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Author Topic: Sensation of helo flight
Jackal
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Member # 1202

posted 04-03-2000 06:41 AM     Profile for Jackal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just installed C-H on my office PC and had a few colleagues looking curious over my shoulder. Just for interest, I let them all fly for 5 minutes in KA-52 TA, then in C-H and asked all, which sim gave them the best sensation of helo flight.
The answer was surprising, KA-52 TA got 5 votes (incl. mine) , C-H got zero.
Why my vote for TA ? Well, flight in C-H feels smooth, static, easy going, almost like on rails. In TA it feels more dynamic, that's what I expect helo flights. Probably the slight "vibrating" and shaking cockpit, together with the richer sounds and the start/shutdown sequence contribute to this.
I had a helo fun flight a few days ago and compared to this, C-H doesn't make it to catch the dynamic. Please note, I'm only talking about the feel, not any physical interpretation of the flight model. And these are, of course, only impressions from non-helo-professionals.

C-H might have the more physically correct flight model, but that must not mean, the sensation of helo flight is well caught.
And now probably I get punished by all the hardcore guys here
Jackal


Posts: 220 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gill
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posted 04-03-2000 06:56 AM     Profile for Gill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I dont have either sims.....I dont like getting two or three new sims all at once.
So Ive decided to wait for C/H(N.American release)
I think what you did was a good acid test of the feeling of flight.
Most of us havent flown the real-deal. So when someone steps up to the plate who isnt "sophisticated" in his assesment of flight-sims I think you get a simple, yet honest opinion about the feeling of flight.
I will try your test when C/H arrives. I'll download the TA demo and see what I get.
But for me the sensation of flight is only part of the puzzle(albeit, and big one)
I think a desktop simulator is succesful on the sum of its parts, not just one or two aspects.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your little test with us.
I'd be curious to hear your opinions on both sims after you have had them for a while longer.
Thanks

Posts: 154 | From: | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
RanRodee
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posted 04-03-2000 08:46 AM     Profile for RanRodee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have to agree on the KA-52 TA feeling... The sensation of speed in this sim is just stunning. I esp. like the cockpit-shake when going fast; it adds a lot to the immersion. The tank-hunt at night with flying tracers and NVGs on is nicely done as well. And the engine start-up and shut-down sequences makes it even nicer.
I like this sim.
I think the campaign mode with the team mgnt. and maintnance options make me come back for more... at least 'til C/H is here...

KA-52 is defenitaly worth buying. I wasn't sure wheter I should get GS! or this one... I am happy that I got KA-52

RR


Posts: 215 | From: Oklahoma CIty, OK, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 04-03-2000 08:56 AM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't know your colleagues but I guess if you had showed them GS also, they would have voted for it instead.

What you got was most likely an opinion which is more "fun" to fly.
Nobody ever said 'realistic' helo flight is easy or fun.

Besides, the start/shutdown sequence (if one can call it so, after all it's just flipping a switch in the game) in CH is IMO more impressive alone for the moving doors.


Blaze


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Scout
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posted 04-03-2000 11:12 AM     Profile for Scout   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jackal,

Don't be afraid One can tell a troll, and you are not one of those.

I don't have CH yet but I had Ka-52 demo, and I think it really has a nice feel to it. However, have you ever tried to go screaming along the tree-cladden road or river in AH? It's the best feeling of speed I ever got in a sim (only F2 is on par with it).
As to shaking cockpit, maybe RW can implement it in future patch or something. It's not biggy with me at least. I agree that AH is not the best out there in representing the perception of height (because the terrain is rather plain close up - I mean it has less colour variety and therefore appears to be flatter than in some other sims, but we are talking about very small differences here).
Anyways, Ka-52 should be nice despite some pretty obvious and annoying issues (that were apparent in the demo and has not been fixed according to reports on-line).

Cheers,
Scout


Posts: 715 | From: Israel | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jackal
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posted 04-03-2000 11:16 AM     Profile for Jackal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Blaze,
well, don't underestimate the casual simmer. From what I read, GS has no flight model at all, that also the non hardcore guys will notice.

>> Nobody ever said 'realistic' helo flight is easy or fun.

Well, as I said, CH feels a bit over-easy on rails for my taste.

Besides this, it's a great sim, no doubt. Just watching all the objects in the action camera view is a blast.
Jackal


Posts: 220 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 04-03-2000 02:26 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well I have to ask of you have all the flight options on in C-H. It in no way has an on rails feeling when they are. At the same time terrain graphics is where TA shines for this sort of thing. I will say that I enjoy KA-52 TA quite a bit and if the super stable hover problem is fixed it's FM has most of the features that C-Hs does. It is missing some of the fancy features that leaves C-H as the best FM in a PC helo sim.

This is not to say that for sensation of flight when at low level TA doesn't stand way out in the crowd. The feeling of speed is great and it might just get my vote as well

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Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Enforcer
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posted 04-03-2000 06:53 PM     Profile for Enforcer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah what Z said, uncheck cross-coupling, check wind option. Now when at battle point (it's usually windy) hover and tell me if it's on rails.... If you check the vortex ring option make sure not to lower collective too fast, it hurts when you do, hehe.

Enforcer.


Posts: 342 | From: Brossard, Québec, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 04-03-2000 08:02 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I also forgot to mention that you will see what stability the sim has gone when the FBW stability systems are shot out on you. Then the helos in C-H become very hard to fly..

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Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jackal
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posted 04-04-2000 02:12 AM     Profile for Jackal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have all options on, but you guys don't really get what I mean. Of course the physics are correct, although lowering the collective too fast isn't half as dangerous as in TA.

It's just the missing helo feeling, the flight sensation feels like a heavy prop plane at very slow speeds. You can even fly hands off for minutes and study the MFDs and occasionally check the HUD for your flight parameters, that's not what I would expect.
In TA I'm constantly working on all controls.

Maybe it's the FBW, maybe it's the rock solid digital TM gear (not the slightest jittering), who knows.

Not meant as moaning, just constructive critisism. Adding some cockpit vibrations with higher frequency would certainly enhance the feel.


Posts: 220 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
TopHat 185th
unregistered

posted 04-04-2000 02:43 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Whilst I don't agree with Jackal post on the overall feel of C-H, I do agree that it would be much more realistic with some situational awareness clues ie: change of wind/engine noise with speed increase (F4 does this so well) or the vibration increase/shake so well modelled in LB2. Anyone ever fly in a Chinook and see how that vibrated with speed You could shut your eyes and "feel" the speed go up.
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TetsuBo
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posted 04-04-2000 04:07 AM     Profile for TetsuBo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I for one dare not let go of the controls in C-H, maybe if you've got a nice trim. I've got all effects on and the retreating blade stall effect can be a bit tricky if the controls are left unattended.

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I am TetsuBo, eater of cookies and souls


Posts: 127 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 04-04-2000 06:41 AM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm all for additional sound cues but if someone models cockpit shaking then please not without an option to turn it off!!!
No fun to barf in front of your monitor.

Posts: 1556 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Cat
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Member # 2285

posted 04-04-2000 08:11 PM     Profile for Cat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I know we all hate Gunship!, but the ground rush really looks like something out of "Apocalypse Now" when you're doing 140kts in a Tiger...

Though, I have to admit it isn't as much fun as navigaing Cuba in a Havoc via the actual roads that are in the real Cuba...

Maybe I ought to spend that 70 bucks after all.

Miao, Cat


Posts: 184 | From: La Florida-U.S of A, | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged

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