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Author Topic: The Flight Model in Gunship! is...
Walt
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posted 03-28-2000 07:25 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What !? Porked..great...On rails....Blows chunks.
Sorry but I seem to be the only one curious here. Thanks for obliging me !

Walt,


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Jws
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posted 03-28-2000 08:47 PM     Profile for Jws   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hard to say. Definately better than the default KA52 model (I can't comment on the updated FM, because I only have the demo) but not really like LB2 and such.

Hard to compare because I haven't played LB2 in years.

-Jon


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Blaze
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posted 03-28-2000 11:31 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually I rate it as sucky as the one in TA.
Something is wrong with the pedal input. For instance if I apply full left rudder I keep flying in the initial direction forever, and if I center the pedals the helos snaps back like on a rubber band.

And the "trees" ...


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Jws
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posted 03-29-2000 03:01 PM     Profile for Jws   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The more I play GS! the more the FM seems fake.

Why is it I can hold a stead hover without rudder/tail input? That's simply not possible.

I think it might be back to the store for this one...

-Jon


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Kharan
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posted 03-29-2000 03:43 PM     Profile for Kharan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gunship!'s flight model is the most awful I've seen in a helo sim. I wonder whats that magical force that turns the helo automatically back to horizon line when you release the stick after yawing/pitching? And this on the realistic setting!

People seem to be gloating over the graphics, but I think they're just a little beefed up M1TP2 (and thats over 2 years old). Terrain is good, but weapon effects look a little cartoonish compared to those in LB2.

My advice is to expect nothing more than (as someone described it) Quake On Rotors, and you may like it. But this truly makes me fear for M1TP3 (helo sims are a plenty, but good tank sims don't grow on trees).


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K6_Scorpion
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posted 03-29-2000 11:26 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I just got Gunship home and installed..set it up for full realism...went right in to test it out in the basic flight training area...then promptly left because I thought it had switched back to arcade somehow...To my surprise...it was on realistic still... Graphics are nice, but I wasn't expecting an arcade only game... This one is definitely going back!
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PureEvil
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posted 03-30-2000 02:19 PM     Profile for PureEvil   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Come on guy's or whoever you think you are. As with every swinging developer under the sun the released a somewhat unfinished game and a patch if ever created shoul stifel your complaining...I was a little PO'ed too but it's still a good game....get over it...
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PureEvil
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posted 03-30-2000 02:43 PM     Profile for PureEvil   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Have any of you flown a real chopper?


didn't think so........


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TetsuBo
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posted 03-30-2000 03:20 PM     Profile for TetsuBo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No, not many of us have flown a real chopper.
However, many of us have flown helo sims that have been rated by real life pilots as the most accurate FM. So if we fly a a sim that have a FM that is the complete opposite, can we then draw a conclusion?
I dare think so.

------------------
I am TetsuBo, eater of cookies and souls


Posts: 127 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
PureEvil
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posted 03-30-2000 05:36 PM     Profile for PureEvil   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't think so...
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PureEvil
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posted 03-30-2000 05:41 PM     Profile for PureEvil   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i know the flight model isn't the best , but they never claimed it to be, i know it also needs a huge patch which i hope they will do soon. I understand flight model is important. you got to admit it's not the worst by far! I've seen some bat crap in my time... I hope a patch will make you all feel better so i can play you online....
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Balderon
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posted 03-30-2000 07:02 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You are correct, its not the worst flight model ever (just damned close). Maybe I could be more forgiving if a greater majoriety of the keyboard commands actually worked.
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K6_Scorpion
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posted 03-30-2000 07:30 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
FM not bad? HA! Barrelroll at 400 ft with no forward momentum....a reverse loop...uh yeah...that's real... I'm on my way to take it back now... hey...but the graphics are nice...
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Dr. Claw
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posted 03-30-2000 09:46 PM     Profile for Dr. Claw   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's the problem with nearly every sim coming out today - they're unfinished products. You wouldn't buy a new car without an exhaust system or a missing windshield. The sim and the car will run, but it ain't no fun driving without a windshield. Likewise for the sim with a crappy FM. BTW, Tim ( the producer ) did claim that the FM was supposed to be highly realistic, but I guess that he was just blowing smoke in order to give it the ever-present hype that Hasbro has generated in the past few years. They seem to have a toy making mentality. What do you expect?!
I knew this was going to be an only slightly modified game in terms of the graphics ( too much like Tank Platoon II ) and gameplay after seeing the preview screenshots and interviews with the producer.
Bring on C-H! At least they've done their homework.

[This message has been edited by Dr. Claw (edited 03-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dr. Claw (edited 03-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dr. Claw (edited 03-30-2000).]


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Arrow33rd
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posted 03-31-2000 10:29 AM     Profile for Arrow33rd   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I picked up GS yesterday. I'll admit that It's not quite what I expected. I didn't expect it to be hardcore with the fall of the Falcon 4 gang. (no kidding eh?) There is one thing however that I can't stand....

Is it me or is there no way to reverse the collective? Fwd for power?? Hu?? Yuck!

-Arrow


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Spectre
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posted 03-31-2000 10:31 AM     Profile for Spectre   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Issue here is that developers are rushed to meet deadlines...and it appears to be industry wide.

My question is: don't these guys TEST the friggin things before they hit the markets?! If so...who do they use...?


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Jws
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posted 03-31-2000 11:44 PM     Profile for Jws   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PureEvil:
Have any of you flown a real chopper?


didn't think so........


Yeah, but anyone with half (or even a quarter) of a brain can understand that the gyroscopic motion of the rotor is going to cause...

Hint: A spinning top moves gyroscopically.

SPINNING!

What, exactly is the tail rotor for, then, anyways? It counterbalances the rotation caused by the primary rotor! Why then, does a real helicopter spin when the tail rotor is at "idle" or minimum blade pitch? Because if the tail rotor was tuned to allow steady flight at "idle," rotating via tail rotor in the opposite direction the rotor is facing would be painfully slow...

Knowing this, any dumba*s can realize that a helicopter will rotate on it's axis when in slow speed/hovering flight - WITHOUT FLYING A REAL HELICOPTER!

You don't need to be a helo pilot to understand the physics of a helo, and how the helo should react under most conditions.

The thing a pilot can do that we can't is test the "feel" of the FM, and see how the various quirks and performance issues to the specific helicopter stack up. Just because every helicopter is different doesn't mean the most basic physics are.

-Jws


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Blackhawk
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posted 04-01-2000 01:40 AM     Profile for Blackhawk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry guys, but the flight model is hands down the best my buddies over at 1/4 Apache Attack BN. They gave it their undying seal of approval.
Now to get serious. They laughed it right out of the Hangar. Wow what serious poop. Makes you wonder how in the heck did they manage to get the X-wings flight model confused with one of a helicopter's ?

Posts: 60 | From: Fort HoodTexas | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Nolan
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posted 04-01-2000 03:35 AM     Profile for Nolan     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No fun.
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Anonymous Coward
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posted 04-01-2000 11:45 AM     Profile for Anonymous Coward   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There's a flight model? ...

(Or maybe "non-existant" would be a better response)

[This message has been edited by Anonymous Coward (edited 04-01-2000).]


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PureEvil
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posted 04-01-2000 04:12 PM     Profile for PureEvil   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Man! nothing I say or do will wuit you guy's from complaining! That's whats wrong with this f'n country, Wait for a damn patch, It's just a game, It's not gonna get you ready for world war 3...although it would be nice!(hehe)
I'm trying to like this game but you winers are bringing me down...(sob)Maybe we should go back to those days when we were 5 and pretend we are in a real chopper, you knw, when they quick and fast like jets.....

Posts: 17 | From: rockville md usa | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shataan
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posted 04-01-2000 04:38 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
aaahh why bother. Doh? Doh.

[This message has been edited by Shataan (edited 04-01-2000).]


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Surreal_Head
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posted 04-03-2000 08:55 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I kept making pretty hard descents and would "Bounce" back up with little or no damage!(on realistic!) Also was anyone else annoyed by the "Pilot" taking control of the helo at very annoying times(like in thw fly by view...huh?????)
I just posted my thoughts on the main board..
very dissapointing..

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ericahls
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posted 04-03-2000 12:11 PM     Profile for ericahls   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Extract of an interview with Tim Goodlett designer of Gunship!


What sort of Flight MODELS do you use and how does your design relate in terms of REALISM?

In Gunship!, we have three flight models. The major difference is in the types of forces the player has to deal with. In the 'action mode', the 'collective' is decoupled from the other controls, allowing the player to fly the aircraft without having to spend all of their time just staying airborne. The 'intermediate mode' uses the controls in a realistic fashion but limits other effects such as 'translational lift', 'ground effect', and 'retreating blade stall'. The simulation model incorporates all these features. The main goal is to let the player decide how much time they want to spend just flying, and how much fighting the battle. The depth is always there, it is a matter of player choice how much of it they want to handle.

I would say that he skirted around the issue of how realistic the flight model was. I personally was under the impression that this was going to be a Helo SIM not a Helo GAME. In his defence however, now where can I find the words 'Authentic flight dynamics' used to describe the flight model of the game. Those words however are used to describe the flight model of CH. I guess that I personally jumped the gun when I bought this game because I was so ready for a good helo sim. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the more I read about the descriptions of the game and the more I play it I would have to say that they did not false advertise but instead lead you to believe that this was the helo sim that the hard core simmer was waiting for. If it wasn't for the fact that I was desperately waiting for a Helo sim, I think I would have read between the lines a little more carefully.


Eric

[This message has been edited by ericahls (edited 04-03-2000).]


Posts: 62 | From: maryland | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jamie Fullerton
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posted 04-03-2000 01:02 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, as a first time helo player (but long time tank player--hey all you fellow treadheads!!), I think I have my hands full as it is going between gunner and pilot and looking at the map and the MFD radar and hovering at 50 feet. And just where the heck is the pilot going when I tell him to "pop-up!!" Mars?!! Yeesh...

The pilot reminds me of the gunner in M1TP2 where he was sorta doing his own thing until it was patched.

It's also hard to get into the mindset that says, "Jamie, AA vehicles are now a threat rather than something to shoot with the .50 cal."

Okay, so the flight model is dumbed down, I realized that going into the game. This wasn't going to be a super hardcore sim like Longbow (or so I heard.. never played Longbow or LB2). But that's what I needed since it was my first iteration of a helo sim. I can understand where a lot of you are coming from about the FM realism. It'd be like me switching over to Armored Fist 3 (never I tell ya!). Reading a lot of people saying "Where's autorotation, engine control, etc. etc." I hear ya though I'm not sure what thos things are. If it'd be anything like not having smoke grenades then you have the right to complain

So hopefully it can be understood where I'm coming from when I say I'm actually liking the game. I put a story on my first campaign mission in another thread. Needless to say, tank tacitcs don't work in helos (d'oh).

But if they dare dumb down M1TP3 (anymore) I'll hit the developers over the head with a spent shell casing!! Bring on SteelBeasts but until then I think I better spend some more time in the practice missions on Gunship!


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Thinner
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posted 04-04-2000 10:08 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well now,,On impulse I purchased Gunship yesterday at wallymart, had read the nice nice reviews at combatsim.com,,and thought I might finally find a helo sim comparable to or better than the venerable Longbow2. OOPS, GS is now off my hard drive after 24 hours and on its way back to the shelves. "Flight Model"?? I think not. Reminds me of that NovaLogic product from several years back, except this one cost more! I flew every square inch of Longbow2 and Hind, loved em both for the feel, the suspension of disbelief, the predictability of control imput and logical airframe reaction and response. In this GAME however, I found myself double and triple checking the configuration settings to ensure I was not somehow locked into the "Arcade" mode rather than the "simulation" mode of "flight".
Now, I have spent many many hours in Blackhawks, Huey's, and OH-58's, I know the feel, and this sim dosent get it,,not even close. I kept looking for the coin return button....
Thanks Hasbro for giving me the opportunity to defrag my hard drive after uninstall.....

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WF_Ramses
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posted 04-04-2000 10:54 AM     Profile for WF_Ramses   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Don't wanna spoil your hate for this game, but if you had red some previews you would have known this wasn't going to be a all realism sim...... I thing if you all would stop complaining about the stupid FM you would see a livin world....complete battles being fought before your eyes.....T80 getting there asses whipped by Leopards.....Ifantry fighting for there lives!!! That's what Gunship is about .....GAMEPLAY...the feeling of being there!!!! Not A freaking FM!!!!!! I like this game.....seems I'm the only one who sees to understand what Gunship has to offer.......or am I wrong?!??!?

Gunship site hosted by the WF clan>>http://wfclan.homepage.com/gunship.html

------------------


Posts: 53 | From: Holland | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
scrapser
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posted 04-04-2000 11:11 AM     Profile for scrapser   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
WF_Ramses,
You're not wrong as far as the action you're witnessing is concerned. But you're wrong about FM complaints. It's not about an ultra-realistic FM. It's about how the FM "feels" to the operator whether it really is modeling a helo or not. Plus, like I've said in many other posts, many of us were expecting the title to be a continuation of it's previous namesakes (not unreasonable) which it definitely is not! That alone was enough to blow it for many of us. And this has nothing to do with FM discussion.

Forget the FM argument for now. The other big issue is that it doesn't respond to your input intuitively or the input must be accomplished in a very clumsy way (waypoints issue). So you're ability to "feel" like you're participating in the war you see going on around you is diminished to the extent that the game controls frustrate you. Doesn't that make sense?

-scrapser

[This message has been edited by scrapser (edited 04-04-2000).]


Posts: 195 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
WF_Ramses
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posted 04-04-2000 11:30 AM     Profile for WF_Ramses   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hello again

Of course you do have a point. But I think it's mainly a question (just like you said)that you guys were expecting something different. Microprose has said from the beginning the game would have a resonable FM but NOT THE BEST. The have said it would be a game with as main feature the modelling of the war! and the feel of being in war.....I think that the helo flys fine and good enouff to experience the battle in all it's aspects......Look for instance at how accurate the tanks behave!! the even have an area defence system!!! Never seen that before!.....So all i'm saying is>>get over the FM and look futher in the game and his many many great features!!

Gunship site hosted by the WF-clan>http://wfclan.homepage.com/gunship.html

Greets and game on, WF_Ramses

------------------


Posts: 53 | From: Holland | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 04-04-2000 02:01 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"Look for instance at
how accurate the tanks behave"


Yeah right, one hit wit a 30mm round and they rock back and forth for half an hour, like on a rubber band. That is if they didn't got killed by that single round. Wow, what an accurate behaviour!


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Blaze
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posted 04-04-2000 02:02 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Forgot the other snide remark: a (so called) sim hosted by a "clan". AirQuake anyone?
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Shataan
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posted 04-04-2000 02:18 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"I think that the helo flys fine and good enouff to experience the battle in all it's aspects......"
Doh?

[This message has been edited by Shataan (edited 04-05-2000).]


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mersun144
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posted 04-05-2000 10:14 AM     Profile for mersun144   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You can argue about a lot of things. I heard complaints about M1P2 that in the .50 unbuttoned mode, it was unrealistic, because they had forgot the turret with "the big gun on it," and other stupid complaints, when it was compared to Armoured Fist 2. Of course, AF2 and 3 throw you automatically into scenarios, and before you can move, a member of your platoon is gone from some sniping 80...you go into battle in M1T2, in AF2, you are already in it.

so, where's your trade off?

Yes, the FM is kinda sucky in some people's minds, but real battles are going on beneath you. Yes, the pilot just keeps popping up, but you can control this by not hitting "pop up" until a patch comes out...

Quit being baby's because something isn't so perfect, espcially when there are ways aroudn it that might make you think a little more, and make you a better gamer for your neccissty to adapt...

I love the game, and can't wait to get home to play.

M


Ok, like Longbow 2 was all that great...LOL. I would rather have my pilot pop-up in training mode, and me figure out I need to do it myself...than little boxes with stick on them as tanks on the screen.


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Shataan
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posted 04-05-2000 10:44 AM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
When you have something valid to reply with, come see us again dude.
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PureEvil
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posted 04-05-2000 11:47 AM     Profile for PureEvil   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I asked the tech support about a patch as nice as humanly possible, If, when, what will it have , as wellas a few suggestions and all I got was a thread that ssaid keep looking on our site for updates!
Posts: 17 | From: rockville md usa | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged

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