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Author Topic: Why no kamikazes hurts the sim...
ivanmoe
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posted 10-23-2000 08:28 PM     Profile for ivanmoe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Leaving the kamikazes out of the sim may have been PC but it hurts the game (at least the U.S.campaign game).

I say this because it was only late in the war, during the Phillipines/Iwo/Okinawa/Home Island operations that the U.S.fleet came to stay. By eliminating these operations you killed the possibility of providing players with the opportunity of experiencing the day by day stress and attrition of a sustained effort by Carrier-based elements. Any of the earlier engagements are gonna last only a day or two, with players getting in only a sortie or two.

Ivanmoe


Posts: 15 | From: | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
THEGhostrider
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posted 10-23-2000 08:48 PM     Profile for THEGhostrider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Right on! Bring on the Kamikazes! PC? What happened to historical accuracy?! I think that if the Kamikaze corps was omitted because it is "PC", then we have dishonored the sacrifices of the men on both sides of the conflict, the young Kamikaze pilots who laid down their lives for their homeland, and the US fighter jocks who fought and died for their buddies on the ships they protected, their families back home, and their love of freedom.

Maybe we can figure out(hack)a way to create missions where the Kamikaze is the important tactical element that he should be. The scenery for those areas exists, the ships and planes exist, there must be a way.


Posts: 72 | From: Stansbury Park, UT, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Seawolf
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posted 10-23-2000 08:55 PM     Profile for Seawolf   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
well hop in a plane and.......... BONZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

personally it's not a big deal to me at all. If I was japanese I wouldn't particularly want that part in this sim either. Kinda of embarresing really. Being such a desperate act and all.


Posts: 1322 | From: Clearwater, Fl. USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Nimits
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posted 10-23-2000 09:05 PM     Profile for Nimits   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually, I don't know that they mind that much. Some are even rather sorry they lost (not that they started the war in the first place.)

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ivanmoe
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posted 10-23-2000 09:07 PM     Profile for ivanmoe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The fact of the matter is that there are very few historical examples of carriers going on station and duking it out with land based forces.

The U.S. did it in WW2 in the campaigns I listed in the original post, in Korea, Vietnam, and in the Persian Gulf War.

The Brits did it in the Falklands War (now that was operation "shoestring").

The point being that all of the operations have the carrier-based assets functioning essentially as hit-and-run raiders.

What we've ended up with for the campaign game (at least for the carrier pilot) is a series of ops strung together separated by months of inactivity.

Btw: after two of those operations you'd have been back in Pensacola or Corpus Christi as an flight instructor.

Ivanmoe


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THEGhostrider
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posted 10-23-2000 10:27 PM     Profile for THEGhostrider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Right on Ivanmoe. Seawolf, two comments - 1. A bons(z)ai is a small, pruned, decorative tree. The Japanese battle cry was Banzai!
2. If you make a kamikaze attack on a ship yourself, you will quickly be greeted with the "game over" screen. Where's the fun in that? It would be cool, however, to fly CAP in a Corsair over the USS Bunker Hill off of Okinawa, and see if you can change history by splashing the Kamikazes before they ventilate your flight deck!

Posts: 72 | From: Stansbury Park, UT, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Slingshot
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posted 10-23-2000 10:49 PM     Profile for Slingshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Lol.. Bonzai That reminds me of that Karate Kid Miyagi's Bonsai.

Maybe in CFS 4 or 5 (hopefully CFS 3 will be WW1 biplanes/triplanes sim) they'll implement kamikaze NPCs. What, I'm called to do the kamikaze? Never! In your dreams.. I'll quit the Imperial navy and join my virtual uncle's fishery business.



Posts: 94 | From: NYC | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Warspite
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posted 10-24-2000 01:37 AM     Profile for Warspite   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No Kamikazes? LOL...I did a Kamikaze flight with my Jap Zero. Right smack into the side of a South Dakota Class BB! Boom, you should have seen it explode!

------------------
-Warspite-

CFS2 Mission Storage Page
http://hometown.aol.com/warspite2/cfs2wmsp.html


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Pasha
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posted 10-24-2000 02:26 AM     Profile for Pasha   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
1. Make a new mission.

2. Make a US Carrrier battle group.

3. Make your flight leave from the deck of that carrier, you are flying CAP.

4. Make several Japanese units, with different planes, anti-shipping.

5. Their last waypoint ends on the deck of your carrier, with the ditch command for some, the bail command for some, and the land anywhere command for the rest.

Make sure you make the last waypoints at the lowest alt. (165)

A few will smack into your group, making you very happy, and more than a bit silly.

And I really think the whole manipulation thingy up this thread is more than a bit childish, the deal is dogfighting.. I barely take those dumb excuses... jees..

Pasha


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Peter N
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posted 10-24-2000 07:00 AM     Profile for Peter N     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, it'd be fun to make a Kamikaze mission just for the reason that you finally get to use the not-so-common mission goal; "You must not survive"

/petern


Posts: 28 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bard
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posted 10-24-2000 09:19 AM     Profile for Bard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasha:
1. Make a new mission.

2. Make a US Carrrier battle group.

3. Make your flight leave from the deck of that carrier, you are flying CAP.

4. Make several Japanese units, with different planes, anti-shipping.

5. Their last waypoint ends on the deck of your carrier, with the ditch command for some, the bail command for some, and the land anywhere command for the rest.

Make sure you make the last waypoints at the lowest alt. (165)

A few will smack into your group, making you very happy, and more than a bit silly.

And I really think the whole manipulation thingy up this thread is more than a bit childish, the deal is dogfighting.. I barely take those dumb excuses... jees..

Pasha


you feeling happy and silly pasha?


Posts: 170 | From: Vancouver Canada | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
BadBooze
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posted 10-24-2000 09:35 AM     Profile for BadBooze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Guys --- well I think we know that there are quite a few things that need attention in CFS2 as a first revision....BEFORE MS puts the effort into Kamikazes...would you not say???

Like getting the AC-carriers the right size and where they stay in the water!!!! Some nice looking correct carriers would be a super treat !!!!

LOL ---- Keep Flying !!!!


Posts: 141 | From: San Ramon, CA. USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Zarathael
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posted 10-24-2000 09:38 AM     Profile for Zarathael     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'll go on the record as saying that I am totally against anything being done anywhere at any time for the reason of being politically correct. The definition of being politically correct is that you lie to someone because you're afraid of hurting their feeeeelings. I'd rather be hurt or embarrassed than lied to. I for one think it should be in the sim, at a later stage. the period that the sim currently covers doesn't go far enough to include them, unless you want to include Lt. Tomonaga's dive into the Hornet. Nevertheless, i love the sim. You can put Kamikazes in if you want, or not, I'll still play. It may be just about dogfighting, but if they can make it about more than that, then I'll be immensely pleased. Why should we limit what can be done here?
Posts: 28 | From: Sand Gap, Kentucky, USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged

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