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Author Topic: Mil Mi 24
Ojokoltsa
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posted 02-29-2000 04:57 AM     Profile for Ojokoltsa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I like to see it simulated again. I know, I know, there is DI's Mil Mi HIND. But- well, I don't know how it looks like now- I would like to see it with new and better graphics and stuff, no fixed cockpit anymore and so on. Hmh, maybe I should install it again today just to have a look how it works out on a PII and TNT2.
Posts: 211 | From: | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 02-29-2000 06:54 AM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Buy Comanche-Hokum, make sure all your friends buy it, buy Apache-Havoc, make sure all your friends buy it ... you get the picture, just help Razorworks to get good sales.
Then a Blackhawk-Hind could come true. That would be cool!

Posts: 1556 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
SPOT
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posted 02-29-2000 10:55 AM     Profile for SPOT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think a MI-24 sim would be great (I have HIND still on my HD) but the way the developers are going the chances are the only hinds you will see are in DeerHunter games sold at Wal-Mart.
Posts: 573 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
MoZeR
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posted 03-01-2000 01:05 PM     Profile for MoZeR   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'd like to see th Mi-24 simulated again, but I'd also like to see maybe the AH-1, throw in one of the little helicopters, Gazelle I want to say but I think I have it wrong, and I'd be happy. As it is, I'm looking very foward to flying the commanche in C/H.
Posts: 61 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Nolan
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posted 03-01-2000 03:47 PM     Profile for Nolan     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'd buy a new Hind sim. If DI would honour us with a re-run (and a few less bugs) I'd be a very happy man.

And if someone else wants to give it a shot, please do. The flexablilty of the Hind opens up some very intressting missions.

/Nolan


Posts: 307 | From: Lund, Sweden | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
CEP}I{AHT
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posted 03-02-2000 04:03 AM     Profile for CEP}I{AHT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blaze:
...just help Razorworks to get good sales.
Then a Blackhawk-Hind could come true. That would be cool!

He-he let's do a campaign to increase sales for Razorworks! I guess no other lobbying effort would do...

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Independant Helicopter Squadron RuAF
[IMG]http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/dior/3/virtalet/ru-ussr-af.jpg[/IMG]


Posts: 151 | From: FSU | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
mbeaver
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posted 03-03-2000 12:00 AM     Profile for mbeaver   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, HIND was a lot of fun. I still keep it installed on my HD. I especially liked the missions invloving troop deployment.
Posts: 45 | From: Glendale, Arizona | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
CEP}I{AHT
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posted 03-03-2000 05:06 AM     Profile for CEP}I{AHT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey, guys, care to share what makes HIND THE SIM for you?
I'm writing an article about why it's THE classic chopper sim. How about some feedback from you?

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Independant Helicopter Squadron RuAF
[IMG]http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/dior/3/virtalet/ru-ussr-af.jpg[/IMG]
(Buy A-H and C-H and you might see BH-H!)


Posts: 151 | From: FSU | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Virgin
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posted 03-03-2000 08:58 AM     Profile for Virgin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Originally posted by Blaze:
...just help Razorworks to get good sales.
Then a Blackhawk-Hind could come true. That would be cool!

Hey, I've finally figured out what "BH-H" is. Boy do I feel dense. Seriously tho, is this Blackhawk-Hind thing a future Razorworks possibility or did I miss the boat?

BTW, what would one match against the Cobra? I can't seem to think of any counterparts.

~Virg


Posts: 58 | From: Tampa, FL USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 03-03-2000 11:54 AM     Profile for Scout   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think Blackhawk counterpart must be in fact Mi-17 Hip, which just as Blackhawk is supposed to carry out transport/assault role. Take notice - transport comes first. Hind is primarily an assault gunship with light transport ability. It's hard to compare it with Cobra but when you think of their intended role of BAI and CAS, they both are intended to get a similar job done - fly low and fast slightly above the charging armour and infantry wreaking havoc with their mighty guns and HE rockets.

I'd love to see Blackhawk modeled again (after LB2) but I'd rather RazorWorks do Cobra-Hind (event though it effectively ruins the use of abbriviation )

Cheers,
Scout


Posts: 715 | From: Israel | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
MoZeR
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posted 03-03-2000 12:58 PM     Profile for MoZeR   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
How about if they were to release a package with all of the helicopters flyable? To cut cost/development time, they could do it with HUDs only(no cockpit). Practically all of the models are of good enough quality for player piloted vehicles. I dont know about the flight models for each one, but I'm sure they coudl do it. Then imagine that they included larger multiplayer support, say at least 32 players. That would be awesome! I must agree on that earlier comment, the troop deployment missions in Hind were some of the best. More sims need to model troop deployment, even if they don't have they player piloting the transports. It'd still be great to see one of those helos in your flight group actually land, open up, and disgorge a squad of troops. Also, clearing a beach for those hovercrafts woudl be interesting to see, that is, if they actually had a bunch of troops on board and they got out. Man, imagine the possibilities!
Posts: 61 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
SPOT
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posted 03-03-2000 06:01 PM     Profile for SPOT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CEPHANT-
It's the FLIGHT MODEL - it's challenging while not having superperfulous difficulty thrown in passing as realism (i.e. spins modeled in EAW and Mig Alley on hardest settings - own both sims and enjoy them -but still...) , Also, you can pick up and deliver men,and though it is a DOS game - you get a lot of entertainment for under 100 Mgs and it has an original subject matter. Oh yeah the silicon WSO he sounds intelligent - if you played APACHE/HAVOC you know what I mean.
HIND is a lot of sim that's smaller then most demos you download.

They could package this same sucker with the latests graphics - only include a mission/map editor and I would be one of the first ones
making a reservation for my copy at EB.com - and I normally don't do that since I'm a tight-fisted SOB.


Posts: 573 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
SPOT
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posted 03-03-2000 06:04 PM     Profile for SPOT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CEPHANT-
It's the FLIGHT MODEL - it's challenging while not having superperfulous difficulty thrown in passing as realism (i.e. spins modeled in EAW and Mig Alley on hardest settings - own both sims and enjoy them -but still...) , Also, you can pick up and deliver men,and though it is a DOS game - you get a lot of entertainment for under 100 Mgs and it has an original subject matter. Oh yeah the silicon WSO he sounds intelligent - if you played APACHE/HAVOC you know what I mean.
HIND is a lot of sim that's smaller then most demos you download.

They could package this same sucker with the latests graphics - only include a mission/map editor and I would be one of the first ones
making a reservation for my copy at EB.com - and I normally don't do that since I'm a tight-fisted SOB.


Posts: 573 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
CEP}I{AHT
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posted 03-06-2000 06:42 AM     Profile for CEP}I{AHT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks a lot SPOT!
Anyone else care to share, please

I agree with Scout though on Mi-17 (earlier Mi-8) "Hip" being more obvious counterpart to Black Hawk

It's portrayed by Razorworks mostly as transport, however Mi-26 "Halo" is used for this role and would have been the right one for this:

(unfortunately as I been told the priority was to include US made a/c as more modern ones?!?!)

and Hind originaly was designed against Cobra (which will be compared in my article in the real life part of HIND), although later was pitted against AH-64C.

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Independant Helicopter Squadron RuAF

(Buy A-H and C-H and you might see BH-H!)

[This message has been edited by CEP}I{AHT (edited 03-06-2000).]


Posts: 151 | From: FSU | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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posted 03-06-2000 12:51 PM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sersjant (thats as close as i caan get it),

are you discussing the two DI sims or A-H, in which case it was the AH-64D in both instances.

As for the equivilant to the Blackhawk being the Hip...hummm, not in the case A-H. You will spot alot of the Blackhawks carrying hellfire. So within this they must be performing some form of armed role. Also as it currently stands with the RuAF, with the current line of upgrades to the Mi-24, the roles of these two will be even closer (armed insertion of troops, etc). There are some armed variets of the BH, specifically for SpecialOps that would match this role.

One place where it would be true to say that they would differ, would be that of medivac (although i believe the Hind was used for this in the Afgan war).

Zed


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
CEP}I{AHT
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posted 03-07-2000 04:26 AM     Profile for CEP}I{AHT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zed:

...are you discussing the two DI sims or A-H, in which case it was the AH-64D in both instances.
Zed

I'm saying what was in reality (where design of helicopters was driven not by desire to match counterpart, but rather come up with better and suited to own concepts one).
Refering to A-H (where Hip looks like Halo, but called Mi-17).
Meaning DI's Hind, when asking to share.

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Independant Helicopter Squadron RuAF
[IMG]http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/dior/3/virtalet/ru-ussr-af.jpg[/IMG]
(Buy A-H and C-H and you might see BH-H!)


Posts: 151 | From: FSU | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Darkhorse
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posted 03-07-2000 07:02 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The only Blackhawks in the Army that carry any armament other than door guns are the MH-60K's in task force. To the best of my knowledge, they don't carry hellfires since they have no way of acquiring or designating targets for them. Most UH-60's can be fitted with ESSS (the stub wings), but wouldn't normally carry these in combat as they are for fuel tanks only.
As for the Hind, I can't imagine it being used as a troop carrier very often, as it's a bit underpowered.

Darkhorse


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Blaze
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posted 03-07-2000 09:26 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It's not the Army but ...

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/aircraft/helos/seahawk/sh60hellfire.jpg


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Zed
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posted 03-08-2000 02:17 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Darkhorse,

Why is the Mi-24 underpowered?

Z


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 03-08-2000 03:10 AM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well with a full load of weapons and fuel the Hind must do a running take of since it doesn't have the power to lift off with a hover. You often see footage of the Hind attacking at full speed because with it loaded you are not going to dream of hovering OGE..

Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
'
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posted 03-08-2000 08:11 AM     Profile for '   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I would have to disagree. I saw lots of times HIND taking of from a spot in Afganistan, with weapons, picking up troops. It's not much though, maybe 2000lbs.(troops) Also, I don't think Russians would do something underpowered.
BTW., the owners of IAF, can get an info, about Israely chopper stealing a radar station, which was more than 2x allowed load capacity.
Hollywood Hind:
http://www.helis.com/70s/h_mi24.htm

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... --- ... --- ... --- ...


Posts: 445 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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posted 03-08-2000 08:58 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I do know that the Hind can perform ops in overload conditions...this is what i think they use for rolling take-off; the figures for hover ceiling OGE seem very respectable, this is why i question it being underpowered.

Z


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
CEP}I{AHT
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posted 03-08-2000 09:39 AM     Profile for CEP}I{AHT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
In soviet practice, even when there weren't any fuel shortages, standard was to take-off and land helicopter on the runway using the help of transitional lift. I observed it every time when being part of airfield team, servicing the regular flight exercises. One other reason for that is that if damaged to the point of inability to achieve hover and landing from it the pilots would need to use such skill to land even on a road or a flat strip.

I agree with Zed on power, however with one engine out this is the only way to land. Hind was originally created for European TVD (TMO - theater of military operations). Appeared to be underpowered for mountains in Afghanistan, hence been improved in the engines department

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Independant Helicopter Squadron RuAF
[IMG]http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/dior/3/virtalet/ru-ussr-af.jpg[/IMG]
(Buy A-H and C-H and you might see BH-H!)


Posts: 151 | From: FSU | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 03-08-2000 10:43 AM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well there is a big difference between having some weapons and a full load of them. There could easily be engine upgrades to the Hind that I do not know about though.

The Comanche is the same as older Hinds. If you put all the weapons on it that it can hold you can not fill the fuel tanks without going well over max goss weight.

Z


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Zed
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posted 03-08-2000 01:35 PM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Zero,

I think what you describe as 'a full load', we describe as an overload condition. This being: 100% fuel, the heaviest stores (say, bombs), reloads and personel (troops/commandos, flight engineer). In this sort of condition it would be taken as said that a rolling take-off is required, thats the nature of the overload condition.

Z


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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