my profile | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
»  COMBATSIM.COM Forum Archive   » Game Discussions (Title-specific)   » MS Combat Flight Simulator 2   » OT (kind of): Cheating and Cheaters

   
Author Topic: OT (kind of): Cheating and Cheaters
phaeden
Member
Member # 2324

posted 12-13-2000 07:26 PM     Profile for phaeden   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
In addition to flying CFS2, I play Counter-Strike. I have recently seen an increase in the amount of cheating and have composed a paper in response. It is primarily geared toward CS, but it applys to all online games.

Greetings all,

I am a gamer. I have been gaming since Pong. I have been playing Half-Life since its release. I have been playing Counter-Strike since mid-1999 (beta 3). This post will focus on cheating and cheaters in Counter-Strike (v. 1.0).

First, I want to say that I only encountered cheating to a large degree in CS in the last few weeks. I have seen some minor cheats in the past, but since the release of the boxed version, the rate of cheating has increased exponentially. After witnessing so many "amazing" players in CS, I decided to try to track down the source of the problem. I was amazed to learn of the all the available cheats for CS. There are aiming, skin, sounds, and auto-fire cheats (just to name a few). Downloading cheats is a simple affair. Installing them is just as easy. The cheat files include readme files, and online support.

Second, I want to address the root of the problem. There would be no need for these cheat codes if there were not a demand for them. I think that the problem is multifaceted. First, Counter-Strike has a really strong group of hard-core gamers that have been playing for a year (+/-). These veteran gamers are masters of CS. They know the best hides, rates of fire, penetration damage, etc. of all maps and all weapons. They know which character skins provide the best camouflage for each map, and each area within the map. They know which weapons are most effective for each mission. They have formed tightly knit clans that work in teams. These teams seem devastating to the enemy. I have witnessed a team rush of a cheater (skin-changer) and completely dominate the cheater. To my amazement, the cheater exclaimed, "Hey, they're [expletive] cheating." Since there are so many veteran players so adept at CS, the newbies have a very difficult time even scoring one kill. Secondly, these newbies are dominated by the veterans, and as a result seek ways that will "level the playing field."

The cheater (in my opinion) is of the same generation that wants everything right now. He is the gamers that has beat his friends on his Nintendo/Sega/Play Station for months and feels that he should be able to join a CS server and win there as well. But, to his surprise and dismay, there are people on those CS servers that are much better than he is. This is frustrating. He wants to be the best (culturally enforced ideology), therefore he will do anything he can to be "the best." He finds someone that empathizes with him, and is quickly introduced to the subculture of cheaters. He is exposed to a realm that is full of cheats, and more importantly, those that do not criticize him for seeking a cheat code. The reinforcement of this subculture both feeds and bolsters his desire and need to cheat. He is not told that cheating is bad. He is told, instead, that he should go out there and dominate the weaker gamer. He is never taught the skills that the veteran players possess. He denies cheating to opponents and promotes his cheating to his teammates. This seems strange, as the players may be on the opposite team in the next round. Regardless, this cheater continues to cheat, guiding other newbie players to the cheating domains.

The question now is how do we stop cheaters. The answer, in my opinion, is we cannot. The subculture is so infused with the remote-control generation that it would virtually impossible to change their viewpoint. What can honest players do? Unfortunately, not much. Programs like Punkbuster are symbolically significant, but realistically not much of a barrier. I don't believe that cheaters can even comprehend the symbolism. It is no good to ban a cheater as they can "unban" themselves instantly and return with a vengeance. It is futile to tell them to stop acting like a child, because they are. It is futile to try to teach them that cheating is wrong, because they have a limitless number of supporters back at their cheater forum. I think that the veteran players (and non-cheating newbies (bless their hearts)) will have to accommodate the cheater. I know this sounds horrible, but let me explain.

The veterans need to let go of their egos, and allow the newbie to get some kills. The veteran needs to explain the importance of teamwork. The veteran needs to, in essence, become the big brother/father figure to the cheater. Is this fun? No. Is this rewarding? Perhaps in time as it may be the only way to ensure that multiplayer games continue to provide enjoyment to so many gamers. Through compassion, selflessness, and education the veterans can, eventually, teach the cheaters that fair play is much more rewarding and gratifying. I applaud the gamer that performs a beautiful maneuver and kills my player. I scorn the cheater that sees through walls, turns invisible, runs silently after me, fires a sniper rifle with the burst rate of a MP-5, kills me and then repeated binds in, "I OwnZ j00 f00L!!!" Please, cheaters, stop. I will help you become as skilled as I am but you must stop cheating.

I consider myself a good player. On a good day I can average 3 1/2 to 1 kill ratio. I know there are legitimate players that are better. What I am saying is when I constantly see scores of 30-0, I begin to get suspicious.

Counter-Strike is a great game, but we must remember that is just a game. There is no need to "be the best" all the time. I ask of the cheaters that may read this to remove their cheats and try the game for one week. You will see that your scores are terrible, but you will also see how much fun it can be to work as a team and push through a tough ambush. Then, perhaps, you will also see that cheaters are not fun, nor funny.

I encourage your response. If you think I am wrong, tell me way. If you agree, again why?

Semper Fi,
Phaeden
a.k.a. Gold_Jump_Wings


Posts: 85 | From: Oceanside, California | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mshock44
Member
Member # 6900

posted 12-13-2000 08:26 PM     Profile for Mshock44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CS is dead. Long Live Something Else!
Cheaters have made CS to suck. Punkbuster makes CS suck. It was my pick for game of the year last year, almost made it again this year.
The sad fact is that it really doesn't reflect poorly on Goose or any of the CS team, but rather on the community of CS players themselves. It took me two months of playing to get to the point where I could hold my own then attain a regular winning record, so newness is no excuse (cause the real problem is disenterest or impacience, either way don't ruin it for the rest of us).
I remember the same thing happening on Jedi Knight, and it DID kill the online community for that game.
The end is near, barring some revolutionary new security innovation, or vast improvement to the transparentness of punkbuster to non-cheaters.

I think I will try Strike Force 1.60 when it comes out, 1.50 was good, just need to fix the net code to be a bit faster. It will take a while for the punks to ruin it, or maybe Tribes 2, who knows?


Posts: 189 | From: | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
loafer87gt
Member
Member # 1036

posted 12-13-2000 09:13 PM     Profile for loafer87gt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I used to absolutely love CS, but I just get pissed off playing it now with all the different scripts and cheats. Teleporting, headshots, invisibility, its just no fun anymore. I really hope they come with a server side patch that fixes things up
Posts: 98 | From: | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Fender
Member
Member # 2054

posted 12-13-2000 09:19 PM     Profile for Fender   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Has anyone heard about "Day of Defeat" (DoD) for Half-Life? It's a WWII mod for half-life that has been a long time in development and is going to release it's first version in a couple of weeks I would guess. Check it out at http://www.dayofdefeatmod.com I bet it will be popular.
Posts: 179 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
RedHawk44
Member
Member # 8485

posted 12-13-2000 11:13 PM     Profile for RedHawk44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I used to be a big CS player also. But the cheating has gotten so out of hand that you can't tell the good players from the cheaters. It is still fun to play sometimes, but just knowing that there are so many cheats and cheat sites out there that it makes it so much less appealing that it once was. I do hope they someday fix it, but that is just what happens when a game gets as popular as CS. The demise of CS has definately increase my devotion back to flight sims like CFS2.
http://www.geocities.com/cry_baby_killer

Posts: 28 | From: | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Derek
Member
Member # 2328

posted 12-14-2000 12:55 AM     Profile for Derek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi,
I agree with all of the above. But I would add one word of caution, which is, are we always sure someone is 'cheating?'
Let me explain. A couple of nights ago I was
on the Zone flying in CFS2 with some other
guys, when someone typed that they could not
shoot me down, even though they filled my
aircraft with enough lead to turn my Zero
into a stringed vest! In addition, I too had
the same problem in the same game, but I
initially put it down to my bad marksmanship.
I was then branded as a 'cheat', even though I wasn't, and to be honest I do not really see the point to cheating, when the whole objective of dogfighting is to see if you can better the other pilot through sheer skill! (By the way I also have a legitimate
copy of CFS2).
As a side issue, when I did get shot down and was rejuvinated, I would get shot down almost immediately again, even though there was nobody in my vicinity!!!
So my point is, when it comes to CFS2, do we have an innate software problem?
Any thoughts would be welcomed.

Kind Regards,
Derek.


Posts: 33 | From: Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpinDry
Member
Member # 7379

posted 12-14-2000 07:07 AM     Profile for SpinDry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That was net lag, pure and simple. Happens in all the online sims. The bullets just took a while to catch up to you, and did so after you'd re-spawned.
Posts: 296 | From: Rome, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
TG
Member
Member # 3641

posted 12-14-2000 09:26 AM     Profile for TG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thats why it always amazes me that MS and other newer Multiplay capable Sim developers don't include COOP multiplay in their list of features.

I mean how many Mayhems are enough already?
How many cheats before it just gets boring.
It is supposed to be fun but it is not.

What kind of fun is it to be shot down by a star trek airplane with cannon shells the size of footballs?

There is no solution except to know who is honest and who might be suspicious and steer clear of the ones that might be cheating.

Cheaters will always be a problem. Be picky about who you fly with. Fly sims that have real cheat protection and cooperative Multiplay whenever possible.
THere is less incentive to cheat in a team oriented environment as compared to an egotistical ME vs You deal.

Only way to know this is to be picky and not jump into vast multiplayer arenas like the MSzone. (I hate that place)

IT tends to get so polluted at the zone that even a fair and square win can bring shouts of cheater! Not worth it.

Im really suprised that Microsoft got it so right on flight modeling in general and immersion factor and damage modeling, eye candy etc.. yet could be so hoplessly out of touch with human nature in Multiplayer issues.
Apparently they don't give a danm about quality multiplayer support for their cfs2.



Posts: 359 | From: SOmerville, NJ USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
ramstein
Member
Member # 5667

posted 12-14-2000 02:28 PM     Profile for ramstein   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
On Kali, the class of people is way above that of those on the zone, no, not snottiness, but a class of people who are not known as, thought of, or proven as cheaters. I am talking flight sims, I do not know about the other games.
Posts: 71 | From: San Diego | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged

All times are MST (US)  

   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | COMBATSIM.COM Home

COMBATSIM.COM, INC. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin Board 6.04b

Sponsor
2014 COMBATSIM.COM - All Rights Reserved