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Author Topic: C-H: Weird Waypoint Glitch / Dumb Wingies
Groucho
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posted 04-24-2000 11:10 AM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Noticed something horribly annoying during the Taiwan campaign (and I'm I've seen it elsewhere.)...
I'm using v1.8B.
There are some flights/missions that get stuck in a mode where the only availiable waypoints are the initial "A" and the ending "W". The Choppers are stuck in tight loop around the ships (or airfield), with no way out other than hand flying to the target and navigating by dead reckoning.
Anyone else seen this? Or is it my misspent youth catching up with me again?
Also, is it just me, or is friendly AI a bit lacking? I mid-air with these guys constantly...usually after cleaning up an enemy FARP or doing some other really cool, spectacular thing. Idiot wingies pose a bigger hazard IMHO than any air-defense system the bad guys can put up. Too bad there is not a "Back way-the-hell-up-and-give-me-some-freaking-elbow-room" command other than "Hold Position"...
Thoughts?

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


Posts: 530 | From: Bakersfield, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Mojo 16 163
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posted 04-24-2000 12:34 PM     Profile for Mojo 16 163   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, I have also experienced the waypoint problem. I can often access the other waypoints after a while of looping around the base trying to avoid collisions with my wingmen. The wingmen are especially dangerous if you quickly turn to engage a target at your 6. I often give them an echlon formation command and try to always turn away from them. Hopefully, they'll "fix it in the patch."

Mojo 16 163


Posts: 68 | From: | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Groucho
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posted 04-24-2000 01:13 PM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks, Mojo, for the reality check. Sounds like th WP thing is definitly a bug and not Operator Error.
Love this sim (especially in tandem w/ A-H), but playing tag with your own people is getting OLD...

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


Posts: 530 | From: Bakersfield, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 04-24-2000 01:59 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This is a very sad post to read.
Hint: V1.08B= Version 1.08 BETA. If you would go buy the game you would not have to worry about old bugs that were fixed quite some time ago. BTW when the patch comes out it will not work on that copy of the C-H

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Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Groucho
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posted 04-24-2000 02:18 PM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry that post saddens you, Zero-G. You must be a very sensitive soul. I'll take that into account before I ask a question next time.
I noted the version number for a reason...to find out if there were any known bugs in it. There obviously are, and thank you for letting me know that. I was supplied this version by Empire-US last week, and assumed that the "B" meant beta for a US version- similar to what Empire/Rowan did with MiG Alley. Razorworks has been unresponsive to my emails, so I floated the question here, hoping to get an answer.
I did. It worked.
That bit of unpleasantness over with, which of the issues I mentioned has been addressed in the patch? The waypoint loop or the fly-by-braile wingman? Both?
Thanks.

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


Posts: 530 | From: Bakersfield, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Mojo 16 163
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posted 04-24-2000 03:40 PM     Profile for Mojo 16 163   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Zero G,

I have the retail version which I purchased from the UK and I have experienced the WP and Wingman collision issues.

Really, it's just a minor issue with an exceptionally well crafted sim. Hopefully, it can be fixed at some point

Mojo 16 163

[This message has been edited by Mojo 16 163 (edited 04-24-2000).]


Posts: 68 | From: | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 04-24-2000 04:07 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well the Close flying wingmen are helped in the patch.. I have not seen or do not understand the waypoint bug... If it is what I think you are talking about (before you get in the air they run around you??) They now wait for you to take off before they do.

I still do not think you should be reporting bugs from the beta version in a public forum like you did... Ask for an email chat with someone who has played in the beta or wait for a response from Razorworks. What email address are you using?

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Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Groucho
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posted 04-24-2000 05:01 PM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Zero-G...
I contend that I broke no agreement or violated any protocol in airing some questions I have about a simulation that was sent to me to be reveiwed- not beta tested.
I am glad that you answered my questions- I consider you to be the reigning helo expert on this forum- but please don't slam my propriety in trying to get a reality check. I don't have the Razorworks attempted contact here at work- it's at home- but if you could help me get to the inside that would be appreciated. I think C-H is easily the best of the current crop of rotorhead sims...doing an active ping to distinguish operator error from bug is part of getting an honest reveiw done, in my opinion.
You, of course, are entitled to your own.
If you don't feel comfortable about airing this in public please email me so we can discuss it further. My email address is [email protected] .

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


Posts: 530 | From: Bakersfield, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
ricski
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posted 04-24-2000 05:28 PM     Profile for ricski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Completely avoiding any "Did he buy the game or is he an evil pirate?" debate, the wingie collisions can be much reduced by selecting "Column" as your formation. That way they won't be next to you when you turn sharply towards them, they'll be safely behind instead.

As for the waypoint bug, I think I see that, but it occurs because a helicopter is already on the pad that the airborne one wants to land on.

Other variations of the problem as in the continuous loop, can sometimes be solved by putting the autopilot on and letting it sort everything out for a minute.

Richard

[This message has been edited by ricski (edited 04-24-2000).]


Posts: 106 | From: West Sussex, England | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Groucho
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posted 04-24-2000 05:42 PM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Aaaarrrr...where there be a pirate, matey?
Thanks, Ricski. I can assure you that I'm not a pirate- don't let the eye patch and peg leg fool you.

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


Posts: 530 | From: Bakersfield, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Groucho
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posted 04-24-2000 05:46 PM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Nope, no buccaneers here. Just reviewers.
And that's worse.

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


Posts: 530 | From: Bakersfield, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
LIONPRIDE
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posted 04-24-2000 08:52 PM     Profile for LIONPRIDE   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
PIRATE!!?? Did someone say PIRATE??!!...he he....Prepare to be boarded by the U.S. Coast Guard....woo hoo!

I also agree with the column formation. It's one of the first things I do when I get airbourn. It helps to keep your wingies from running into yah. It DOES get a bit "hairy" when you get to BZ and tell them to attack your target. Hint: Switch to echelon left or right if you intend on using your group as one unit to attack. Then go back to column when your ready to leave. To keep from running into your wingies when leaving your BZ...hit the AutoPilot right away...it'll stear yah around em'.

To get the waypoints to update....I just let the Autopilot sort it out eventually. Like it was said..."A smll glitch for sucha good simm".


*

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A wise man once said..." To fly is heaven, to hover is divine"


Posts: 331 | From: United States of America | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 04-24-2000 09:15 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Groucho, I will send you an email

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Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Groucho
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posted 04-24-2000 09:34 PM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Great ZG, thanx!

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


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Duckman
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posted 04-25-2000 04:52 AM     Profile for Duckman     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zero G:
This is a very sad post to read.
Hint: V1.08B= Version 1.08 BETA.

Zero G,

with 1.08b being an inofficial version and people here talking about having 1.06, which one is the official version then, or which are officially sold ?
I believe having a 1.02c which seems to be rather outdated in this case.
Which versions will the upcoming patch address then ? If it only addresses versions like 1.04 or something like this, people with earlier versions might lack some improvements which were applied between eg 1.02 and 1.04.

Thanks,

Oliver "Duckman" Fels

[This message has been edited by Duckman (edited 04-25-2000).]


Posts: 63 | From: Friedrichshafen, Lake Constance, Germany | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 04-25-2000 05:20 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Version numbers (particualy pre-release ones) are for internal reference and code tracking only. They are *not* sequential and it is wrong to read anything into them.

The important thing is, when someone sends a crash.log for version 1.x.y the map file for version 1.x.y can be referenced to identify the cause of the exception error. Different companies use different version naming conventions for source-control.

There are three numeric fields seperated by a full stop and an alphanumeric suffix in the build indentification string for C-H. If you wish to embark on discussion of version identification the please use the full and correct identification.

But it sounds like the original poster is in possession of a preview beta build (if it's not on a printed CD it's pre release).
Any person writing a review based on pre-release build should indicate as such.



Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 04-25-2000 05:41 AM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Duckman:
Zero G,

with 1.08b being an inofficial version and people here talking about having 1.06, which one is the official version then, or which are officially sold ?
I believe having a 1.02c which seems to be rather outdated in this case.


1.02c is the retail version of EECH it is the version that the patch will work on. If people are saying that they are playing 1.06b (this was the first preview version sent out) or 1.08b they are playing a preview copy or a warez version of the game. The patch will not work on them and they both have several known issues that have been fixed since.

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Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Groucho
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posted 04-25-2000 06:29 AM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gentlemen-
The version I am running is v1.8.0B - honest, I swear- says so right on the splash screen. It was not obtained through warez, some guy on a street corner, straight out of a sea-land container, or any other nefarious means...it was supplied to me by Empire Interactive press relations early last week. Once again, I was not supplied this sim with the intent or pretext of being a beta tester, and it sure would have been nice if Empire had informed me that my copy was a pre-UK release version. Now I know. Flexman, you are correct- if I am reiewing a beta copy, I should and WILL note it as such. This is one reason for posting here (besides getting a reality check on some very minor bugs)- I am attempting to get a fix on what level of beta my copy is. As I said, I thought that the later sequential number meant that it may be a beta for the US release- meaning post UK release...thank you for pointing out that betas are not necessarily sequential. Learn something new every day.
Now that we have an IFF signal from it...
Zero-G, could you please email me a contact at Razorworks- I have no direct contact there. My questions have been going through an Empire PR type who says he is forwarding them to the UK...
Once again, my email is: [email protected]

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


Posts: 530 | From: Bakersfield, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 04-25-2000 07:32 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If it's a boxed version then fair enough. If it's a just a CD you got then it's pre-release.

(No betas were leaked as warez. That version was probably snatched at the duplicators much to the delight of all who worked hard on the project).

But it's worth mentioning that the issues in the original post are still valid. You will crash into your wingmen of you perform egressive manuvers without attention unless you take care to give orders to your wingmen to re-position (wedge or echelon etc).

And you can get stuck in the "taxi" take-off waypoint loop if you change waypoints to the last waypoint whilest still over your landing area. I don't think it's much different in release and in the 1.2.2 build (patch/update whatever you want to call it) the waypoints were re-labeled to avoid confusion between taxi waypoints and mission waypoints.

If Groucho got his copy via Empire US, then they probably only had that pre-release version available at that time. Don't blame Steve.

Regards,


Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Groucho
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posted 04-25-2000 09:25 AM     Profile for Groucho     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks Flexman.
I've pinged Empire-US and asked them what the scoop on this particular version is. It is not on a printed disk. If anyone cares by the time I find out I will advise as to what it is on this forum when I get an answer from Empire-US.
I've adapted my tactics to keep the wingman love-taps to a minunum...I usually tell them to "Hold Position" some distance away when I move in close to sweep a target area. If I need supporting fire I call it in.
I have noticed that the sim "likes" it better if you fly (or let the AP fly) the taxi waypoint(s) first before punching the next point in. This does prevent a similar problem to what I was describing. However, I have seen this "loop" occur in flights that have had NO human input...most notably on a Marine Strike flight of two Ka-52s off of the carrier in the Taiwan campaign.
Not a showstopper by any means...just weird.

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Bob "Groucho" Marks
http://machpit.homepage.com


Posts: 530 | From: Bakersfield, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 04-25-2000 12:34 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hmm, I was about to say something but I don't want a 7 year NDA next time. :-)

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