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Author Topic: Poor wingmen AI = US campaign senseless
MeatWater
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posted 11-16-2000 04:36 PM     Profile for MeatWater   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This is really starting to annoy me: takeoff from the carrier, seconds later all but my wingie report to be bailing out. Huh? Then, flying into the target area my wingman takes a sightseeing tour leaving me alone with a whole bunch of japs. Guess what? I didn't make it.

Now the manual tells us that the US pilots were able to even out the disadvantage they had due to their aircraft by TEAMWORK. I haven't seen teamwork within my flight so far, and with the japs attacking like a bunch of wild bees I am simply unable to do anything but to look after my six. How should I look after the bombers?

As I do all the flying in realtime without using the autopilot, you can imagine that I am not really happy with this.

Now the big question: is it me? Anybody here flying a successful US campaign? From what I've seen, this simply can't be. And yes I do have experience in flightsims, like for example EAW.

Someone enlighten me. Cheers.

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MeatWater

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Posts: 139 | From: Munster, Germany | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
MeatWater
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posted 11-16-2000 04:44 PM     Profile for MeatWater   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oh, just saw that I wrote "japs". I hereby state that it is not my intention to degrade or offend our japanese friends using this term - please understand it like the term "huns" used for us germans. Just in case...

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MeatWater

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Posts: 139 | From: Munster, Germany | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
SpinDry
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posted 11-16-2000 05:00 PM     Profile for SpinDry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
One of my buddies (former Viper driver, callsign Sensei) has the same problem with the Japanese campaign. He said it's gotten so bad he's afraid to attempt landing, they play demolition derby and he gets blamed for the carnage. He just Xes out of the mission as soon as the objectives are met so he doesn't risk taking extra losses.
Posts: 296 | From: Rome, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-16-2000 05:02 PM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I too like to fly my missions in real time, but after the second time I got burned by the code I gave up on the campaigns totally.

Microsoft talk about "Teamwork" in the manual like it's reflected by the AI performance in-game. It isn't, and they had to have known this.

Another example of bare-faced duplicity. "Here, buy these cheese-flavoured chips...oh, what? They are ready-salted? And they ain't chips, they're corn-sticks? So sue me."

Nobody gives a damn anymore, least of all the majority of developers. It's just shovel any old dreck out the door, mis-advertise it, hype it to the stars and grab as much cash as possible. And then do it again with a "2" and a "3" tacked on the end.

We keep buying it, we give them the green light, we shouldn't be suprised we keep getting shafted with sloppy, half-finished code written by jobsworths who's hearts aren't in it.


Posts: 226 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
SpinDry
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posted 11-16-2000 05:06 PM     Profile for SpinDry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oh, and MW: the only Germans I call "Huns" are the ones I see over the sights of my virtual SPAD in battle. *wink* Mir ist kein Problem damit.

Salute!
Spinny


Posts: 296 | From: Rome, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
von_M
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posted 11-16-2000 05:28 PM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum62/HTML/001444.html

Take a look at this thread MeatWater, it could have a solution to our problem.

Ahh heck, I'l just post it here;

quote:
Originally Posted by Barkhorn1x:
If you look at almost all (45 out of about 50) US missions you will notice your flight Skill is rated as "Rookie", w/ an Aggressiveness rating of "Low" and you are always flying in "Fingertip" formation.
So...No skills, no kills!

I am currently editing each and every mission to bring my flight up to the following settings;
Skill = Veteran
Aggressiveness = Average
Formation = Line abreast

I believe this to be not only more realistic but it should eliminate many of the collisions and result in a higher kill rate by wingies.

I will be done by the end of this week (don't have much free time), and I will report back on the results.

Regards,
Barkhorn.


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Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


Posts: 459 | From: London, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Private_Ryan
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posted 11-16-2000 05:44 PM     Profile for Private_Ryan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I finished the campaign. Playing the japanese one now and is much harder for me. Wingman commands do work. At least they work for me as they did in EAW. Sometimes they collide. It happens in CFS1 also alot, and is indeed annoying. The best thing to do is start the mission again. I always give the regroup command when airborne, this way I am assured that they won't mess things up from the start. You HAVE to take care of your wingman. Padlock a target for them and they will go for it. Pick a DIFFERENT target for yourself. Get them out when missiongoals are achieved and make a run for it (yes I know...chickening out). Losing too many wingman will fail the campaign. My wingman currently has 11 kills, but can't afford losing one during the rest of the campaign.
Is'nt it a great Game?
Having a lot of fun with the campaign. (and yes I've played EAW also alot)
I also believe that some missions will NOT work properly when flown in realtime. I am not sure about that though. Some (experienced) missionbuilders are having problems getting their missions right when flown in realtime, but are ok when you warp.
(My God, are you really flying all missions in realtime?)

Posts: 63 | From: Holland | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
MeatWater
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posted 11-16-2000 05:46 PM     Profile for MeatWater   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wow...is that a light at the end of the tunnel? Is it...a freightrain???? Or could this really be of help?

What on earth were they thinking when they set up the missions? Were they thinking at all?? (sigh.)

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MeatWater

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Posts: 139 | From: Munster, Germany | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
MeatWater
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posted 11-16-2000 07:08 PM     Profile for MeatWater   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's it, I've had it. Only just ended up as a POW thanks to TWO of my wingmen who followed me back from a mission FORMATION FLYING with a Zero that was right behind me, FIRING at me for more than 20 miles!!! My a/c had been hit by flak so I could not get rid of the attacker myself, and hell was I crying out for help! All kinds of commands could not make these two asswipes close up and assist me.

I give up on this, waiting for a couple of 3rd party campaigns to hit the deck. Something tells me that all missions in this sim have been designed in one day. And it must'a been a Monday.

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MeatWater

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Posts: 139 | From: Munster, Germany | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-16-2000 07:30 PM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jeez, that's reached new heights of absurdity! LOL! Sorry Nick, I have to laugh. Your wingies flying formation on the Zero while he blows chunks out of you...too much.

It's laugh or scream.


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Holliday
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posted 11-16-2000 07:36 PM     Profile for Holliday   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I gave up on the campaign a long time ago. I am stuck at about the 13th mission. The mission is to take off, kill the swarm of enemy planes converging on the airbase, and then escort some mouth-breather somewhere to do something. The problem: I want to use boom and zoom tactics, but the game really won’t let me. Using boom and zoom means very little time with guns on the target. That’s the way it is supposed to work. You hit hard, do some damage, and then zoom out while you still have the energy advantage. But the game wants you to turn fight, and shoot down the enemy in a hurry, instead of zooming in and out inflicting damage on as many enemy planes as possible. Just doing damage is not enough, as the AI planes don’t seem to suffer the role rate problem when hit. Now if not enough planes are shot down in a short period of time, your entire flight starts dropping like flies. I made it all the way through the mission once, only to run out of gas. Ok, no problem, added fuel trucks to each airbase. So fuel is no longer a problem. The problem is shooting down all those fighters basically by my self. Yes, my flight, including my wing, take direction (I yell at them with Game Voice). But they die so quickly. On the other hand, I have seen enemy planes out turning me, only to extend at that critical moment and ending up in my gun sights. This is helpful behavior, but not enough to overcome the mind-numbingly stupid pilots in my flight.
So…I got a few civilian type planes, including that killer DOUGLAS DC-3, and a DHC-2 BEAVER, both with gps. I have flown almost 2000 miles, island hopping in real time, refueling along the way, just for the sheer pleasure of flying such great planes. The campaign is a game, I like flight simulators more than games. If I wanted to play a game I would play Crimson Skies.

Posts: 139 | From: Wilmington NC USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
AxA
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posted 11-16-2000 07:51 PM     Profile for AxA   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
MW, I feel your pain.

What I can't understand is that even after successfully completing the mission (in my opinion), landing my battle-scared aircraft back at "Fighter-One" at the 'Canal or back on the rolling deck, I STILL get chewed out by that "Spitting" C.O. !!!

It gets stranger...

As a test, I start a new campaign and on the very first mission, I takeoff from the carrier go around and immediately land and end the mission. Guess what....

I get the cut scene with my pilot sitting down, reading the CFS2 manual and the "mission complete, well done" phrase.

Huh?!

I just don't get it...

Man, I hate that freakin' spitting C.O...

AxA http://www.FlyAndFight.com


Posts: 380 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Aviar
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posted 11-16-2000 08:29 PM     Profile for Aviar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
AxA,

If you don't mind me asking, on what difficulty level are you playing the campaign? If you play it on Easy, you only need to complete 50% of your goals.

For instance, if you had two goals (1-destroy something 2-player survives) you could actually just take off and bail out. If you survive, you will get a 'Mission Successful'. You completed 50% of the goals.

If you play on the Hard difficulty level, you will have to complete 100% of your goals.

Aviar


Posts: 196 | From: Bergen County, NJ USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sundog
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posted 11-16-2000 10:21 PM     Profile for Sundog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey guys,

You forgot about the wingmen `talking'.

The Mission: Bomb `X' Target. Make sure your wingmen hit it too!

In Game: Sundog Padlocks the target. Hits the Attack key for his wingmen. Their response?!:

`No can do'
`Already engaged'
etc.

As they circle stupidly above you. I think the way you are supposed to use them is to call a rejoin when someone gets on your six and then shoot the enemy down when they hook up the wingman's six. That sounds like workable MS tactics to me!

SD

PS- Hey meatwater, thanks for all the memorable add-ons to EAW!


Posts: 7 | From: Griffith, IN., USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
curlytop
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posted 11-17-2000 01:15 AM     Profile for curlytop   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Landing on a carrier in a shot up plane I got the cut&land from the LSO but missed the wires and bounced over the port side. I hit X and the sim tried to end my flight, but the plane hit the water and exploded.

That spitting co came up yelling at me. Checking the advanced info screen showed:

You must survive
X Destroy 3 aircraft

That idiot was yelling at a dead man! That's when I decided to replace his picture


Posts: 76 | From: Jackson, TN, USA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
gatt
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posted 11-17-2000 02:03 AM     Profile for gatt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hehe, guys you make me laugh. Fly online if you wanna smart wingmen and even there (sometimes) you'll find dweebs that leave you alone. AI wingmen and foes *are* idiot, the less stupid AI is the MigAlley's one.
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Private_Ryan
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posted 11-17-2000 03:54 AM     Profile for Private_Ryan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Curlytop: with what picture did you replace this spitting idiot?
I myself am thinking of replacing it with something nicer.... much more
feminin....preferably nude....

Oh well....


Posts: 63 | From: Holland | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
JV_44 Wilder
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posted 11-17-2000 04:26 AM     Profile for JV_44 Wilder   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have played fsims since my amiga days and I can honestly say that I have never met such useless wingmen as the ones in this game....

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Tonight we drink...For tomorrow we ride on fresh horses!


Posts: 91 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
MasterSheep
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posted 11-17-2000 04:38 AM     Profile for MasterSheep   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The quality of games AI seems to be the only distinguishing factor these days.

I'm writing this as I wait for my copy of CFS2 to turn up.

What I don't get is that if the enemy fighters are so good at shooting you down, why can't your wingmen do the same?

Not till computer AI becomes really good will games like CFS2 stop being games and start being simulators.

Perhaps Microsoft could add some sort of DirectAI API to directx9, which allowed developers to quickly build AI models.


Posts: 48 | From: London,England | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
gatt
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posted 11-17-2000 04:56 AM     Profile for gatt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Uhmm, I'm afraid that AI wont never ever be smart enough, no matter what DX or system you use.

Try a 1 v/s 1 duel, co-alt, in ACE and HARD flight model modes. You'll merge H2H. Get some vertical separation nosing down a little, get speed, avoid his Head-On attack and then Immelmann. You'll get his six easily and shoot him down in a minute or two, even if you get an inferior fighter (in other words, try it in a A6M2 against an Hellcat). Always.

CFS2 aces are stupid, but dont show them your 6oc in a furball Lets see what B17-II, IL-2 and Rowan's BoB will be able to do. Dont expect too much, tho

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 11-17-2000).]


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MasterSheep
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posted 11-17-2000 06:01 AM     Profile for MasterSheep   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think AI *could* be much better than it is, if only the general public even noticed. I mean, what sells games is flashy graphics and marketing hype, with the quality of the AI only being of makor importance to us 'real' simmers.

In the future, when developers can assume a minimum system of 1ghz athlon or something, the number of spare cycles to do AI will increase.

In theory, an extremely good computer pilot should be feasible. The system is very clearly defined (plane capabilities, physics), the objective is pretty simple (get on the other guys six without being shot down) and an AI pilot can maintain perfect SA all the time without having to use the hat switch!

The biggest advance I can see would be to have AI that learns - for example, if you pull an immelman like gatt suggests, then it'll work first time but any AI pilots who see you do it will be ready for you next time.


Posts: 48 | From: London,England | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
gatt
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posted 11-17-2000 06:19 AM     Profile for gatt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah Master, your right. Besides, you cannot understand how many *human* players still dont learn the lesson and force the Head-On attack.

Anyway, a good AI should have a "human" situational awareness. I mean, even excellent pilots lower their SA sometimes or get tired or "target fixated". In the same way, a green pilot could have a good SA but limited fighting skills. A lot of combinations indeed ....


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Beery
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posted 11-17-2000 07:39 AM     Profile for Beery   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"Only just ended up as a POW thanks to TWO of my wingmen who followed me back from a mission FORMATION FLYING with a Zero that was right behind me, FIRING at me for more than 20 miles!!! My a/c had been hit by flak so I could not get rid of the attacker myself, and hell was I crying out for help! All kinds of commands could not make these two asswipes close up and assist me."

Could it be that they were out of ammo?


Posts: 86 | From: Boston, MA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Beery
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posted 11-17-2000 08:02 AM     Profile for Beery   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"The biggest advance I can see would be to have AI that learns - for example, if you pull an immelman like gatt suggests, then it'll work first time but any AI pilots who see you do it will be ready for you next time."

I guarantee that game would last about 2 days on your computer. After that you'd be so frustrated with the AI outflying you, you'd take the game back to the store.

The problem is, we don't seem to want realism. The truth is, in WW2 the air was filled with pilots who could barely fly straight in formation, let alone dogfight. A true WW2 air combat simulation would feature many of the same poor pilot abilities we complain about in this game. We've become so good at flying our simulated planes - we are aces, for all intents and purposes. But we make the mistake of expecting our adversaries and our wingmates to be as good as we are - but that's not realistic. In WW2, not everyone was an ace. Of course to an ace, poor/medium pilots seem completely useless - they can't shoot worth a damn, they can't fly, and they go through an entire campaign without getting a single kill. But guess what - that's how it was in reality too.

We should not expect our wingmates to be as good as we are. They simulate average pilots. The last thing we need in a WW2 air combat simulation, is to have the whole sky filled with Bongs and Nishizawas. We'd soon get tired of that, I can assure you - it wouldn't be realistic, and it certainly wouldn't be fun.

Sure, the AI is not perfect, but it's pretty good (it's a damn sight better than the AI in Red Baron 3D, I can assure you). AI is hard to get right - probably the hardest thing to do in a flight sim. The AI pilot has to fly its aircraft within the envelope at full difficulty level and without cheating - a task we humans find difficult when we first get hold of a new game. Not only that, it has to pose a credible threat to real live humans while it's flying its aircraft. The fact that it does often pose such a threat is amazing enough. The fact that it does it most of the time pretty realistically is even more amazing.

Let's all give the AI a break!

[This message has been edited by Beery (edited 11-17-2000).]


Posts: 86 | From: Boston, MA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
TBird66
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posted 11-17-2000 08:12 AM     Profile for TBird66   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If they were out of ammo, it would be their f*******g duty to ram the bastard who is trying to kill at their friend !!
Posts: 350 | From: Germany | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
TBird66
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posted 11-17-2000 08:16 AM     Profile for TBird66   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If they were out of ammo, it would be their f*******g duty to ram the bastard who is trying to kill at their friend !!
Posts: 350 | From: Germany | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
TBird66
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posted 11-17-2000 08:19 AM     Profile for TBird66   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oooops, sorry for double-posting
Posts: 350 | From: Germany | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
gatt
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posted 11-17-2000 08:39 AM     Profile for gatt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
I guarantee that game would last about 2 days on your computer. After that you'd be so frustrated with the AI outflying you, you'd take the game back to the store.

I disagree. Online sims last 1-3 years on HD's, the reason is that every duel you fight is different and challenging. And most of the times you get your arse kicked by a bogey you've never even spotted. Online, it is not easy even to get a 1/1 kill/death ratio, go figure.

Problem is that offline sims sometimes have tuff AI only becouse the AI pilots always drive at the edge of the envelope and have perfect SA. IMHO, *that* is boring and annoying.

Just my thoughts <S>


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Tracer
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posted 11-17-2000 10:15 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This is another not documented key -the Regroup key; press "R" regroups but if you watch your wingman will be the only one whom answers....the rest of the flight will carry on being shot down
Pressing "R" TWICE will call the whole flight to regroup!you will know because all pilots will aknowledge you- use the text message as a confirmation.

Hell,press "G" twice and the pilot pulls out two .50s and shoots himself in the head!

Man you may as well be going out to Midway with two 747s as escort

Tracer

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"Flying is the second greatest thing known to man!
The first is landing!!"


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
nibbio
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posted 11-17-2000 10:15 AM     Profile for nibbio   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Gatt! Small world
Posts: 166 | From: Italy | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 11-17-2000 10:15 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey nibbio did we crash in cyberspace? What with the double/quadruple posts

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited 11-17-2000).]


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
nibbio
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posted 11-17-2000 10:18 AM     Profile for nibbio   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
sorry, double post

[This message has been edited by nibbio (edited 11-17-2000).]


Posts: 166 | From: Italy | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 11-17-2000 10:18 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gee reply must have went off like a machine gun!

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited 11-17-2000).]


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 11-17-2000 10:19 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
rat,ta,ta,tat!

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited 11-17-2000).]


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 11-17-2000 10:21 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Come to think of it this thread has quite a few double posts on it?

Must be the frustration pressing the "A" key "Attack will you! You damn beep,beep"

"Will you just send my post! press,press,press!"

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited 11-17-2000).]


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 11-17-2000 10:22 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Delete

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited 11-17-2000).]


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 11-17-2000 10:34 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Damn

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited 11-17-2000).]


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
TBird66
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posted 11-17-2000 10:51 AM     Profile for TBird66   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Please, Tracer, stop pressing "Submit Reply"
Posts: 350 | From: Germany | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Beery
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posted 11-17-2000 10:59 AM     Profile for Beery   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"I disagree. Online sims last 1-3 years on HD's, the reason is that every duel you fight is different and challenging"

Yeah, but they're not much good for simulating the reality of air combat. Real combat doesn't usually involve people fighting at a height of 12ft, within sight of each side's aerodrome. Most real air combat doesn't involve 'respawning' a second after your pilot dies. Online air combat sims might simulate a dogfight okay, but they certainly don't simulate the career of a pilot very well - offline sims do that best. I guess that's the difference - some folks like online play, others(like me) won't touch it with a ten foot pole because it's just not very realistic to those of us who want more from the game than a low-level dogfight simulator. Combat is not all dogfighting, and an historical combat flight sim should in my view simulate more than combat, and certainly much more than a dogfight. It should give the player a sense of history and a sense of being involved in a fighter pilot's war career - otherwise it's just a glorified arcade game with an historical twist.

"Problem is that offline sims sometimes have tuff AI only becouse the AI pilots always drive at the edge of the envelope and have perfect SA. IMHO, *that* is boring and annoying."

Well, offline sims have varying degrees of AI competence. A rookie AI pilot won't fly at the edge of the envelope.

It's true that AI pilots often have superhuman SA - even the rookie pilots seem to have eyes in the back of their heads. This is the most apparent drawback in offline air combat sims - there's no possibility to get up-sun, or to stalk a victim. But you can hardly say that there's much chance of that in online play either, given the unrealistic 'radar' that most online 'sims' give players.


Posts: 86 | From: Boston, MA, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
slugged
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posted 11-17-2000 11:59 AM     Profile for slugged   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Meatwater,

There is another thread on this topic (titled WINGMAN ARE IDIOTS). I forgot who started it but a guy named Barkhorn1x found out that in ALL of the US campaigns your wingman AI is set to Rookie and Not Aggressive. I believe in the Japanese campaign files the AI is set to Veteran and Aggressive. I find that my Japanese wingman are much better than my US wingman.

Someone else mentioned this and I will confirm it. You will have much more success if you follow a few simple tactics.

1. Right after take off issue the "R" regroup command. If you have two flights I usually then issue the "S" split command at least twice. This way your flights are not bunched up.

2. Upon seeing the enemy. Padlock/select your target. Issue the "A" attack command 1 time if there is a single flight of enemy targets. If you have two flights and there are multiple flights of enemy aircraft then target one aircraft of one flight and issue the attack command, then select an aircraft in the second flight and issue the attack command again. You must wait at least 3 seconds before giving the second attack command or both your flights will attack the first target.

3. Also if you find yourself in trouble issue the "H" command several times.

4. You should pay attention to your wingman and their proximity to an enemy gun position (be it ground or boat). If your wingman get too close then you need to issue the regroup command multiple times to lead them away. You should then issue the split command for multiple flights. If there are still enemy aircraft then repeat step 2 above.

Also Barkhorn1x is rewriting all of the US campaigns and modifying the AI to veteran and aggressive. That should help the US campaign a bunch.

Hope this helps,
slugged

[This message has been edited by slugged (edited 11-17-2000).]


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