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Author Topic: is there replacement for SR-71?
Cormac Mac Art
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posted 07-27-2000 04:32 PM     Profile for Cormac Mac Art   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I was watching a learning channel show on spaceplanes an was wondering the following:

a. since we know the technologies exist that would duplicate\surpass what the blackbird can do and they've been taken "out of service" can we assume a replacement is operating now? It seems (publicly)that only money is the problem? and in the world of black budgets, can't that be overcome?

b. I think the airspike? (one among many types) engine has been proven to work and I've read reports "aurora" related, have mentioned a pulsing type cloud contrails around the world at various times in the last 10+ years. could this be testing of this engine already installed in a real platform of some type?

c. we know that the b-2, f-117, jsf, and the f-22 exist, how long were they designed\flying before the general public got a look?

d. does anybody think thereís a need for a replacement, after all our military says "with
satellite assets we no longer need the SR-71".
I donít buy it.......

what do you folks think?

Cormac


Posts: 20 | From: Minneapolis, MN USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Storm
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posted 07-27-2000 04:55 PM     Profile for Storm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It's my opinion that since the Air Force is leaning toward more of a Space and Air Force, we are using more of the space based intelligence assets. We still have the U-2R "Senior Span" aircraft, as well as the ATARS equipped F/A-18's and the TARPS F-14's. I seriously doubt anything is on the drawing boards, for a follow on to the Blackbird. The government is seriously getting cheap, and will barely pay for the F-22 and F/A-18E/F, nonetheless and new recon platform. I could be wrong, but thats my take on it.

Storm

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"When Gorillas fly, Migs die!" 58th F.S.


Posts: 606 | From: Crestview, Florida USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
HarryM
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posted 07-27-2000 05:34 PM     Profile for HarryM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The black program "Aurora" is supposedly the successor to the SR-71. It has probably been in service since the SR-71 was retired.

The "satellites can do it all" explanation is a cover story. You are at the mercy of the satellites orbit, an aircraft gets there exactly where and when you need it.

Here's a website which has some interesting ideas about Aurora, all unconfirmed, of course.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/aurora.html

This site also interesting. http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.htm

[This message has been edited by HarryM (edited 07-27-2000).]


Posts: 1130 | From: Salinas, CA USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tailspin
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posted 07-27-2000 05:49 PM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I tend to agree with HarryM. The SR-71 was aging,but there really was no good reason to retire them...unless there is something better to replace them with.

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Joke 'em if they can't take a....


Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Sabadin
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posted 07-27-2000 10:08 PM     Profile for Sabadin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If memory serves me right this would be the second time the SR-71 was "retired".
Posts: 85 | From: | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 07-29-2000 07:20 AM     Profile for Scout   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
A month or two ago I spotted a saying from *extremely* trusted and prominent source on one of the newsgroups that referred to a new or secret aircraft design being revealed to general public soon. AFAIK it has not happened. My bet that the guy was referring to "aurora" design.

Cheers,
Scout


Posts: 715 | From: Israel | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Billzilla
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posted 08-12-2000 04:15 PM     Profile for Billzilla   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
FWIW, there have been aircraft tracked into the Navada range decelerating from about Mach 5. Whether or not it's the 'Aurora' is subject to argument, but there *appears* to be no doubt that there are some high speed movers being tested (or operational??) from that part of the world.
Posts: 244 | From: Australia | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Skoonj
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posted 08-12-2000 06:28 PM     Profile for Skoonj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't doubt there are some interesting aircraft coming out of Nevada, possibly mach 5. One cautionary note. I worked in radar at a site on Miyako Jima in the Ryukyu Islands 1971-2. We were close enough to Okinawa to observe SR-71s on our radar. The problem was that although we picked up some of them, altitude and speed information was unreliable. The darned things apparently had onboard ECM systems that really messed with our radar. I swear we had stuff at mach 5 a few times, but it turned out to be false targets.

I don't know what the radar saw or didn't see over Nevada, but it can't be completely relied on.

By the way, I remember another scope anomaly, this one from the Gulf. Remember the Iraqi plane that fired a missile that hit one of our destroyers? I remember the newspaper accounts of controllers from an AWACS plane that saw the Iraqi plane make a turn toward the ship. They said they were laughing at the incompetence of the Iraqi pilot, who the thought nearly stalled his plane into the water on the turn. They said they saw his speed go way down. The problem with that is something I found out really quickly when I worked radar. When a plane is in a tight turn, speed readings from radar are unreliable. They will not give you what is actually happening. When I read what the crew said about it I figured the controllers were real idiots. More so, by actually telling a reporter about it. In so doing, he told the world about a shortcoming of his radar.

Skoonj

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Excelsior, Fathead!
--Jean Shepherd



Posts: 541 | From: Naples, Florida, United States | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Abrams
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posted 08-12-2000 09:47 PM     Profile for Abrams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Skoonj,

The Iraqi plane hit a US Frigate not a Destroyer.

Kinda had to correct you on that one since I was onboard the USS Stark back in 1980's as a weapons officer. Everything you said about the radar is true, except our FCR could "show" more info about the target (we could see if it had something under the wings by certain radar returns). We saw the missile launch but we couldn't do anything about it except wait for impact and hope for the best. Our RoE pretty much said don't fire unless sunk. We couldn't even have our 'defensive measures' ready (no chaff in the launchers and key ready for the R2D2 [CWIS], which was aloud in peacetime conditions).

Anyways.......
I do think there is probably something out there that could replace the SR-71.


Posts: 168 | From: NAS Pensacola, FL, USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bogey
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posted 08-13-2000 06:13 AM     Profile for Bogey   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I recently read that the ionisation around the airframe at hypersonic speeds makes photo recon, radar mapping and sigint impossible. What good would a Mach 6-12 aircraft be then?
Maybe they've found that the SR-71 is nearly as fast as it can get and still be useful...
I don't know at which speeds the ionisations first appear, but maybe someone else here does?

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Up there, where the air is rare...

[This message has been edited by Bogey (edited 08-13-2000).]


Posts: 339 | From: West coast of Sweden | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Billzilla
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posted 08-13-2000 09:10 AM     Profile for Billzilla   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oops!
Skoonj - I forgot to mention that it's anectotal evidence from some geographical group, who can track the super-sonic aircraft by the sound pressure waves as they hit the ground. The SR-71 - apprently - has been tracked fairly well at around M3 by that method, and they reckon that there's something out there that's scooting along around M5+ ...
Apparently there's no radar involved, and as was mentioned above I think that with the plasma effect of the air going over the skin of the plane at those speeds it'd be darn difficult to get a decent return off.
(Working a little like the Soviet anti-radar plasma system, perhaps?)

Posts: 244 | From: Australia | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Skoonj
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posted 08-13-2000 03:16 PM     Profile for Skoonj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Billzilla: Your FCS had an advantage over the AWACS surveillance radar in that it's a narrow beam tracking radar. You would get better info. The surveillance radar wouldn't see it that well. That's why I was wondering why those AWACS guys opened their silly mouths! We never thought much of AWACS in my F-4 unit.

You were with Stark? That must have been a couple of years after it was massively rearranged by the JFK.

Skoonj

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Excelsior, Fathead!
--Jean Shepherd



Posts: 541 | From: Naples, Florida, United States | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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