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Author Topic: Disturbing Tendencies
Nimits
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posted 11-05-2000 05:49 PM     Profile for Nimits   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
In all the flight sims I have played to date (with the exception of those which only simulate one plane and/or country) the good guys (usually the US) are always shown victorious, or both sides are shown getting their licks, in both the opening sequence and the in-game screens. This is disturbingly not the case in CFS2. In this game, the opening screen shows the Japanes shooting down the American, and while the in game screens for the americans generally show the Americans in trouble, such a theme is lacking in the Japanese screen. In no war were the differences between good and bad so clearly drawn, but CFS2 seems to be attempting to give a sense of legitimacy to the Japanese through their (historically innacurate) slide shows and opening screens.
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Bando
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posted 11-05-2000 06:05 PM     Profile for Bando   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
wut?
i dont understand what you're trying to say

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Der Jager
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posted 11-05-2000 07:05 PM     Profile for Der Jager   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nimits:
In all the flight sims I have played to date (with the exception of those which only simulate one plane and/or country) the good guys (usually the US) are always shown victorious, or both sides are shown getting their licks, in both the opening sequence and the in-game screens. This is disturbingly not the case in CFS2. In this game, the opening screen shows the Japanes shooting down the American, and while the in game screens for the americans generally show the Americans in trouble, such a theme is lacking in the Japanese screen. In no war were the differences between good and bad so clearly drawn, but CFS2 seems to be attempting to give a sense of legitimacy to the Japanese through their (historically innacurate) slide shows and opening screens.

--------------------------
S!

IMHO it's called being PC!! Thanks to Clinton
and his cronies!

I noticed the opening sequences right away! I had to laugh, BECAUSE more often then NOT, it was the Jap planes heading for the deck on fire, in pieces, or with dead pilots!

Fact, The americans had team work in the opening stages of WW2, and later on this Team work coupled with BETTER planes, led to the DEFEAT of the Japanese!

Plus, since the Japanese insisted on regarding their own flyers as "consumables"
what did they expect?!? No self sealing fuel tanks or armor plate on their fighter ac?, that indicates a complete disregard for the men who had to fly these deathtraps!!

Not too compassionate, and once your trained pilots have been blowed to bits, or incinerated, then you turn to the poorly trained pilots, whose only claim to fame was ANOTHER kill marking on the side of a American fighter. Rather SAD, what a waste!!

Just to use an example, the Hellcat had a Kill ratio of either 10/1 or was it 8/1?
The Hellcat had self sealing fuel tanks, armor plate, and was flown by a WELL trained aggresive pilot. How could the Japs have won?

Some of my relatives who FOUGHT in this war have mentioned to me over the past few years how PO they are that the History writers are REWRITING history!!! ! It takes a LOT of GALL to write about FACTS, then to change those facts because of a POLITICAL CLIMATE!!

Thats MY story AND I'm STICKING to it!!
Horrido!


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TG
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posted 11-05-2000 07:28 PM     Profile for TG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah I agree. Ive been reading the book too.
But hey its just a story and I don't think it was intended to change thinking.

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Saburo
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posted 11-05-2000 07:58 PM     Profile for Saburo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey, I noticed that too. In fact something else I've noticed is that the cartoon illustrations depicting Yankee pilots look awfully similar to the Nippon pilots, Seems to me that Microsoft is kinda sensative on alienating either market. What a bunch of whusses! Great sim tho!!
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Lud von Pipper
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posted 11-05-2000 09:43 PM     Profile for Lud von Pipper   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
May be the Nippo guy is one of those many with quite a lot of stars on his right side of the fusolage?... (you know that american planes are as downable as other else, don't you?).
He he, nice to see how you Yanks can be PO by a unique case of this sort (ever thought there are other countries in the world and that they buy the same products you buy?

LvP


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Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-05-2000 10:19 PM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The fact is the Japanese pilots were pretty much the same as their American counterparts...patriotic young men fighting for their country and their loved-ones.
Why should they be any less honoured than the US pilots?

And as far as political correctness goes, it'll never go far enough to give honour to the 'Falling Cherry Blossoms', the Kamikaze. THEY were some seriously special human beings. Salute.

------------------
Taka Chutai


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Der Jager
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posted 11-06-2000 12:28 AM     Profile for Der Jager   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jv44~Siggi:
The fact is the Japanese pilots were pretty much the same as their American counterparts...patriotic young men fighting for their country and their loved-ones.
Why should they be any less honoured than the US pilots?

And as far as political correctness goes, it'll never go far enough to give honour to the 'Falling Cherry Blossoms', the Kamikaze. THEY were some seriously special human beings. Salute.



------------------------------------------
S!

Sir,

Speaking only for myself, I've thought of many of the former Axis fighter pilots as hero's. Saburo Sakai, Adolf Galland, Erich Hartmann, etc, these were extraordinary fighter pilots in anyone's airforce!

The fact that they could achive victories under very difficult circumstance's always caused me to admire them.
In short, on all sides of WW2 there were brave and HONORABLE men on both sides!

Unforunately the countries that these men fought for, Germany, Japan did some terrible things during WW2. By now we ALL know about nazi Germany and the deathcamps, and Japan and what the Japanese did in China. What the countries of these men did, has caused US
as American's(IMHO) to regard these men as criminals, who were fighting for those
totalitarian governments. This is the way I was raised, what I was taught in school, what my uncles told me, what they had experienced in the "WAR".

To this day, as far as I know, my mother STILL hates the Japanese because quite a few of her high school friends died in the "Death March Of Bataan". I have no feelings of animosity toward's the Germans or the Japanese, I believe that they fought for their COUNTRIES, I think they believed that their fight was "right", but I HOPE that they knew nothing of the evil that their governments did!

No, I'm not a smug American! I recently read a book about the treatment of German POW's in May 1945 by the US ARMY. IF this book is to be believed, Gen Eisenhower, deliberately
allowed German POW's to starve and freeze to death, many hundred's of thousands!!!! THAT was quite a shock!! !!

As far as the KAMIKAZE pilots, from what I've read the bulk of them were trainee pilots, with only a few hours of flight training. Yes I suppose you would have to admire their spirit, and bravery, But to SQUANDER your life in a lost cause!?!?
WHAT did they gain?!?!

As for me, I'd rather be a live dog, then a DEAD LION!

Just IMHO!! !
Horrido!


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KDC
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posted 11-06-2000 06:10 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Siggi, you know, you kill me. The Kamikaze pilots were "seriously special" human beings? Come on, where is your sense of outrage on this one? I've read all of your rants about protecting the common man and I can't believe that all of these pilots were not forced into giving up their lives. Let me guess, you probably admire the "martyrs" in the Middle Ease", you know the ones who think killing themselves in the process of killing innocents will send them straight to heaven. I guess that would make them "special".
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Andy Bush
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posted 11-06-2000 07:28 AM     Profile for Andy Bush   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Der Jager

The US, with Gen Eisenhower's knowledge, deliberately starved 'hundreds of thousands' of German POWs...

Now that's quite a revelation!

What book is this, BTW?

And what sort of cretin would believe it?

Andy


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Jv44~Siggi
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posted 11-06-2000 07:36 AM     Profile for Jv44~Siggi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
NONE of them were forced. In fact there were concientious officers who tried to dissuade them from volunteering, and they volunteered en-masse.
Read their letters. Read their poetry. Visit the shrine in Tokyo Japan.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Japanese cause, the futility or madness of suicide attacks, the Kamikaze were an expression of patriotism and love of family beyond anything the average western mind can ever hope to comprehend.

It's comfortable to believe they were "forced".

------------------
Taka Chutai


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KDC
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posted 11-06-2000 08:50 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So Siggi, you’re saying that the fact they came from a country that put no emphasis on the individual, indeed even at the expense of human life for a lost cause, has some sort of nobility? Do you understand that these people were the product of a repressive society that, no doubt, placed them in a situation where they felt that to do otherwise would be shameful. Am I saying that these “special human beings” were brainwashed from an early age? Yeah, it was pretty close to that.

So, you are in effect defending the machinations of a powerful, fascist, imperialistic, militaristic, totalitarian regime (whew!) that manipulated its citizens to die for a cause (which I may add was wrong). I would like to know how you reconcile this stance of yours with all of your other attacks where you consistently defend the “little guy”.


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BadBooze
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posted 11-06-2000 09:11 AM     Profile for BadBooze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This one is pretty simple guys as many posts above indicate.

Left-wing, socialist, fascist and politically correct in the twisted, corrupt, utopian world of Clinton and GORE !!!! Imperial Japan simply smacked of these same forces as did Hitler's Nazi Germany and Mussolini's Fascist Italy....and history shows where they ALL ended up!!!

Go America, Patriotism, The Constitution and the Rule of Law ... and Good-Bye GORE (and the Clintons !!!!!)

====== :-) =====

(Wow -- good stump speech LOL )


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Doc Halliday
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posted 11-06-2000 09:13 AM     Profile for Doc Halliday     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
And as far as political correctness goes, it'll never go far enough to give honour to the 'Falling Cherry Blossoms', the Kamikaze. THEY were some seriously special human beings. Salute.

Nice thought, I wonder what your thoughts are of those individuals who like to blow up ships and buildings in the name of Allah....

[This message has been edited by Doc Halliday (edited 11-06-2000).]


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Saburo
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posted 11-06-2000 09:59 AM     Profile for Saburo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Siggi, I hear you on the "very special people" part, but it seems those pilots were'nt drinking ceremonial sake before their last flight only because they were thirsty.
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SPOT
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posted 11-06-2000 10:26 AM     Profile for SPOT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If anyone deserved every bullet and shell thrown at them it was the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy. Yeah I know they are human beings just like us and Saburo Sakai was a hell of a guy - but the bottom line is I'm glad we won and the way we went about doing it was the only way.

The Kamikazes were a terrible waste of human life, that were an act of desperation to stop the Americans. All the "Divine Wind' accomplish was confirm amonst my countrymen was the Imperial Japanese Government would not surrender despite being overwhelmed on the field of battle and that only the A-Bomb would end the war.

Kamikaze pilots were gullible, deluded young men. Equally brave and equally foolish.


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BadBooze
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posted 11-06-2000 10:32 AM     Profile for BadBooze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
SPOT -- right on the money, politically and historically!!!!

===== :-) =====


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Chivas
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posted 11-06-2000 10:38 AM     Profile for Chivas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
People of the World are basiclly all the same, just a product of their environment.
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Der Jager
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posted 11-06-2000 11:57 AM     Profile for Der Jager   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
Der Jager

The US, with Gen Eisenhower's knowledge, deliberately starved 'hundreds of thousands' of German POWs...

Now that's quite a revelation!

What book is this, BTW?

And what sort of cretin would believe it?

Andy


----------------------------------
S!

I don't know "what sort of CRETIN would believe it", I read the book and it certainly
does SEEM plausible!

The book is............

"OTHER LOSSES "
by Lt. Col. Gordon "Jack" Mohr, AUS Ret.
--------------------------

Before you jump to the OBVIOUS conclusion about "CRETINS", FIRST read the book!
I was surprised to say the least! I HOPE the book is NOT TRUE!!

Horrido!


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Nimits
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posted 11-06-2000 12:53 PM     Profile for Nimits   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Who was the author of this book, and what evidence did he have to support his claim that Eisenhower starved German POWs? All the stories I have read about German POWs under American charge is that the Germans preferedd being captured to seving on the front lines (with the exception of some SS and FJ men), especially when they got sent back to America.

As for the Japanese Kamikazes, they were not all volunteers. Many had no choice in the matter. They were simply assigned to Kamikaze squadrons like they would be assigned to any regular squadron. That is not to say that many did not relish the chance to serve their country (a noble, if misplaced motive), but the fact that they wired the pilot's feet to the rudder pedals and sealed their canopies suggests that not all kamikazes dies willingly.

The question I asked about the opening, is why show the Japanese winning? It woud be both more historically representative and more moral correct to show the Americans victorious, but if they want to be fair and square and all that, they could show both sides (or niether) being shot down, or have some sort of alternating opening (like in AotP). That they did not do either of these suggests a rather disturbing.


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SPOT
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posted 11-06-2000 01:04 PM     Profile for SPOT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Got a good point Nimits - period photos of a/c and their crews would have done just fine - just like RB3D.
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OldFrenchy
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posted 11-06-2000 06:00 PM     Profile for OldFrenchy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Beyond the annoying comic-book format and the political correctness of it all, why do both sides look Japanese in the artwork?
Is everyone squinting at the sun?

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Crash!
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posted 11-06-2000 06:18 PM     Profile for Crash!   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Note there are no swastika's on German planes in CFS1.
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Nimits
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posted 11-06-2000 06:18 PM     Profile for Nimits   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Especially the LSO. (maybe that is why his instructions are so crummy)
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SPOT
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posted 11-06-2000 06:24 PM     Profile for SPOT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Old Frenchy - type the word
'Manga'
in your search engine. Thats the quality they were using. Not my cup of tea - 'BLEECH'

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Scat
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posted 11-06-2000 10:14 PM     Profile for Scat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'll just throw this out there. Maybe a bit flag-wavey but I think it's worth considering in regard to this thread:

"Imagine this. In the spring of 1945, around the world, the sight of a twelve-man squad of teenage boys, armed and in uniform, brought terror to people's hearts. Whether it was a Red Army squad in Berlin, Leipzig, or Warsaw, or a German squad in Holland, or a Japanese squad in Manila, Seoul, or Beijing, that squad meant rape, pillage, looting, wanton destruction, senseless killing. But there was an exception: a squad of GIs, a sight that brought the biggest smiles you ever saw...Around the world this was true, even in Germany, even-after September 1945-in Japan. This was because GIs meant candy, cigarettes, C-rations, and freedom. America had sent the best of her young men around the world, not to conquer but to liberate, not to terrorize but to help. This was a great moment in our history."

"The Victors" Stephen Ambrose

Not saying there weren't exceptions either way, but on average...

Regards,

Scat


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Mshock44
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posted 11-06-2000 10:45 PM     Profile for Mshock44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have a first-person experience with this issue. I bought my car off of a Luftwaffe Ace. He spent most of his time on the Russian front, but did shoot down a couple of B17s and a P38 later in the War.
He now live in the midwest, and often attends regional airshows featuring WWII era craft.
He sits and converses in a civil, sometimes fiendly manner with the same men that he was fighting during the War. Even the men who were friends of the P38 pilot he shot down don't seem to harbor any animosity towards him. Therefore, I cannot imagine how I would be justified in doing so. All those vets just seem to share a consensus that they were all young and somewhat foolish, historical politics seem to be a separate issue with them, and not an issue holding much more contention at that.
That being said, many Japanese do remeber thier part in the war in a positive light.
Whether you belive them or not is not is still your choice. Just because MS presents a story in one historical context doesn't mean that they belive the context or expect you to accept it as ligitimate(they might, ask them...). Clinton and the PC crowd (I don't like them, so don't say I'm defending them, they suck is so many other ways) didn't invent this take on Japan in the WWII era, some of the Japanese did. And moreover, it is likely that the perspective presented WAS the mindset of many of the Japanese DURING the war. I think is a valid, if ultimately mistaken (20/20 hindsight) presentation and context for the game.

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Frug
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posted 11-06-2000 10:51 PM     Profile for Frug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, you leave the forum for a moment and it gets taken over by wankerrs.

I think the cut scenes in CFS2 are just poor....not because of bias just because they are a shoddy, cheap way to add atmosphere to an otherwise good game. As for perceived politcal leanings....get over yourselves. (1) this is a GAME to simulate air combat...not right or wrong on either side (2) even if that was the case those men fighting for Japan were just as manipulated as their counterparts. (3) while there were evil things done by the Japanese, I think that air combat is another world. Its a world without human combatents in many ways because your opponent is unseen...in a metal machine...often quite distant compared to normal ground engagements. You kill a target.

Before the foolish jump on me for justifying horrors of war...please understand that this is simulated air combat. It left a very different effect on the fighting men of the day compared to land based troops.

Also, would those people trying to draw parrallels between this argument and their issues with various American pollies please calm down. This is a game. Get over yourselves. The problems you peceive in this game are not the fault of pollies.

On another note.....one man I knew in Japan was a kamikaze pilot. He did not want to die. He was willing to die...but not wanting to. Luckily for him there were no planes available and his parent''s in law hid him from Japanese MPs.

baibai


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Krycek
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posted 11-07-2000 05:29 AM     Profile for Krycek     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Do you think using nuclear weapons was justified?

------------------
Koji KATAOKA.
Taka Chutai


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Magic Man
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posted 11-07-2000 06:48 AM     Profile for Magic Man   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Of course, America won the war. It's soldiers were good, polite, loved by women and children. They gave candy to the kids, patted the dogs and were the heroes vanquishing the poor souls from repression.

For God's sake, give it a rest on the patriotic Hollywood fed history. You are probably the same people who thought U-571 (?) was true and that it was the Americans who first got an Enigma machine.

The Japanese pilots were every bit as brave as any other WWII combat pilot - no better, no worse, the same goes for the American pilots. You criticize the Kamikaze pilots but fail to understand the culture and honour that enveloped them - and comparing them with terrorist sacrificial bombers shows your lack of intelect and ignorance. Whether you understand them or not doesn't matter - they did what they did for what they believed was a just cause and died with full honour for their country.

Granted, many crimes were carried out by the Axis sides but the Allies were not always the friendly goodguys you like to think.

So take a break and afford the Japanese pilots the same respect you automatically give your own. And don't think that the war in the Pacific was won solely by the American pilots - I think you'll find a certain bomb or two had something to do with the descision to surrender...

Read some real history, not the spoon fed pro-American Hollywood type that is obviously blocking the space between your ears.

MM


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KDC
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posted 11-07-2000 07:04 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Magic Man, I think in my second post I stated that the Kamikaze pilots were a product of the “…culture and honour that enveloped them” as you put it, so I don’t think you understood what was posted. My point is that in both the Kamikaze pilots and the Terrorists the participants are simply acting at the behest of their governments and/or social forces that compel them to sacrifice their lives. I will not honor, but instead feel pity for any forced to live under the tyranny that robs those of their free will. And I also think that you should look a little closer at history yourself and not buy into this revisionist crap your trying to peddle.
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BalDaddy_123uk
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posted 11-07-2000 07:51 AM     Profile for BalDaddy_123uk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Quote: 'I have no feelings of animosity toward's the Germans or the Japanese, I believe that they fought for their COUNTRIES'

Last year I took my family to Bovington Tank Museum...

While we were waiting near the cafe for SmallBalds to go weewee, I noticed a group of about a dozen German veterans arrive, (how did I know? they were in their 70's wearing black caps with tassels on & talking German!)
When we came back from our tour, they were having a great time chatting & laughing away in a most animated & cordial fashion with a group of British old soldiers.
Just goes to show that the comradeship of people that have seen action overcomes any old grudges, however justified.


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riordan
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posted 11-07-2000 09:28 AM     Profile for riordan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
KDC: While I don't agree with 'Magic Man' on many of his points...I think you miss the boat on his comments on kamikaze. It is not the oppresive gov't that 'forced' all of these pilots to give their lives. While undoubtedly some were, I am sure many were influenced by the Japanese culture alone. Historically giving your life in combat is a high honor in Japanese culture, as well as many other cultures. This I believe is what he is referring to, which is simply a more that has developed over the centuries in their culture.

riordan
139


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KDC
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posted 11-07-2000 10:13 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, I stated in my most recent post that it was the government and/or social forces that compel them. Please reread my post.

And once again, I don’t feel that they were special nor deserving of respect, only pity.


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riordan
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posted 11-07-2000 10:50 AM     Profile for riordan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
KDC: While you are correct that you did state 'social pressure', and that a more would most definatlely qualify as a social pressure, I still think you are missing the point. Your statement regarding these people being forced does not apply. That would be saying that we in America are 'forced' to be married to have children. While it may be the norm, and while I believe it to be detrimental to children otherwise, it is not something we are 'forced' into, except by social pressure. That does not make America a tyranny. Other things make America a tyranny, like...liberal Democrats, for instance

I also understand that there is a difference emotionally between the two. However, the root cause for both mores is the same: they are accepted social values.

riordan
139


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tiamat
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posted 11-07-2000 11:06 AM     Profile for tiamat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well KDC, it's all a problem of culture. How much human is a human beeing?

The man is basically a selfish animal. And culture is the one who rises the human beeing above all the animals.

Would you die trying to protect your familly? If the answer is YES, then why we could not extend this to phrase "die trying to protect all that you love". For that we are human, for beeing capable to die for things that aren't directly related to us (a flour, a bird, a strange child, a country, an ideea), and if you don't believe me, then tell me how much tigers you saw ded trying to protect a deer?

And if the answer is NO, then allow me fell sorry for you...

That's the way I see the Kamikazi pilots, human beeings capable to sacrifice themselves for what they loved and believed in.

That's all, for now at lest.

tiamat out

------------------
A long time ago, in a galaxy far away...


Posts: 158 | From: Bucharest, Romania | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
KDC
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posted 11-07-2000 11:35 AM     Profile for KDC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well Riordan, I won’t touch the comparison between marriage and ritual suicide (!) but my point is that these pilots ARE acting in a way that is entirely consistent with the values of their culture. To use your comparison, anybody who gets married in our culture is acting in a way that is acceptable and normal. The Kamikaze pilots were simply going along with what was expected of them in their society. Now I’ve typed it three times. In the end, if your qualifications for hero are following the roles as set by this type society then that is your opinion.


Tiamat – I’ve reread your post a few times and can’t understand what you want to say, but concerning your instructional post about stealing software, I think I know what your morals (or lack thereof) are…


Posts: 57 | From: Princeton,NJ | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
riordan
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posted 11-07-2000 02:02 PM     Profile for riordan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"My point is that in both the Kamikaze pilots and the Terrorists the participants are simply acting at the behest of their governments and/or social forces that compel them to sacrifice their lives. I will not honor, but instead feel pity for any forced to live under the tyranny that robs those of their free will. And I also think that you should look a little closer at history yourself and not buy into this revisionist crap your trying to peddle."

Pardon me, but what you are saying here is that they are being oppressed and controlled. This is only true in the context of social control. These statements are quite different than you last post.

I only point this out as you continue to assert that I am not reading your posts. I am, but what you said the first time is what I have been targeting, not your revision.
No offense intended...

riordan
139


Posts: 202 | From: SA,TX,US | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
JV_44 Wilder
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posted 11-07-2000 03:07 PM     Profile for JV_44 Wilder   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think some of the cartoon cutscenes add a bit of atmosphere. They seem to tell both sides of the story in a balanced way. BUT...We do live in a politically correct world that annoys us all from time to time. There is no denying that the world is now a different place than it was and sensibilities have changed...I would have preferred a good old stock footage intro showing the war as it was. Some of the scenes you see of flak and stuff are awesome and frightening at the same time and would have given the game a more mature feel. The start to FS-SDOE is a great example of an atmospheric and thought-provoking way that these grown up games can be introduced.

As for the rest of the game...well its a mixture of greatness and glaring inconsistencies that can spoil the experience....For instance the graphics are well done, not the best, but good..damage ect is well done except for the one hit effects flight model thing. BUT the wingman AI is rubbish especially on the US side...In a mission tonight I was supposed to escort a transport when the field was clear...sooooo..I fly around like a mad thing downing zeroes left right and centre only to be left with one and no ammo so I bug around him trying to coax my wingmen to down him (rejoin..attack...rejoin attack etc etc etc)...Would they heck as like all they did was fly around until he'd downed them all and then the little bugga crashed himself.....I mean had they ran out of ammo too cos if they had they must of been firing at the sea...in 20ish mission I got 37 kills and not ONE of my wingmen got any...I mean come on!

If I'm at fault pleeezzeeeeee tell me how to get my wingmen to fight goddamn them!


Posts: 91 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Crash!
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posted 11-07-2000 04:50 PM     Profile for Crash!   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I for one think the opening scene is refreshingly original. The music is stirring. When the American pilot is hit, he thinks he is going to die and his life flashes in front of him. We see the scenes from his life and can relate. I see this more as an American slanted thing, vice the other way around. We probably couldn't relate to scenes from a Japanese pilot's life. Apart from some minor bugs, this whole package is worth every penny! By the way, why are all the Brits so surly? Is it the weather over there this time of year?
Posts: 54 | From: Schenectady, NY, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged

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