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Author Topic: Flight characteristics of real AH-64
Member # 4152

posted 05-02-2000 11:54 PM     Profile for Justwin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've just read an interesting post on AH-64 Apache's flight characteristics, and
would like to have some comments on that. I saw the post in one combat
simulation BBS in Japan.

The post was made during the discussion about the realism of Gunship!'s flight
model. When some members (not me, because I don't have Gunship! itself) were
claiming that "Apache flies like an UFO in Gunship!" or something like that,
then this Flight_Sim_Expert (so he thinks himself) appears all of a sudden.

According to him, because AH-64 series' flight control system is fully digitized,
it flies totally solid and stable, and when you fly Apache you feel no sense of
floating_in_the_air. Moreover, you can fly Apache without spilling a glass of
champagne in the cockpit if you want. This is true because (he said) he heard
this story from real Apache pilot in the "unofficial" party. Unfortunatery I
don't know what kind of party this is, nor he didn't mention that. So this whole
story could be B*L#SH&T. Anyway...

As I am totally ignorant in real plane's flight characteristics, I don't have
any reason to doubt his "treatise". However, I would like to have more world-
wide comments on this so that I might be able to have more perspective point of
view on the flight characteristics of modern combat helicopters.

Thanks for your attention on this matter.

[This message has been edited by Justwin (edited 05-03-2000).]

Posts: 3 | From: Tokyo, Japan | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
Member # 311

posted 05-03-2000 12:32 AM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well I have spent a fair chunk of time talking with AH-64 pilots and some of what he says is bull. I do not want to get into another argument over this stuff but let me tell you that after 10 hours in most any helo I could fly you around without spilling your drink as well. That really doesn't mean a squat in the grand scheme of things.

From all accounts the AH-64 has very sensitive controls that take time to get used to. This is over other helos that by almost any ones standards are very touchy. The thing I have heard from more then one AH-64 pilot is that if you have thought where you want to move the cyclic you have already gone to far.


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 4152

posted 05-03-2000 11:57 PM     Profile for Justwin     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for your valuable comment, Zero G.

It was not my intention neither, of starting endless arguments like "how
realistic flight models of those helos in sim X is" or "real-life pilot vs. RC
pilot" and so on. Someone always disagrees with someone. However, I DO trust and
appreciate information from real-life pilots like you.

I'm really looking forward to your FM mod for EECH soon. Keep good work!

Posts: 3 | From: Tokyo, Japan | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged

posted 05-05-2000 09:40 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I am an Apache pilot.
RE champagne in the cockpit: the aircraft rattles the hell out of you. And alcohol is prohibited within 50 ft of the aircraft.
RE sensitive flight controls: pilot inputs are computer augmented once off the ground, but it still is not as squirley as a light single engine, like a jetranger. The controls are responsive, but not unstable.
RE flight model accuracy in PC sims: You can't feel it, so who cares? Close enough is fine. The value in these sims is the systems modelling and the accuracy of tactics and doctrine represented.
Enjoy them for that.

IP: Logged
Member # 350

posted 05-05-2000 10:30 AM     Profile for RanRodee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Saw an interesting Show on Discovery Wings (digital cable) last night.
A special on Helicopters in their Mega Machines series. Very impressive.
They had some very cool interviews with pilots from all over the world, incl. US, Germany, etc.
The German Messerschmit/Boelkow-Blohm 109 Helo needs to find its place in a Simulation soon. Wonder why it has been overlooked for so long.

These pilots had some interesting stuff to say, and it was interesting to hear that (I knew that before, but I would like to point that out again) there is NO autopilot in a Helo at all. Its handy-work from take-off to landing.

If you get a chance to catch a re-run of that show, watch it. Lots of Apache in-flight in-cockpit shots.


Visit the OklaCity GameDomain. Stop by and populate the Forums :)

Posts: 215 | From: Oklahoma CIty, OK, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 198

posted 05-05-2000 03:28 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It is my belief that the autopilot in todays sims is to be seen as the CP/G taking over.

CH depicts this quite good with speech like "I have the controls", "You have the controls".

Posts: 1556 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 1753

posted 05-06-2000 05:59 AM     Profile for Nolan     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Anyone have any pics or info on where to find some info on that Messerschmit/Boelkow-Blohm 109?


Posts: 307 | From: Lund, Sweden | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Member # 4533

posted 05-06-2000 08:28 AM     Profile for sKiGhDoC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
also most helos (including the lowly UH-1 and OH-58s that I get to fly) have "force trim" this is not to be confused with autopilot, but it does help to reduce workload quite a bit by holding a particular attitude for you. As long as no other influences occur, of course (like the guy in the back of the Huey sticking his hand out the door - this does indeed cause enuf drag to make you turn to his side!)

sKiGhDoC, OUT!

"taurus oculus"

[This message has been edited by sKiGhDoC (edited 05-06-2000).]

Posts: 48 | From: Ft Hood, Texas | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged

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