joystick" slide bar to "off" (zero on the slide rule) then back to on (one on the slide rule). I have to do it everytime I boot the sim.

Also, DON'T use the "Run EAW" command in EAWCon. Leave EAWCon running, then run EAW itself from it's own icon.

I have absolutely no idea why I have to go through this rigamarole every time, but I just have to. It's something that took me nearly twenty hours (more, maybe) of trial and failure before finally hammering out.

Hope it helps.

As for the good points of the Force, I like to crank up the effects -- especially the centering spring strength. I have never flown a real plane before, but the centering spring seems to give a realistic feeling of aerodynamic flow against your control surfaces, i.e., the bigger the control input you want to make, the more air resistance you get.

Perhaps in a related point, I have found that my strafing accuracy has improved INCREDIBLY since I moved over to the Force (from ThrustMaster).

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Posts: 179 | From: Shizuoka City, Japan | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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posted 12-31-1999 08:17 PM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bucky,

Interesting point about the GA.

Have you tried setting your stick up first from the Profiler that comes with it? My friend did and then all he had to do was customize the buttons via the EAW config section.

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Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
bucky-s
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posted 12-31-1999 11:34 PM     Profile for bucky-s   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Yes, Mane, I've been there, done that.

I really don't know what the problem is. Force doesn't give me any hassles on any other sims...

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Posts: 179 | From: Shizuoka City, Japan | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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posted 12-31-1999 11:38 PM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hmmm, well let me think on that and try it out at my friends house tomorrow..I'll try to get back to you with an answer.


You do have the latest drivers from Logitech, right?
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Check six & aim for the cockpit.

[This message has been edited by mane_raptor (edited 12-31-1999).]


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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posted 01-01-2000 12:14 AM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bucky,

Thought just came up, what is the windows joystick setting in your EAW ini file?

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Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
bucky-s
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posted 01-01-2000 01:10 AM     Profile for bucky-s   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Mane,

Gotcha! I finally figured out what you meant with your friend's Force set-up.

The lowdown was to DELETE the EAW file I had made, then go looking through the profile that came with the Logitech software. After adopting that, I was a little forlorn to see that, in fact, there were no commands in there AT ALL. So what I did was NOT to edit ANYTHING, then to go into the EAW control configure and open up the Advanced controls. Then, it was a simple (but painful) matter of what ten PRECIOUS commands I could assign to the joystick buttons (no editing, so, alas, no SHIFT button!), then clicking through the list. A rather Spartan list of commands, I must say, but I should be able to take care of the somewhat less essentials with Game Commander.

And that's that. No screwing around with .ini files, no EAWControl, nothing. Just that simple fix.

Thanks for your help! YOU were the one to finally fix this d--n thing!

Bucky

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Posts: 179 | From: Shizuoka City, Japan | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
oneway
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posted 01-01-2000 06:39 AM     Profile for oneway   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Sarge

I cant speak for everyone but for me i will never fly without force feedback again. It has made a big differance in my flying ability.

The force effects in EAW are done very well. Its nice to have them to add to the immersion. Like the stick gets very stiff and starts to shake a little at high speeds.

The 2 biggest things i like are that you can feel a stall coming on through the stick and for me I get more precise control. I can point my nose where i want to much easier with the Logitech Wingman Force.

To me it gives me an advantage that i didnt have before.

The bad part about the Wingman Force is that you cant use a seperate throttle, which is the one reason i put off buying one for so long. Also you can program the buttons but there are not a lot like with thrustmaster HOTAS. But for me as much,as i miss the seperate throttle and more buttons, I can never go back, Seriously.

I have never used the Microsoft FF Stick but i know that with the Logitech stick you can use rudder pedals and Microsoft you cant.


Posts: 373 | From: | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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posted 01-01-2000 09:52 AM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Oneway,

Hold on to your wallet a little longer, A little birdy has told me that the next gen of TM high-end HOTAS will be USB and FF!!!!

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Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 01-01-2000 01:32 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Mane_Raptor; In answer to your question about gamecommander, I just got it for xmas and I think it's great. It's definitely one of those tools that needs to be customized for each individual. We all speak differently so a command that works for me may not work for you. When I first set it up, it was confusing commands. ie; I was calling out "bandits" (tab;six;one) and it would mistake that command for "bailout" HEHEHE. It's a bummer to bailout at 500mph when you're ready to flame the bad guy. Anyway, I changed the "bailout" command to "eject". No problem since. It works about 95 percent of the time on the first command. Just got to speak softly. It's kinda neat sitting on the runway and saying "engine one" "brake" "flaps" and watching the aircraft do everything but throttle up which I do via the throttle on my joystick. After takeoff it's "gear" "retract" "tighten formation".
It's really cool to just say "wingman cover" and hear him answer. Every time I lock a target I give the wingman this command. He gets more kills on my six and I don't have as much trouble with bandits on my six. I never used to use this command because it was so cumbersome with all the key strokes and I never remember which buttons are programed where.
So the long of it is, It's great. One more tool that makes EAW even better. ie; "vector home" "vector bombers" "vector bandits" "everybody bombers" "everybody regroup" everybody fighters" "closest bandit" "target" "all guns" "buddy" "ground target" "next" "drop tanks" "everybody drop tanks" "identify" etc. These commands all work great on first attempt. It's really nice to not have to reach for the key board in the midst of an intense dogfight.
I highly recommend it.

Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
TK
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posted 01-01-2000 05:48 PM     Profile for TK   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Could someone tell me how I can use my Wingman Force throttle with EAW? Currently my throttle goes from full to closed with no intermediate steps. I have EAW 1.2 and Wingman Profiler 3.30.532.

I would also appreciate it if someone could send me their joystick profile for EAW.

Thanks


Posts: 19 | From: Torrance CA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
bucky-s
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posted 01-01-2000 07:11 PM     Profile for bucky-s   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
TK,

Here's what I work with (limited to 10 buttons)

Joystick1: (trigger) fire guns
Joystick2: padlock selected target
Joystick3: player-to-target view
Joystick4: fire selected weapon
Joystick5: target nearest enemy
Joystick6: target view
Joystick7:track next plane (this is an "outside view" that cycles through all planes currently in play)
Joystick8: forward view (return to forward view from any other view setting)
Joystick9: target next enemy (this cycles through potential plane targets)
POV: East, south and west are normal right, rear and left views, respectively, but I made north or "forward" into an instrument snap view because I don't like to use HUD.

Hope you find this helpful.

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Your own personal encounter with the most gorgeous models on the Net absolutely FREE @ http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/alley/6207


Posts: 179 | From: Shizuoka City, Japan | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged

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