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Author Topic: So, how easy is it to "cheat" in online flying?
Spin Doctor
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Member # 77

posted 10-17-2000 05:11 AM     Profile for Spin Doctor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm getting the impression that CFS2 is very modifiable. So much so that if you know what you're doing, you can make any plane do anything you want. Is this true? If so, will there be a "standard" FM that will be used in online flying?

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Objects on your six may be closer than they appear...

Spin Dr.


Posts: 321 | From: Lusby, Md | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
BadgerDog
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Member # 7162

posted 10-17-2000 05:51 AM     Profile for BadgerDog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Spin Doctor.....

I am very new to CFS2 and was actually frustrated with its FM until I downloaded "Wells" excellent ongoing modifications to the plane set provided by MS. I think he's an aeronautical engineering type, but in any event, he's been refining them constantly over the last week. They get better with each revision as he learns the nuances of how the CFS2 .AIR files and .CFG files are structured. If you're a real pilot you might enjoy them. Note: Ignore a character on here called "pasha". I'm not sure what his problem is, but I've also seen his posts in the flightsim newsgroups. To him the glass is always half empty and he seems to offer little constructive comment about anything. He trashed Wells' flight models in another thread with little explanation and never bothered to reply to any questions about what he thought was incorrect. Wells most recent iteration is v1.2 and it's as close to real flight of heavy WWII war birds as you're going to get with CFS2, given ultimate dependency on MS's flight physics programming code which he would have no access to.

There's no question in my mind that The Zone is hacksville incarnate. I decided to go on-line last night into the MS Zone and try some multiplayer of CFS2. I haven't used the Zone is years and was astonished at the lack of systems integrity in the arenas. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think MS has any server checks for modified plane performance at all?

I was in an 8 man arena flying an F4U straight and level at over 325 Kts, having come out of a dive. A zeke, perhaps an A6M5b was at Co-Alt and coming straight down my 12 clock. I evaded his attempt at an HO and kept going, by this time somewhere higher than 330 Kts. I was concerned about his next move, so I used the recently discovered F3 (duh!) view which turns off all cockpit artwork and had a clear unobstructed view of my six. I was astounded to see him turn 180 degrees, then proceed to close on me at a very high rate of speed. I've never seen any plane, let alone a zeke be able to reverse at high speed with no E loss, than accelerate like an F16 towards another aircraft already doing over 325 Kts Co-Alt.

Later, I ran into the same zeke who was firing and pinging me from my six at almost 1,800? I can hardly see anything at that range let alone get hits off-line at anything more than 300-700.

When I asked on the public chat about these characteristics, I was told that I simply "sucked" and it was in essence superior flying. I realize that it's not polite to accuse anyone of "hacking", but as a real life pilot with aerobatics experience, plus a five year lineage flying server checked and validated front ends like Warbirds and Aces High, I clearly recognize the difference between good flying and aircraft clearly performing outside their programmed flight envelopes.

So, what am I missing. I don't think much as I had the distinct feeling that there are arenas there where the challenge is who can build the best .AIR file as opposed to who can fly a realistic WWII combat flight simulation using aircraft characteristics true to the time period. I would suggest if you're looking for a level playing field its about flying with groups of people you know and trust as opposed to simply logging onto the Zone and hoping to find everyone playing above board.

Regards,
BadgerDog

[This message has been edited by BadgerDog (edited 10-17-2000).]


Posts: 15 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
pops
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Member # 129

posted 10-17-2000 07:08 AM     Profile for pops   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Fly with people you know and wear your....

This is always a potential problem with an open architecture. And as soon as you throw the competitive portion in, it can get really controversial. Darn! there always is a trade-off.


Posts: 52 | From: Edgewood, Kentucky USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Sidewinder062
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Member # 1767

posted 10-17-2000 08:30 AM     Profile for Sidewinder062   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Badgerdog, Have you tried EAW at the Zone? Seems to be fairly "even" with regard to performance. I was looking forward to CFS2 online, but not so much now; seems rather like driving at Le Mans with only one class.
Posts: 400 | From: Marshall, Texas, USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Spin Doctor
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Member # 77

posted 10-17-2000 08:57 AM     Profile for Spin Doctor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wow, that kinda sucks. I seem to remember that EAW only allowed certain matched flight models to be flown in certain servers, although I haven't tried that in a great while. Maybe we could start a couple of servers were only Wells FM is allowed or Stock or unlimited modifications. I suppose, of course there will be those who have no honor and invade a server with ultramods, but what can you do. Maybe someone will come up with a good security system.

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Objects on your six may be closer than they appear...

Spin Dr.


Posts: 321 | From: Lusby, Md | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Doc Halliday
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Member # 1242

posted 10-17-2000 09:45 AM     Profile for Doc Halliday     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Spin Doctor,

I have been flying CFS since Jan 2000. Prior to that was EAW and Janes WW2F. All excellent sims with thier own rewarding qualities. I do not fly on line, but I read most of the posts...CFS has the capabilitiy to configure a Stearman to fly at 1600 Knots and carry literally dozens of weapons...and yes there are those out there who love that sort of thing. But there are some games that are completely restricted to "stock" a/c. Some squadrons actually require you to d/l their ac for online use to keep the field even. Don't get too discouraged. If you like the online thing, look around, there are plenty of those "restricted" areas where you will not run into the modified ac.
Interestingly enough, WW2F just started getting into user modified a/c and all of a sudden the posts came flying in about "cheating" when on line flying...Something that's been rampant in the CFS community for years, that why the restricted games developed.

Happy Flying


Posts: 121 | From: Syracuse, NY | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
gregoryp
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Member # 719

posted 10-17-2000 10:10 AM     Profile for gregoryp   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There is a lot of cheating everywhere. We did come up with an Anti-Cheat program for CFS1 that worked for our Ladder. Unfortunately, there are a lot of non-Ladder people that feel they have the right to cheat and took great offense to the program. In fact a few “Holier than thou” squadrons who said it was not needed used the Auto-Follow cheat to cheat.

I doubt we’ll put the effort into a anti-cheat program for the general public.

If you want to learn how to edit AIR files go here: http://home.socal.rr.com/flighttest/

gregoryp


Posts: 31 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
SR
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Member # 7183

posted 10-17-2000 04:40 PM     Profile for SR   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
BadgerDog: Next time you try flying on the zone , look to see if the RESTRICT setting is on . That way the program checks for modifided files . As you were flying UNRESTRICTED ( only way to with the Wells updated files installed ) you then leave yourself open to the cheats . Only fly with your buddies or make damn sure the RESTRICT is on , best to host yourself with the settings on before you host . Program will save it for you after one host I believe .

Yes gregoryp , people did use that cheat , we found out more about it "after" my old squad moved to FA and AH . But check some “Holier than thou” squads and you will find they do well were ever they fly because they didn't cheat themselfs by cheating . We have seen some though that had some "major" problems moving from that sime

While you made a nice program , for zone play it was a pain in the ass . I for one after a bit didn't care if they cheated , they didn't get any skill from it and soon went on to other games But I do have your new air dp files on your site for CFS1 now I have a air file that you can at least turn some in a P47 , thanks

Be sure to try it again guys , they told us that microsoft was going to fix problems that they were using before to cheat . But as always , they in time will come up with new ones to be sure . As in all online games look for the players wearing there "colors" as they have a rep to defend . Plus look for the 100% games or should I say "HARD"

OH yes , they use HUD view on zone with the "outside" view of the plane "turnoff" so most WB's or AH moves won't work no place to hide on CFS1 or 2

Me<---- I played one hell of a lot of CFS1 online but won't this or any other version because once you fly with the cockpit on damn hard to go back . My wish was to have Microsoft to have a option to have the host make other players have it on . Like unlimited ammo set to limited etc . Or does it ?? I doubt it though .

SR

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Airbuddha - Not cool? Unpopular with the ladies? No problem. Bash Microsoft, chicks will dig ya.


Posts: 142 | From: Michigan , USA | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
von_M
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Member # 181

posted 10-17-2000 05:48 PM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BadgerDog:
Hi Spin Doctor.....

I am very new to CFS2 and was actually frustrated with its FM until I downloaded "Wells" excellent ongoing modifications to the plane set provided by MS. I think he's an aeronautical engineering type, but in any event, he's been refining them constantly over the last week. They get better with each revision as he learns the nuances of how the CFS2 .AIR files and .CFG files are structured. If you're a real pilot you might enjoy them. Note: Ignore a character on here called "pasha". I'm not sure what his problem is, but I've also seen his posts in the flightsim newsgroups. To him the glass is always half empty and he seems to offer little constructive comment about anything. He trashed Wells' flight models in another thread with little explanation and never bothered to reply to any questions about what he thought was incorrect. Wells most recent iteration is v1.2 and it's as close to real flight of heavy WWII war birds as you're going to get with CFS2, given ultimate dependency on MS's flight physics programming code which he would have no access to.

There's no question in my mind that The Zone is hacksville incarnate. I decided to go on-line last night into the MS Zone and try some multiplayer of CFS2. I haven't used the Zone is years and was astonished at the lack of systems integrity in the arenas. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think MS has any server checks for modified plane performance at all?

I was in an 8 man arena flying an F4U straight and level at over 325 Kts, having come out of a dive. A zeke, perhaps an A6M5b was at Co-Alt and coming straight down my 12 clock. I evaded his attempt at an HO and kept going, by this time somewhere higher than 330 Kts. I was concerned about his next move, so I used the recently discovered F3 (duh!) view which turns off all cockpit artwork and had a clear unobstructed view of my six. I was astounded to see him turn 180 degrees, then proceed to close on me at a very high rate of speed. I've never seen any plane, let alone a zeke be able to reverse at high speed with no E loss, than accelerate like an F16 towards another aircraft already doing over 325 Kts Co-Alt.

Later, I ran into the same zeke who was firing and pinging me from my six at almost 1,800? I can hardly see anything at that range let alone get hits off-line at anything more than 300-700.

When I asked on the public chat about these characteristics, I was told that I simply "sucked" and it was in essence superior flying. I realize that it's not polite to accuse anyone of "hacking", but as a real life pilot with aerobatics experience, plus a five year lineage flying server checked and validated front ends like Warbirds and Aces High, I clearly recognize the difference between good flying and aircraft clearly performing outside their programmed flight envelopes.

So, what am I missing. I don't think much as I had the distinct feeling that there are arenas there where the challenge is who can build the best .AIR file as opposed to who can fly a realistic WWII combat flight simulation using aircraft characteristics true to the time period. I would suggest if you're looking for a level playing field its about flying with groups of people you know and trust as opposed to simply logging onto the Zone and hoping to find everyone playing above board.

Regards,
BadgerDog

[This message has been edited by BadgerDog (edited 10-17-2000).]



You could always join us on Kali. (there are quite a few CFS 2 flyers there)

One time $20 charge, but it has free upgrades for life, and the guys I fly with are a good bunch, and would never cheat with the threat of instant death (or something suitable). Also, there is no one there under the age of 25 (to my knowledge) so that really helps on the L33T D00D syndrome found in today's youth.

We're also considering using the new FM's, since the way it is now the Zero is dominating (not that I mind being a Jap flyer ).

If you have anymore questions feel free to email me, [email protected]

von Manstein

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Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


Posts: 459 | From: London, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
von_M
Member
Member # 181

posted 10-17-2000 06:01 PM     Profile for von_M   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oops, Kali information can be found here http://www.kali.net/
And we (I/JG52, VMF124 etc) can be found on server #61, the SimHQ Server.

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Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.. -From the Odes of Horace.


Posts: 459 | From: London, Ontario. Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Ajax
Member
Member # 1986

posted 10-17-2000 06:41 PM     Profile for Ajax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CFS2 is compatible with Kali? Nice!

But, von_M, on the other hand, maybe CFran and Donster won't like a CFS2 convert invasion

BTW, I'm 20, can I fly with you guys?
No L33T D00D, I promise!

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-Ajax out

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"Je suis un Canadien québécois, un Français canadien-français. Un Américain du Nord français. Un francophone québécois canadien. On est des Canadiens américains francophones."-Elvis Gratton
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"You always use violence. I should've ordered glutinous rice chicken" -Anonymous


Posts: 2309 | From: | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged

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