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Author Topic: Hehe, just wait till you poor buggers get B17-2 on your HD's
Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-25-2000 10:15 PM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think a large number of you will consign this CFS2 turkey to the shelf.

Don't flame me, I've got B17-2 and I'm smitten, even with the CTD problem. So far, one patch needed for B17-2, a couple of hundred for CFS2.


Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
LhW
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posted 11-25-2000 10:24 PM     Profile for LhW   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Please don't speak for me!

I will take the sniper single-quick mission approach over the shotgun-all-over-the-place-key-command-campaign of B17-II any day.

It takes too long to remove a bearing factory from the motherland than it does to poke some holes in one of the Emporer's zeros!

A personality thing for sure!

Enjoy!!

- LhW


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Vancouver
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posted 11-25-2000 10:45 PM     Profile for Vancouver     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'll see for myself next week sometime. In the meantime, I'm seeing a worrying number of complaints about stability, framerates, graphics, gameplay and system requirements. These may all be teething problems but it's still concerning.

More damaging gameplay problems typically don't start appearing until the game has been out for a week or so, once the initial novelty has worn off and people start exploring the depths of the game. That's when we'll start getting an indication of whether this game has legs.


Posts: 147 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Krusty the Brave
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posted 11-25-2000 11:36 PM     Profile for Krusty the Brave   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Siggi!
Post a pic of the B17 cocpit view...you know...the one you use to fly from...hang on matey?....does it have one?...Oh well, guess i'll stick with Combat Flight SIMULATOR 2

Peace love and flowers

KRUSTY!

Posts: 26 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
SilverFox441
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posted 11-25-2000 11:49 PM     Profile for SilverFox441   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I just love the MP in B-17II, oh wait....MicroPatch (the company formally known as MicroProse) decided to squash it.

Oh Well...guess the prize still goes to the finished sim.


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Aviar
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posted 11-25-2000 11:50 PM     Profile for Aviar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Personally, I will never buy B-17 II. Why? Because it simply does not interest me.

I consider myself pretty much of a flight-sim fanatic. I've bought (and returned some) just about every flight sim in the past 7 years.

I LIKE bombers! I like to escort them. I like to shoot them down. I have very little interest in flying one. I enjoy dogfighting. I enjoy strafing ground targets. I even enjoy low-level bombing\rocket attacks.

I don't enjoy flying level at 10,000 ft. and yelling "bombs away!".(yawn) I'm not interested in ordering my radioman to give first-aid to the navigator.(double yawn)

I'm not bashing B-17 II, the game. Actually, it might benefit us all if it sold well. Instead, I'm saying that the 'concept' is not very appealing. I don't think there will be much interest, even among flight sim enthusiasts. My guess is that there will be a small hardcore following (if the game is any good).

People can come here and bash CFS2 and praise another flight sim all they want. It doesn't impress me. My only questions are, why do they keep coming back here and why aren't they playing the 'other' sim? I think most people know the answer. BTW, that was only a rhetorical question(s). Don't bother answering, as I'm not interested in you or your sim.

Aviar


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JT
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posted 11-26-2000 12:02 AM     Profile for JT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry, Siggi, but this...

001011011001010010100100100001001
110101001010011100100010011010011
100101101110110100101101000101100

... is not an opponent.

I want to fight an opponent that can think.


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Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-26-2000 12:05 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ooh, ducky!

I dare you to just try it, when you get the chance. What is the key ingredient? Immersion. I have always been a Luftwaffe fighter-pilot fanatic, absolutely no interest in allied fighters, let alone bombers...but this one has got me hooked.


Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
von_M
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posted 11-26-2000 12:11 AM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jv44~Siggi:
I think a large number of you will consign this CFS2 turkey to the shelf.

Don't flame me, I've got B17-2 and I'm smitten, even with the CTD problem. So far, one patch needed for B17-2, a couple of hundred for CFS2.


Ahh poor ole Siggi.
Comparing CFS2 and B17-II is like comparing apples and oranges.

CFS2 is fighter oriented, B17-II is bomber centered.

CFS2 is expandable, B17-2 is not (at this point).

CFS2 has MP (albiet poor), B17-2 has none.

CFS2 is PTO, B17-2 is ETO.

CFS2 is more or less stable when it comes to hardware problems, and requires a patch more for its immersive qualities. B17-2 is the opposite, requiring no patch for "the little things", but needing one for the CTD's, and other problems.

Give it time before you make any rash judgements on B17-II.

I remember one of your first posts here.. Titled "I'm blown away" http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum62/HTML/000831.html

quote:
Originally posted by Jv44~Siggi:
Picked it up from EB one and a half hours ago.

Hats off to the MS crew, this one is the dog's bollocks. Incredible, absolutely incredible.

From SWotL to this, in seven years...



Quite a change eh?

I have no doubt B17-2 is an excellent sim (and I might get it if I can scrounge up some money for an extra 128 megs of RAM), but it is very different from CFS2.

I'm sure they can both reside side-by-side on the same harddrive without destroying each other

CFS2 is good for a quick flight before work, when you have the need to shoot down nips. B17-II is better suited for after work, when you have time to invest in a 8 hour mission.

M

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Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


Posts: 459 | From: London, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
von_M
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posted 11-26-2000 12:26 AM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I personally have nothing against B17-II, or anything for CFS2. Kind of neutral about both, so I won't try to defend or attack either. Just to remind you

I am also a Luftwaffe fanatic, as is Siggi, (been in JG52, EAW squadron for over a year) so B17-II not having a fighter campaign (so I could shoot down AI B17's) or MP (so I could shoot down human controlled B17's) was a blow. However, I like bombers. When I flew AH for the 3 week trial I mostly flew the B17. In JG52 I'm the 110 JaBo leader (yes I know, not a bomber in the purest sense of the word, but a bomber nonetheless).

CFS2 isn't the end all be all of sims. And niether is B17-II. But I will try them eventually, to experience what it's like to be a bomber pilot in the ETO, or a jap pilot in PTO. Or in Il-2's case, a Russian pilot on the vast steppes of Russia.

I like to broaden my sim horizons.

Must.. resist.. urge to.. rant.. further..

------------------
Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


Posts: 459 | From: London, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
von_M
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posted 11-26-2000 12:36 AM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JT:
Sorry, Siggi, but this...

001011011001010010100100100001001
110101001010011100100010011010011
100101101110110100101101000101100

... is not an opponent.

I want to fight an opponent that can think.


Ahh, but was is human thought? A series of electron bursts that mimic the binary patterns of 1's and 0's..

Maybe the computer is simply an incubation stage for the human mind, before it occupies the body after birth..


(It is late here, so give me a break )

quote:
Originally posted by Jv44~Siggi:
Ooh, ducky!

I dare you to just try it, when you get the chance. What is the key ingredient? Immersion. I have always been a Luftwaffe fighter-pilot fanatic, absolutely no interest in allied fighters, let alone bombers...but this one has got me hooked.


I will try it, eventually.
What are your feelings on Battle of Britian? Seems to have an interesting campaign system. And huge numbers of planes to boot!

------------------
Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


Posts: 459 | From: London, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
von_M
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posted 11-26-2000 12:40 AM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, I am trying to boost the number of posts I have by not making one huge post


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Aviar
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posted 11-26-2000 01:09 AM     Profile for Aviar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
von_M,

We'll have to check the archives, but I think you just broke the record for consecutive posts!

Aviar


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von_M
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posted 11-26-2000 01:13 AM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Darn.. didn't have time to add another

------------------
Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


Posts: 459 | From: London, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-26-2000 03:52 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Picked it up from EB one and a half hours ago.
Hats off to the MS crew, this one is the dog's bollocks. Incredible, absolutely incredible.

From SWotL to this, in seven years...

As I've said a few times already, that was based on a) the graphics and b) the naive assumption that any crew capable of coding such graphics would hardly saddle them with sub-par game-play.

I was suckered by stunning graphics, but it didn't take me long to catch on. Blame it on too many years without a decent SP sim...I was ripe for an over-enthusiastic outburst.

B17-2, I've done instant-action, single missions and campaign missions. I've mastered the commands (sublimely logical and well-ordered, if not immediately intuitive) and have it running smooth will max detail at 1024 x 768.

You would not believe the attention to detail, and I'm not talking simply about the range of a/c controls. This isn't just a sim, it's also an interactive movie.



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plummerx
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posted 11-26-2000 04:39 AM     Profile for plummerx   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes i can't wait siggi, there is even a 50-50 chance it will actually install and run at this point. Better odds than vegas.
Posts: 570 | From: Graham WA USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Wasp
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posted 11-26-2000 05:59 AM     Profile for Wasp   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Siggi,
Some questions for you, mate.
1.Have you managed to fly the 262 yet? (I can't get mine to appear, despite clicking on it !)
2.Does your Lightning have a gunsight ?
3.Are you finding fighter aircraft tricky to fly?
Regards
Wasp

------------------
Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
The one hope of the doomed is not to hope for safety.
Virgil's Aeneid
http://www.raf123uk.co.uk/


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Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-26-2000 10:34 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No, haven't tried the 262 yet (that says something about this sim!).
P-38 has no reticule on the glass.
I have no probs flying those fighters I've tried thus far...P-38, P-47, 109 and 190.

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TG
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posted 11-26-2000 12:43 PM     Profile for TG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I cant believe MP released a game that is not stable?
CTD's right out of the box?
Oh man here we go again.

Posts: 359 | From: SOmerville, NJ USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
johnnyig
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posted 11-26-2000 07:15 PM     Profile for johnnyig   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
B17 II in plane views are sad.........very sad. exterior shots are incredible but who fights from outside the plane????? unless they can create new interior shots its downright pitiful, what a waste. Fighter interiors are a little better, but EAW still has the game beat. -John
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Vancouver
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posted 11-26-2000 09:05 PM     Profile for Vancouver     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Now Siggi, you're not being completely truthful about not having any problems, are you? On the bombs-away.net forums, you've been complaining about framerates and CTDs. In fact, you and a lot of other people are having so many problems with the game and there's so much uncertainty around whether it will be patched, that you're already debating whether you ought to return it.

I know you've backed yourself into a corner regarding B-17II, hyping it to the moon and trolling about it in here, but seriously, give up the pretense. It's seriously flawed.

...

Just checked the bombs-away.net forums again and see that you have actually shelved it and are back playing Red Baron now. That's two of the quickest 180s I've ever seen.

[This message has been edited by Vancouver (edited 11-26-2000).]


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Warspite
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posted 11-26-2000 11:21 PM     Profile for Warspite   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There is nothing wrong for liking B-17 I never played it yet but it looks really fun. About time we get a bomber simulation! Heck I have been waiting since the old Intellivision days

But however, I certainly will NOT forget CFS2 when and if I get B-17. These are two entirely different games. Me I enjoy the Pacific Theater stuff and CFS2 is the best I have ever had the pleasure of owning. I think the mission builder is excellent and the expandability of CFS2 is beyond incredible! This is quality that is so far unmatched by any other sim of its kind.

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think B-17 will have any kind of mission builder. Also it will not be expandable.

I just got F/A-18 a few days ago(finally and I love it!) but there is no way I can compare that with CFS2. Just like B-17 is not the game to compare CFS2 to.

At last, von_M you are more then right

------------------
-Warspite-

CFS2 Mission Storage Page
http://hometown.aol.com/warspite2


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OldFrenchy
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posted 11-27-2000 12:38 AM     Profile for OldFrenchy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CFS2 has it's share of problems, but it hasn't done a CTD on me yet. It's those damn wingies crashing into each other and drinking on the job...

OldFrenchy


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Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-27-2000 03:49 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Vancouver, are YOU trolling? My first post above was 25th, early hours UK time. My posts re Red Baron were just a few hours ago, 27th. After many hours of testing on two PC's I was tired and dis-spirited.

I believe B17-2 requires just ONE critical patch, to fix the leaking-memory CTD problem. Any other minor 'buglets' are easily ignorable when considering the overall excellence of the sim.

We are now waiting to hear from Wayward re the patch. The problem, for me, is that I'm a dedicated real-time mission flyer. Obviously, having the game CTD after a few hours in front of the PC somewhat destroys my ability to enjoy the game, but it doesn't mean the game per-se is crap. This is the most engaging and immersive sim I've played since RB2-3D.

As for CFS2, that is a totally different kettle of fish. One could say it's the absolute opposite of B17-2. It has ONE feature of note (the eye candy) with everything ELSE needing a patch. It's campaign is a farce, shallow, unrealistic and historically flawed.

After paying 30 for CFS2, only to find it unplayable, I did despair somewhat last night, tired and frustrated, at the thought that another 30 might have gone the same way with B17-2. These constant problems with PC games start to wear one down after a couple of years...you get hyped up with anticipation, only to be let down by either a whole raft of inadequacies (CFS2) or one critical flaw (B17-2).

To sum-up...B17-2 is an absolute masterpiece with just ONE critical flaw rendering it unplayable for me in serious campaign mode.
CFS2 is a shallow farce with just ONE good point that can in no way compensate for it's myriad other failings.

If Wayward/hasblo dump on us and fail to deliver a patch you can laugh in my face. If they DO fix it, I'll be the one having the last laugh.

Now off you go, I hear you have an appoinment with some dog-fighting Betties. Be sure you don't get a scratch on your cowling, I hear it cripples the roll-rate.


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von_M
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posted 11-27-2000 04:11 PM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So all you're expecting to be fixed is the CTD's?

What about the fact that B17-II is a resource hog. Even without the CTD's how much immersion can you get when enemy planes stutter across the screen as you try to track them in your turret?

Or the poor detail of the inside of the bomber on some V2's.

Or terrain that you can see being drawn in.

Or how the dogfighting is unplayable because of the low FPS..

Or enemy planes that magically respawn wings after losing them?

Or how crew members get injured if you time skip.

On the other hand, the campaign in CFS2 can be fixed, people are already making new ones. The screens can also be changed (no more comic book interface, etc). MP will never be fixed in CFS2, I'm sure of that. Nor will any patches be released. So the only hope for CFS2 lies in the mod'ers to fix the "porked" damage model, and various other 'little things.'

Don't take me wrong though, I certainly do hope that they can fix all the problems with B17-II (I do plan on buying it). But with Hasblo's record, they may cut off support to WW before it's complete. Just like what happened to Panzer Elite.

Siggi, you should at least wait until everything settles down before coming here and preaching the ways of B17-II

------------------
Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


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Kanine_Wsivelod
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posted 11-27-2000 04:41 PM     Profile for Kanine_Wsivelod   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There was probably a time when I myself was as enthusiastic about B17 2 when I heard of it's existance. I was very excited to know something new was coming along, but then i learned that there was to be no Multi-Player and the Resources would be hogged by its marvelous graphics, now I only have a AMD k6 233/ with 96 mb of RAM and a Voodoo3 2000 card..........I am lucky to run CFS2 the way i do....CFS2 has its bugs, but also has my vote.......

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No bee-sting hurt as much as adolesence.- Twas' I who said that.
I am a dork, I don't try to be cool; it just doesn't work out.- Dave Grohl
Mom: Oscar, son, will you ever stop spending ALL of your time on those flying games?!?!
Me: Never say never, but probably never......


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Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-27-2000 05:18 PM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What about the fact that B17-II is a resource hog. Even without the CTD's how much immersion can you get when enemy planes stutter across the screen as you try to track them in your turret?
For some strange reason, the fighters attacking the bombers don't stutter. Go figure, it puzzles me too.

Or the poor detail of the inside of the bomber on some V2's.
Want to play cutting-edge sims? Get a cutting-edge card, or don't complain.

Or terrain that you can see being drawn in.
Ditto CFS2.

Or how the dogfighting is unplayable because of the low FPS..
Nothing to do with FPS. It's a rendering problem, not an FPS one. The FPS is fine, but the planes have a 'ghost' image that follows close behind them. When the ghost image turns on and off at high-speed the plane appears to stutter.

Or enemy planes that magically respawn wings after losing them?
It's rarely noticeable, one is normally too busy dealing with the next threat to watch a plane go down. And it's not as if the plane starts flying around again, it still crashes. Dogfighting Betties, on the other hand, really DO trash the immersion level.

Or how crew members get injured if you time skip.
This is not a bug. Some crew members are tougher than others and do not immediately react to wounds. If you are time-skipping thru the point where they do start to holler the sim drops back into real time to allow the player to deal with the event.

Fighter combat is not the main thrust of B17-2, thus the stuttering fighters can be lived with. As long as the axis fighters attacking the bombers run well we can truthfully say this BOMBER sim's functions are as advertised.

So, again, only ONE critical patch required. One for the stuttering fighters would be very well received, but I can live without fighter-vs-fighter combat in this most excellent BOMBER SIM.


Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
brp51d
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posted 11-27-2000 05:33 PM     Profile for brp51d   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jv44~Siggi-What are your system specs? I have B172 on the way and wonder from these posts whether it will run ok on my system-K62-500-192mbram-voodoo4 4500 agp. It sounds like agood sim. Cfs2 is very good in my opinion but I have been looking foward to b17
Posts: 9 | From: NY,usa | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
brp51d
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posted 11-27-2000 05:35 PM     Profile for brp51d   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
One more question- please explain the ctd problem-does this happen frequently or only after playing along time?
Posts: 9 | From: NY,usa | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
von_M
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posted 11-27-2000 05:46 PM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Fair enough Siggi.

I'm not a CFS2 fanatic, so I won't try and "defend" CFS2 further or "attack" B17-II.

I'm a flight sim fanatic, darn it! I want the genre to succeed and expand. I've purchased every flight sim ever made in the past few years just to help the industry. I even purchased SDOE, which I never fly because its FM is as twitchy as heck. And WW2Fighters, which I do fly once in a while just for the ground attack action. Never kept Luftwaffe Commander though, I returned it two days later.

I doubt we'll be seeing another strategic bomber sim (IL-2 is purely tactical) in a while if B17-II does poorly. That would be a shame considering the possibilities, flying B24's out of Italy, B29's in the Pacific, or even B-52 against the USSR (a guy can dream can't he?).

I do hope that there is a patch released to fix the few (larger) bugs present in B17-II.
And it does seem that a patch is in the making. Hopefully Hasbro will support further developments of B17-II, and not just force them to make one patch.

------------------
Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


Posts: 459 | From: London, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Vancouver
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posted 11-27-2000 05:56 PM     Profile for Vancouver     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Siggi,

My copy arrived today, and I'll spend the next few days playing around with it to see for myself.

It's early days. People have only just started to scratch the surface. You know as well as anyone that the real problematic gameplay bugs, the ones that make or break a game, typically don't surface until the game has been run through the wringer a few times.

Given all of the problems out of the box, it seems safe to say that it didn't undergo much in the way of thorough quality assurance testing. If there are fundamental problems with things as bacic as stability and the rendering engine, can you be confident that there aren't horrendous gameplay bugs lurking in the code as well? Well, maybe you can. I can't. In fact, I expect that there will be more than a fair share of them.


Posts: 147 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-28-2000 12:06 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
My system specs:

Asus P3V4X
P3-800e
CLAP DDR
398Mb RAM
SB-Live
5200rpm HD

CTD problem. It seems to be happening mostly when changing views/going to another station.
There are a few theories; over a period of time the RAM is getting choked, due to not flushing-out used data. This then causes the virtual memory on the HD to be accessed. People who have capped their VM, and increased it's size, report fewer CTD's, but still get them. This led to a second theory that people with slower HD's still get CTD's because the game's data-request speed sometimes exceeds the HD's ability to deliver.

The rendering problem with fighters is a code problem, imo, but why it doesn't also effect bomber-vs-fighter I don't know.

Some people are also experiencing invisible crew members.

Voodoos seem to render the 2D backdrops poorly, ditto instruments (blurry), though OK in zoom-mode.

In three missions on my main HD I have experienced only two CTD's, one of those after five hours in a real-time mission.

I formatted a second spare drive and installed Win98SE and all the recommended drivers, a bare-bones set-up just for B17-2. I have to power-down and unplug/plug the two drives, but have had no probs with two full missions, done with time-skipping, so far.

As far as I'm concerned the CTD's are due to a memory management problem, combined with slower HD's compounding the situation. My HD thrashed seconds before CTD, others have reported similarly. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.
The rendering may be harder if it's code-related.

Despite these probs, no major game-play issues have appeared yet. And the sound is one of the best features. I have a 5-speaker Kenwood stereo into which my PC is wired and the whole room shakes when the flak starts going off. Dull booms, sharp cracks, sound of shrapnel lashing the air-frame...it's incredible.
Eye-candy...plenty. Different to CFS2's but as good.

Little details...crew falling out of broken bombers...voice coming over radio as B17 goes down in flames, "Come on guys, get out...BAIL OUT..."
Ahh...too many to cope with! Hehe.

Immersion factor...100% But you HAVE to fly in real time to get the full effect. Time skip totally spoils the immersion factor. You don't have time to get bored...on realistic settings you even HAVE to navigate or the pilot gets lost.

Manual winding open of the bomb-bay doors if damaged by flak, ditto undercart. Manual prop-feathering, manual piloting when the bird is too crippled for the AI pilot to handle (they get better as the missions progress, more so if you have done their job for them and improved their experience-stats).
Fully functional Norden, navigator has to work in conjunction with bombardier to get best results from it.
Navigator can shift waypoints in-flight, radio operator can order height changes to avoid flak.
Crew walk around in real time thru the bomber, give first-aid, carry-out repairs, put-out fires, all viewable in real time.

NO scripted events. Damage model is dynamic and physics-generated, ditto FM.

Possible bomb bug, other planes sometimes don't drop their bombs, or if they do they don't go off...might be a deliberate function to stop every target from being totally destroyed first time, every time.

Wiggly tracers...pukka!

I can talk this sim up a storm, but you won't really know what I'm on about until you have tried it yourselves. It's one of those rare programs where everything gels just so. Near perfection.


Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
JT
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Member # 310

posted 11-28-2000 12:47 AM     Profile for JT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't know if this is correct, but someone told me that tracers don't look squiggly in real life. They only appear squiggly when captured on gun cam. If that's true, then they probably should have gone with straight looking tracers... but no biggie, I guess.
Posts: 200 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Aviar
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Member # 3297

posted 11-28-2000 01:02 AM     Profile for Aviar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Who are you and what have you done with the real Siggi? You know, the raving lunatic that was banned from this forum for one week. Or maybe you just remembered to take your Prozac today.

I'm still not buying this sim but I enjoyed the post.

Siggi, maybe you should have two log-on names. One for the out-of-control, doesn't-think before-he-speaks knucklehead and one for the articulate, concise and mature simmer. This way I wouldn't have to waste my time opening any posts from 'knucklehead'.

I'm out.

Aviar


Posts: 196 | From: Bergen County, NJ USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Vancouver
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Member # 6550

posted 11-28-2000 01:05 AM     Profile for Vancouver     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Got it, installed it, played it for a couple of hours. End result: two missions, two CTDs. Both times when switching crew positions.

Experienced the same stuttering framerate others have mentioned in the top and ball turrets and roughly 2 second pauses when switching crew positions. Didn't try the fighters. Can't comment on flight models, damage models, gameplay, immersion, etc so far, since I don't have enough game time.

Graphics are adequate, stylized instead of photorealistic and will take some getting used to. I still need to adjust the gamma and colour balance because the colours look very saturated at the moment. I feel like I'm flying over (or in) a cartoon, which detracts from the experience considerably.

Sounds are good.

Pre-rendered crew positions are, again, stylized and of lower quality than I had anticipated. Don't like them much but that's personal taste. Would like to be able to walk around inside the bomber instead of just fixed views. Oh well.

Crew animation reminds me of Rainbow Six. Interesting to see in a flight sim but not ground-breaking. Crew voices are good and add to the atmosphere, though some of the voice acting is awful. Then again, it always is in games. Don't know how broad the repertoire is.

Not sure if this really can be classed as a flight sim. It might be more of a 3D tactical/strategy game instead since there doesn't seem to be much "flying" involved - tried the pilot position but the views available don't lend themselves to an immersive flying experience. They seem to be designed more for aircraft systems management than flying. Fair enough I suppose, just a different focus.

[email protected]
384MB PC-133 SDRAM
Windows managed VM
Asus GeForce 256 32MB
SB Live! Value
2.2 GB free space on my C: HDD (4.2GB 5400rpm)
Game installed on my E: drive (15.3 GB free space, 7200rmp)

Will try again tomorrow when I have more time to tweak my system.


Posts: 147 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
gatt
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Member # 123

posted 11-28-2000 06:36 AM     Profile for gatt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Siggi,
out of curiosity, what do you think about "B17-II" fighters flight models? I'd like to know if we are talking about the same simulation ...


Posts: 20 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jv44~Siggi
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Member # 7455

posted 11-28-2000 07:39 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Somebody else described them well...somewhere between EAW's and CFS2's. There are no violent departures, but accelerated stalls are worse than low-speed ones. I've done most of my testing in the P-47. Low speed stall, it just mushes the nose down. Accelerated stall it rolls hard left and noses down. Have not experienced anything even close to a spin, even when trying to induce one, but I HAVE seen AI controlled planes in vicious spins, from high altitude right into the deck, both axis and allied.
Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
gatt
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Member # 123

posted 11-28-2000 08:47 AM     Profile for gatt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ok, we play the same sim Yes, I saw them spinning their a/c and regain control just some hundred feet from the hard deck. Amazing

Didnt try accelerated stalls. However, as I posted elsewhere, I tried sustained, flat, high-g, turns. No stall, only alt lost. No spin. Amazing E-retention during vertical zooms as well. Obviously, you can perform almost endless loops. Too bad ....

I find CFS2 more challenging during dogfights but I understand that B17-II was born as a bomber sim.


Posts: 20 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jv44~Siggi
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Member # 7455

posted 11-28-2000 09:58 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've tried climbing with 109's in the P-47, but it won't have it...the nose mushes down at around 90mph and I have to dive some way to pick up useable airspeed again. The P-47 definitely can't do unlimited loops, and it doesn't like hard flat turns for too long either.
The fighter FM's are definitely weak in this sim, but Wayward have always made it clear they were concentrating on the bombers.

Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ming_123UK
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Member # 7155

posted 11-28-2000 10:30 AM     Profile for Ming_123UK   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gatt - you're in full real mode of course?

Ming out.


Posts: 105 | From: London UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged

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