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Author Topic: Disturbing Tendencies
stag

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posted 11-07-2000 05:30 PM     Profile for stag     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
ME? Surly?

Anybody calls me that, I won't give 'em the time of day.

The second world war is long gone. The men and women who fought in that war learned to accept what was given to them, and now are more likely to greet an erstwhile enemy as a comrade than an enemy. There are noteable exeptions, which I won't go into here. But on the whole; Has it occurred to you they have more in common with each other than they do with us, their children?

I saw a documentary about a Kamekaze survivor; he lived because the war ended before he had a chance to take off. He said he would have died willingly in defence of his home. How many of us here have been so desperate as to feel the need to die in the off- chance that it will delay the inevitable, even for a short time?

As for the comparison with the people that today we call crazed fanatics.

The wounds are too fresh, and there may be more to come. Can we learn to understand them?

Ask me again, in 30 years, or so.


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OldFrenchy
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posted 11-07-2000 10:31 PM     Profile for OldFrenchy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks Spot-
I did type in 'Manga' (expected a bunch of spaghetti recipes) but now I am properly informed! They might as well draw stick figures for all the dramatic effect the Manga style creates!:P

OldFrenchy


Posts: 39 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Squeehee
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posted 11-08-2000 06:07 AM     Profile for Squeehee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This whole thing reminds me of last years ruckus over that "JG26 War Diary" book review.

About the starving German prisoners; I just got a set of "Soldat",German uniform referance books. Included in the volumes are personal accounts from various German soldiers. I've just been reading through Vol. 5, which covers the Grossedeuschland Division. In the appendix is an account from tank crewman, Freiedhelm Simon, which sheds some light on the starving prisoner thing. He surrendered to the US soldiers on VE day and was transferred to a prison camp shortly thereafter. I'll give some excerpts.

"In the camp...there were already thousands of German soldiers. The first three days we had thick slices of bread with some marmalade. We gathered what tarp was available and made tents to protect against the night and approaching rains. A few tried to escape and were shot crossing the dirt road. On May 12...the provisions were depleting day bay day. We resorted to digging out the grass roots. My health was pretty much at an end, probably due to my last illness. On the 14th we were transported to Stossberg. We were glad that we were not delivered to the Russians. The new camp is located on a fresh field which we systematically search for fresh herbs and edible grass. After a rainy period we were knee-deep in mud and horribly vegetating without nourishment. My health deteriorated more every day. I was at a point to where I could hardly stand and it was impossible to find a dry place to camp on. The guards were merciless, since there were no frontline soldiers in this prison camp. They took drastic measures to shoot at anyone attempting to escape. The disease of hunger set upon us. On June 6, the infirm were transported to an early duty termination station. At this time I was so weak that I was unconscious for the most part. I was told later that they found me dumped along with the other sick and dead in a pile in a compound at Erfurt in Thueringen. Was it coincidence that on of my neighbors from home walked by this pile and recognized me? He had been a prisoner here for a few days and had managed to find a comfortable room for himself. He had also managed to beg for a little food. On June 10, all prisoners from Rheinland were taken to the train station. We were supposed to be sent back home to be released. Rumors started that, instead of going home, we would be transported to a work camp in Holland." On the way there, he managed to jump from the train and make his way back home.

Sorry for the horrible paraphrasing. I wouldn't have bothered typing it out except that I thought it was interesting and I havent got much else to do.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ike made it a little tough on the newly vanquished Germans. Neither would I condemn him for it. After all, they kind of asked for it, if you ask me. Besides, the treatment was certainly better than they would've recieved in a Russian camp, relatively speaking.

Ok, time to hit the hay.


Posts: 102 | From: Richmond Heights, MO. 63117 | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
tiamat
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posted 11-08-2000 07:10 AM     Profile for tiamat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't know KDC what you mean by phrase "stealing software" ... please re-read that thread, I've posted an answer to this acusation.

And the problem with the culture. Well, the cultures don't need to be understood, they just exists. It's that good? I think it is, because without diversity all the things dies (take a look at american culture who overhelmed and destroyed other culures).

In an polinesian tribes women who get married used to take out their front teeths and to paint in black the rest of them ... and they think that's beauty! We don't need to love this, but we must understand it.

I mean that to judge somebody you must done it from their culture and laws point of view. The canibal's kids learn from an early age to eat human flesh, and it taste good for them. Can you say that's something wrong with them? You can say so from your point of view (as an occidental), but you can't say that knowin' the way they used to live in (and you knew the scientist says that human race become what it's today by eating human brains that contain some glands, I don't remeber now it's names?)...

And the kamikazi pilots were doing a thing that it's normal and honourable in their culture. Can you say they are wrong? I surely can't... If they are heroes? they surely are for their nation, and about what you think (a far away insignifiant stranger), they surely don't care and after all, who give a damn?

I, for one, don't!

And please don't take it personaly. It's just a discution on a philosophal theme. And when it comes about philosophy, all are rights!

+tiamat

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Windoze unexpected error no. 1 message: "Everything seems to works fine. Please press CTRL+ALT+DEL to fix this."


Posts: 158 | From: Bucharest, Romania | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
KDC
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posted 11-08-2000 07:45 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Tiamat, do you really think the guys at Flight1 intended to give their product away for free? Your answer is nonsense Ė I am sure that the method that FSClouds is distributed will be changed to prevent thieves like you taking advantage of a loophole.

As to your second point, I donít think you understand what my point was Ė youíre saying that you can only ďjudge somebody you must done it from their culture and laws point of viewĒ. How is this different from what I have been posting? Please read more carefully.


Posts: 57 | From: Princeton,NJ | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
tiamat
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posted 11-08-2000 08:24 AM     Profile for tiamat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
KDC, you simply don't get it.

Do you think that I prefer to do a hard assembly (do you know what assembly is?) work (sometimes this took several days, even weeks!) to be able to spend a few hours on a week using a software I like it or need it than to buy it from stores (and in this way to support developers for their good work)?

But again it'a a problem of culture and society. In Romania a full monthly average wage it's aroud 100$ (read it well you american one, ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS PER MONTH). And from that money we have to eat, to dress, to pay rent...and so many others, I don't even dear to think about it!

Can I afford in this conditions to pay 29$ for an add-on? Try to put you in my place, and then answer at this!

Please come in Romania, work here and try to live two months in that way ... and then we'll talk again (I'm curious what you'll have say about that experience)!!!

I'm a thief? What you guys think, please let me know... Because I was born in Romania and I don't have the money to buy something that you guys can afford to buy in every day of a month, means I can't enjoy it?

Think about all of that KDC...

+tiamat

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Windoze unexpected error no. 1 message: "Everything seems to works fine. Please press CTRL+ALT+DEL to fix this."


Posts: 158 | From: Bucharest, Romania | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
KDC
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posted 11-08-2000 08:47 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Tiamat Ė you think you have a right to enjoy something you canít afford? I feel sorry that you have to live in a society still suffering from the effects of communism, but you know what Ė those are the breaks! You feel that your situation entitles you to steal (and you have admitted as much). No Tiamat, if you canít afford a game (lord knows how you got a hold of a computer or CFS2 for that matter) then you have no right to play any games. Yes, life seems to be hard in Romania, but why donít you stop playing games and try to make your country a better place for the next generation? Have you ever heard of sacrifice? How can you complain about your situation when your spending so much time playing games, stealing software and posting on the internet. I donít think a majority of the immigrants who made their way to the US over the last century sat around complaining Ė they sacrificed, saved and worked their balls off to make a better life. I know you donít have the same opportunity in Romania, but stealing is not justified in this situation, sorry.


Posts: 57 | From: Princeton,NJ | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
riordan
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posted 11-08-2000 08:55 AM     Profile for riordan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
KDC: With all due respect, I give up. Your statements changed from your first few posts to your last few. You continue to fail to admit that. Perhaps this is just because you weren't clear enough in your first posts. If so, then great. If not, then great. My main point since my first post has been that you were changing your position and then telling others that they were having problems comprehending your posts. I do not agree with that; there is a clear difference in what I said (which you stated you agreed with) and what you said in the begining. It's been a most interesting debate

At any rate, I am retiring from this thread.

riordan
139


Posts: 202 | From: SA,TX,US | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
tiamat
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posted 11-08-2000 10:00 AM     Profile for tiamat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What you say there KDC? If you don't have the money to eat you DON'T HAVE to eat?

And what do you mean by workin' to rebuild a country? Immigrating in America?

Soryy, but I don't think so! I'm a good programmer (Visual C++6.0, Assembly), system administrator (at school I'm admin on a 3000 computers LAN), designer (DTP in Quark, Photoshop, Illustrator, Corel, 3DStudioMAX), web designer and a few others but i'm stayin' here, working for 100$ per month because I'm a romanian!

+tiamat

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Windoze unexpected error no. 1 message: "Everything seems to works fine. Please press CTRL+ALT+DEL to fix this."


Posts: 158 | From: Bucharest, Romania | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
KDC
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posted 11-08-2000 10:13 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
How the hell do you arrive at your conclusions?
Posts: 57 | From: Princeton,NJ | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
tiamat
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posted 11-08-2000 10:28 AM     Profile for tiamat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"No Tiamat, if you canít afford a game (lord knows how you got a hold of a computer or CFS2 for that matter) then you have no right to play any games." - by KDC

"What you say there KDC? If you don't have the money to eat you DON'T HAVE to eat?" - my reply (not only about games, but about software in general - after all it's an IT era man)...

and

"Yes, life seems to be hard in Romania, but why donít you stop playing games and try to make your country a better place for the next generation? Have you ever heard of sacrifice?...I donít think a majority of the immigrants who made their way to the US over the last century sat around complaining Ė they sacrificed, saved and worked their balls off to make a better life." - by KDC

And what do you mean by workin' to rebuild a country? Immigrating in America?

"Sorry, but I don't think so! I'm a good programmer (Visual C++6.0, Assembly), system administrator (at school I'm admin on a 3000 computers LAN), designer (DTP in Quark, Photoshop, Illustrator, Corel, 3DStudioMAX), web designer and a few others but i'm stayin' here, working for 100$ per month because I'm a romanian!" - my reply (do you really think I can't immigrate in USA to made a better life for ME? but this isn't a <<only about me>> matter ... how do you call this - sacrifice is good enough for you?

+tiamat

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Windoze unexpected error no. 1 message: "Everything seems to works fine. Please press CTRL+ALT+DEL to fix this."


Posts: 158 | From: Bucharest, Romania | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
riordan
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posted 11-08-2000 10:49 AM     Profile for riordan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
KDC: OK, I admit I can't stand it...are you referring to my statements in your last post?

riordan
139


Posts: 202 | From: SA,TX,US | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
KDC
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posted 11-08-2000 10:53 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
sorry Riordan - I wasn't referring to you.
Posts: 57 | From: Princeton,NJ | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
tiamat
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posted 11-08-2000 11:05 AM     Profile for tiamat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry KDC, but I think this discution must have an end. And I'll put it here.

I don't want to offend or to hurt you or anybody else from this forum. Those are just my toughts. Feel free to think otherwise or to desagree me. It's a free life after all, don't you think?

I enjoyed this little discution and I'll hope we'll remain friends (beside the fact that I'm romanian and you're american).

I love you guys! Happy gamming to all of you!

+tiamat

PS: check my Midway campaign thread, and if you want and can help me to make this, please do it!

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Windoze unexpected error no. 1 message: "Everything seems to work fine. Please press CTRL+ALT+DEL to fix this."


Posts: 158 | From: Bucharest, Romania | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
riordan
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posted 11-08-2000 11:09 AM     Profile for riordan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
KDC: Thanks for the clarification. I really enjoy arguing...er debating I find it hard to stay away from them. Just checking

Cuz if you were...

J/K

riordan
139

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*Begin blantant inflammatory comment*

God help us all if George W. doesn't win!!!

*End blatant inflammatory comment*
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Posts: 202 | From: SA,TX,US | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Hertston
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posted 11-08-2000 03:14 PM     Profile for Hertston   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"By the way, why are all the Brits so surly? Is it the weather over there this time of year?"

Actually, yes It's done nothing but piss down with rain for the last three months, and we've just had the worst floods in recorded history.....

Good excuse to stay in and have a good "go" at Johnnie Jap tho....


Posts: 246 | From: Torpoint, Cornwall, UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged

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