my profile | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
»  COMBATSIM.COM Forum Archive   » Game Discussions (Title-specific)   » MS Combat Flight Simulator 2   » Cowl Flaps n Dive Brakes - where?

   
Author Topic: Cowl Flaps n Dive Brakes - where?
MagenDavid
Member
Member # 3784

posted 11-28-2000 06:49 AM     Profile for MagenDavid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
pardon my ignorance but what are Cowl Flaps n where are they? Also, where can i find the Dive Brakes on the plane. I activated them on the Corsair from the throttle panel but I dont see anything move on the plane in external view..

thks..


Posts: 413 | From: | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Speedbrake
Member
Member # 2011

posted 11-28-2000 07:25 AM     Profile for Speedbrake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Cowl flaps are located to the rear of the engine cowling (cover). They open and close to allow more or less cooling air flowing through the engine area and hence around the engine cylinders. Shift-E opens them in increments. Also they can be opened and closed by F5 throttle quad. Take a look at the area to the real of the engine skin bulge and they open the cowl flaps fully and look again. It may bepend on the level of detail you have set for the sim.

Dive brakes or air brakes are the WWII version of speedbrakes. If you look at the underside of the wing flap on one of the dive bombers you will see what looks like a flap with many holes in it. That is the dive brake. I'm not sure they work in this simulation - program bug or forgotten line of code. Shift-D should delpoy and undeploy them but I have yet to see them work. The function is simular to a speedbrake but I believe they were only used during dive weapon deliveries to keep the aircraft within it's speed envelope.


Posts: 310 | From: Fort Worth, TX USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpinDry
Member
Member # 7379

posted 11-28-2000 07:43 AM     Profile for SpinDry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I believe that if you're flying the Dauntless and activate the speed brakes you will see a sudden and marked decrease in airspeed. IMHO that's the only crate they took pains to model the dive brakes for, and since it was released as an AI mount they didn't feel the moving parts were necessary. I've tried activating "spoilers/dive brakes" in the .air file for other birds but have yet to see anything notable, so methinks there's more to the FM process than such a naive effort.

FM gurus? Care to speak out and share?

Spinny


Posts: 296 | From: Rome, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Storm
Member
Member # 1480

posted 11-28-2000 07:47 AM     Profile for Storm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The P-38 also had dive breaks, as at high speeds, the aircraft was known for it's compressability. So..dive flaps/breaks were added after a few pilots discovered the flaw in design. I've not seen these in the game either.

Storm


Posts: 606 | From: Crestview, Florida USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
SpinDry
Member
Member # 7379

posted 11-28-2000 07:58 AM     Profile for SpinDry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah, I'm with you there. My comment wasn't to say the SBD was the only one that used them, it was an indictment of M$ for acting as though that were the case. One of my main FM experiment areas has been trying to get some sort of dive brakes to work in the P-38 model, and thus far my success has been zip. Still looking/hoping, though. Augered another Lightning yesterday, test-flying one of my P-38J mods, for the same reason they put those tabs on the bird: 460-knot lockup and boom. Maybe the trick will be to increase the effect of up-elevator trim. Hmm ...


Posts: 296 | From: Rome, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpinDry
Member
Member # 7379

posted 11-28-2000 08:32 AM     Profile for SpinDry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
On cowl flaps ...

Aside from the nice visual effect I'm not sure M$ even modeled them into the game. The idea was, at full military power (not to mention WEP) the radials had a tendancy to overheat too quickly. Opening the flaps increased parasitic drag but increased cooling airflow so they could run at full power longer before one had to throttle back or blow a seal. I'm not even sure you can overheat the radials in CFS2, with or without the cowl flaps.


Posts: 296 | From: Rome, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Vancouver
Member
Member # 6550

posted 11-28-2000 11:24 AM     Profile for Vancouver     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The cowl flaps do work to cool your engine. However, as SpinDry said, I have yet to see any adverse effects from an overheated engine.

Posts: 147 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Aviar
Member
Member # 3297

posted 11-28-2000 11:59 AM     Profile for Aviar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I mainly fly the Corsair but I do have dive brakes on my hog. I think I activated something in the .air file. It only slows the plane a few knots and the nose drops but it's better than nothing. Also, there are no visual or aural cues.

Aviar


Posts: 196 | From: Bergen County, NJ USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Essel
Member
Member # 8011

posted 11-28-2000 12:24 PM     Profile for Essel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, the Corsair airbrakes work w/ the stock aircraft. It's too bad it isn't animated, it would have been easy: Speed brakes on the F4U was actually the front landing gear (!) It was built to sustain a dive. When activated, the front ldg gear would deploy, but the tailwheel stayed stowed, at it could not sustain dive speeds.
Maybe one of you mod gurus could do something about this?

Posts: 34 | From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Giovanni
Member
Member # 8222

posted 11-28-2000 06:40 PM     Profile for Giovanni   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Only the P-38J and later had the divebrakes.
Posts: 5 | From: Alaska | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Storm
Member
Member # 1480

posted 11-29-2000 04:22 AM     Profile for Storm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yea, I remember the dive breaks on the Corsair, that Air Warrior modelled. The first time I used them in a dive, it freaked me out hearing my gear deploy, until I remembered that was where they were.

As for the P-38J starting the dive breaks, are you sure?? Not calling you a liar, just interested. Thanks.

Storm


Posts: 606 | From: Crestview, Florida USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
MagenDavid
Member
Member # 3784

posted 11-29-2000 05:54 AM     Profile for MagenDavid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
thanks guys..


Posts: 413 | From: | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpinDry
Member
Member # 7379

posted 11-29-2000 07:15 AM     Profile for SpinDry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yep. The first production Lightnings with the electric dive brakes started with P-38J-25-LO (Model 422-81-23). Now, as far back as the last runs of the F model they had combat flaps added with 8 degrees of extension to tighten turns, and I forget just when they also added extra trim tabs to the elevator to help "dial out" of a compressed dive. All those extra add-ons could easily confuse one's memory. The Lightning was quite a test bed!
Posts: 296 | From: Rome, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged

All times are MST (US)  

   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | COMBATSIM.COM Home

COMBATSIM.COM, INC. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin Board 6.04b

Sponsor
2014 COMBATSIM.COM - All Rights Reserved