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Author Topic: You all forget about Ka-52? This sim has better graphics than anything on the market.
apache6
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posted 02-28-2000 09:07 PM     Profile for apache6   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah, for some reason I wasn't able to get the demo to run. So now I have to sit in front of the chatrooms looking for news as to its release date. The screenshots look better than anything I've seen so far.
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Enforcer
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posted 02-28-2000 10:52 PM     Profile for Enforcer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah sure.... <g>

Enforcer.


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bighead111
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posted 02-29-2000 06:26 AM     Profile for bighead111   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It support bump mapping for Matrix G400MAX!!!
Posts: 299 | From: london | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shataan
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posted 02-29-2000 08:54 AM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I disagree. For allround realistic helis and terrain, gunship has it all the way. For total over the top awesome cockpit realistic graphics, C/H/ wins it easily for shere amount of the amount of stuff they went so far to render as for detail of cockpit and pilots, with Gunship following a close second, the dashes and inside of Gunships cockpits do seem very realistic looking as well.{but it s very cool just how far C/H went in rendering the detail on their pilots, wow} KA 52s cockpits look cartoonish in comparison.
KAs trees look like boxes. Even C/Hs trees look great, as well as Gunships 2D trees. I could go on..... but IMHO Gunship allround wins it so far.
But, the KA demo wasn t a ready for primetime demo, and we haven t seen the terrains of C/H yet. Bring on the demos!!!!!

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bighead111
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posted 02-29-2000 11:43 AM     Profile for bighead111   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Dude,

Fergive me ignorance. What is C/H stand for ???


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Shataan
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posted 02-29-2000 12:14 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I m sure it s called Comanche/Havoc?? This is right isn t it?? Btw, I saw a coupla terrain shots of C/H, and what little I did see, the terrains looks way more inviting to the eye, than the terrains of A/H.

I hope they really go all guns with the terrains, as it would be a pity to have such stunning detail to the virtual cockpits, pilots, and helis, and then if the terrains didn t impress, we d feel like we were NOE on naked halfdone terrains hehhehheh. <S>


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Scout
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posted 02-29-2000 12:57 PM     Profile for Scout   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Comanche/Hokum portraying RAH-66 "Comanche" and Ka-52 Hokum-B helicopters. You can also fly AH64D "Apache-Longbow" and Mi-28N "Havoc" attack gunships if you have a copy of AH installed along with CH.

About the terrain - I haven't seen CH in action, but I heard the "pastels" have been toned down a bit and the roads are much more integrated with terrain thanks to beizer-curve driven algorithm or something like that Ultimately though, AH weakness was not in colour palette, but in wingmen AI, bad campaign GUI, bad voice acting, internet multiplay and few other small things... CH promises to fix all that big time (I don't know about inet multiplay, but other things are already rock reportedly)
That in MY book makes it the king of the hill sim bar none. I'm one of those guys that don't care for uber-realistic avionics.. gimme a realistic battlefield and realistic tactics and I'm a happy grasshopper

So, like Blaze said, if you are into chopper sims, go and buy CH AND AH, and make your friends buy one too. Then Razorworks will get enough cash and make BH - Blackhawk-Hind.
Just imagine doing troop extractions with Blackhawk or chasing Mujahedin troops in Hind with troops as detailed as in those CH shots at SimHQ!!!

Cheers,
Scout


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Ojokoltsa
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posted 02-29-2000 02:45 PM     Profile for Ojokoltsa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, still Apache/Havoc is the best Heli sim so far for me. And the terrain is great!!!
I've never seen a sim where you see fog of dawn in the valleys. And hey, I don't need to count down trees in woods. I just want somthing where I can hide behind and get some cover.
So, I can't wait to grab my C/H- and I'm interested to see how TEAM ALLIGATOR will do the job!

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ecoli
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posted 02-29-2000 09:14 PM     Profile for ecoli   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Scout! You really seem to be a real Helo head! I've started recent simulators with LongBow...one of the best. My question to you Scout, when will C/H be released? I went to SimHq as you mentioned and man did I like what I read and saw!!! I had B17-II on my wish list but I am adding C/H to it also! Thanks Scout for your info. Hey do you know who is selling their copy of A/H?????

Good earth hugging!!!! NAP of the Earth!!!

------------------
"america the free? who ever told you that is your enemy!"
-RATM


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Zero G
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posted 03-01-2000 02:02 AM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Planned release is set for the next few months. The beta testing is most of the way through so it shouldn't be a very long time off. Of course we all know that things can go wrong but it is looking good to stay on track.

Z


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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 07:20 AM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
can you at least say whether force feedback is supported? And, whats the beta "feel" like, the piloting experience?
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Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 03-01-2000 07:57 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No FF, sorry.

(For none programmers that's No 255 <g> )


------------------
Richard "Flexman" Hawley, Leeds, United Kingdom


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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 08:14 AM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
well that s really too bad for me then, as I won t be buying C/H. :0( I ll definately check out a demo if it ever arrives, but I guess it s Gunship for me.
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bighead111
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posted 03-01-2000 08:16 AM     Profile for bighead111   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What??? None FF support?? That is really really very bad indeed??? what kind of game is it???
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Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 03-01-2000 09:41 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What sort of a game is it?

It's a helicopter sim without force-feeback support. Erm, I guess that's about it. I wasn't aware it was a must have. My three year old daughter does tend to come in and grab the joystick out of my hand at inoportune moments, does that count?

:-)


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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 10:31 AM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hell yes it s a must-have. I ve posted a few times how I quit playing my fav heli sim LB 2 "because" it lacked f.f. . What convinced me was the microsoft demo of the heli rotor vibration effect, and Team Apaches f.f. . A sim is naked without f.f. IMHO.
Talk about catch 22, got rid of LB 2 cause it didn t have f.f., and didn t buy TA, because it came nowhere near LB 2 in all other areas. hehhehheh
I love f.f, and find it way more immersive an experience, than a stick without f.f. ! No worries, as Gunship has it. KA 52 does good f.f. too, tho I m not gonna buy it.
I loved Combat Flight Sims force feedback, it was probably the very best done in a flight sim. I will not buy a sim unless it has the features I dig. Maybe we ll see C/H patched for f.f. , I hope. :0)

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Enforcer
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posted 03-01-2000 11:42 AM     Profile for Enforcer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't see the point of having a F.F. stick in a "flying tanks" FPS-like kind of a game LookGunship! will probably be!

My $ 0.02...

Enforcer.

[This message has been edited by Enforcer (edited 03-01-2000).]


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Blaze
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posted 03-01-2000 11:53 AM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Who needs a flight model or decent avionics as long as it's got FFB ...
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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 11:54 AM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
just because you or anyone doesn t see the point, doesn t validate not having f.f. !! I love it in driving games,Mech sims, and flying sims. I bought my stick for 198 bucks when they 1st hit the market. It s personal preference. If you re not into force feedback, tactile feedback, hey that s cool, for "you".
But some of us are. There are a few f.f. stick ownwers on this site I m sure. If as an owner, you try d a sim with and without, without it s easy to tell there s something missing.
And the funny thing is.. f.f. is easy to implement, we re not talking any kind of re engineering of the game here. Having it in, or not having f.f. is a call someone makes as in whether they personally think it s important.
As far as I m concerned, I will do ANYTHING to make my experience more immersive, I added the aura interactor to my PC chair, I have a f.f. stick, if the UnionReality head tracker was available I ll by that too so I won t have to pan my tophat switch over the virtual cockpit.
Others are just content with installing the game and that s it. Great, knock yourselves out. But, it s the little things some care less about, these things make the world of difference to me. And, I doubt I m alone in this.
Hey,Gunship ll have it, KA s got it, somebody somewhere thought enough of f.f. to add it into the game, and I <S> salute them. And they ll get my dough.

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jlackey
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posted 03-01-2000 02:39 PM     Profile for jlackey   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've got a review copy of Ka-52, and I'm wondering if any of you saw the shaky cockpit and hud graphics I'm seeing. Using either a TNT or a Voodoo2, the hud and the cockpit have a slight shake that is pretty distracting. It's present on the ground, with the rotors turned off, so I don't think it's an attempt to model the engine vibration (nor is it smooth enough - its erratic). This isn't present when using the full screen HUD. Also, using the cockpit HUD, the text is pretty difficult to read (at 1024x768x32) - it's not the size, the text is just not clear.

I'll try it on a completely different machine, but I saw this using two video cards.

Jeff Lackey


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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 02:55 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
my screen only shook when I over torqued the engine. I thought that was a cool effect. lol
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riordan
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posted 03-01-2000 04:18 PM     Profile for riordan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gentlemen, I believe the RAH-66 is fly-by-wire. That would negate the need for FF, don't you think?

riordan


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Scout
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posted 03-01-2000 04:30 PM     Profile for Scout   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Shataan,

WOW, man you're PC equipment must be around the price of a brand new Celica or something
But, fer God's sake, have your keyboard replaced - I mean look at it - your ['] key is long gone and now the Caps Lock is stuck in Off position! Jeez, don't be such a cheapo about it a new keyboard runs about 9 bucks or something like that

Hey, mate - don't take it too hard, I'm just joking

Cheers,
Scout


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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 04:34 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I posted on this. No problem, I ll buy a sim that does support a feature I like.
Total realism is not the issue, it s about having an effect realistic to true life or not that does help to immerse a player more. Say for instance you re right, there is no rotor vibration. That s cool, you can still simulate inertia effects, guns recoil, the heli speeding up, the heli slowing down , there s really no limit to what ELSE can be done, if the guy doing it has a tad of imagination. If it immerses, whether it s there in real life or not, I m all for it.
So... rotor effects aside, force feedback would be cool for ANY sim. FBW or no FBW.

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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 04:43 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Scout?? Are you mocking me?? hahhahhah I m a 2 finger typist, and I hate ` CAPS lol. Which is why I bought the GCMX, it makes sims more friendly to my acheing divots.
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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 04:44 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
did I say divots? hahahah Digits lol
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Scout
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posted 03-01-2000 04:54 PM     Profile for Scout   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Shataan,

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you... no mocking - just joking... Forget the caps, but please consider including the [']s in your typeset... it would really help...

Hey, you can laugh about mine keyboard having the dot keys stuck or something, too.

Cheers,
Scout


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Zero G
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posted 03-01-2000 05:08 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well a company could if they wanted to put in FF effects justify it by saying it is part of the effect felt through the entire helo. You know, wind, G-forces etc...

Z


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Enforcer
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posted 03-01-2000 05:41 PM     Profile for Enforcer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Force Feedback is sure nice in some sims, i know one racing sim that features it quite well (GPL) with steering wheel. But with a flight sim that's another story since you can't use an external throttle or pedals (unless you buy SIMPED-vario Rudder Pedals for the MS F.F.).

So i'll stick with my CH HOTAS since it's more important to me than F.F.

Enforcer.


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Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 03-01-2000 05:53 PM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I suppose you could mount your whole PC gaming rig and chair on top of a washing machine...or just fit a 64x speed Mitsumi Vibramatic CD-ROM drive, same effect.

:-)


BTW: I had those ssshhhaaaakkkkkyyyy cockpits in Ka-52 too. Amongst other things.


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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 05:55 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
np Scout. I was kidding too. I`ll<-- have to get used to typing those {`} I guess hahhahhah. But I`m so lazy . lol
As for justification, you don`t need justification to add anything that immerses to a game, immersion is it`s own justification.
I didn`t need to add the auras to my PC chair, but it`s too cool to feel those engines start up. We don`t really need better more realistic graphics, but the envelope is always pushed because realism in visuals really helps to immerse.
There are 4 important areas.

1: visuals 2: sounds 3: tactile feedback 4: gameplay . These are all equally important to me.


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Shataan
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posted 03-01-2000 06:04 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
and the kicker here is... I`ve come to a site where so many will go hogwild over the top in their wants for their sims, but they`re not interested in the other areas that are cool too.
It`s like all intellect and no feel. lol
Guess I`m the crazy one then eh? I liken it to this... I cannot drive my Explorer with winter boots on. Wtf not you ask?? Because I can`t feel the accelerator with my foot, so I use sneakers instead. LoLoL hahahaha
I swear I`ll go into detox if I have to fly one more heli without f.f. !!!!! hahahaha Luckilly Gunship is coming so I can still get my fix. ;0) ;0)

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huMMer
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posted 03-02-2000 05:47 AM     Profile for huMMer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
To Shataan:

I am impressed by your level of dedication to realism and immersion expressed in your posts, but there is one logical link broken in your reasonning, IMHO. And this is the FF stick and the way you're forced to control the aircraft with it.

With most (if not all) FF sticks available on the market today you get an arcade-looking, zero-realistic in shape and grip, cosmic/nintendo style all-in-one something where you have to do the thumb work to push and pull all these throttle wheels and rudder sliders, ir even more perversed - twist handle. IS THIS SOMETHING YOU CALL REALISTIC? If so, I am sorry, man, we're on different scales of values here. If you wanna be realistic, you MUST (IMHO, of course) have your right hand on your stick, your left hand on your throtte (or collective control for that matter), and your feet on your rudders. Otherwise for me it comes close to flying with mouse and keyboard. My TM set of non-FF controllers cost me 350 bucks against your 192, and hell! it's worth every penny of it.

I'd spent a fortune on a FF stick that ALLOWS the use of separate throttle and rudders. With the USB technology this is real simple to do, the problem is nobody does this. I aslo love FF, and I am someone who digs for realism and immersion too. That is exactly why I WILL NEVER buy any of currently available FF sticks. So to me the absence of FF in C/H does not crosses it out from my consideration list.

From Russia with stealth


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Blaze
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posted 03-02-2000 06:52 AM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Excellent point!

I wouldn't mind FF if someone would built a stick of the TM F22/TQS class with it.

I sure won't put an M$ Precision style stick on my desk, no way!


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Shataan
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posted 03-02-2000 07:22 AM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I cannot fathom wtf you have to have sticks that look so realistic, when you spend your time looking mostly at the screen. But if that s the yin of your yang, all the power to you.
I just need a stick for the feel, and to get the job done, I don t watch the stick while I m playing, only if I have to, that s all, I m more interested in the feel, and function rather than you lot who have to have a hotas look like you re in the pilot seat.
I can see where this is going.. if you see a stick and rudder pedals, and the game looks realistic... this is all you care about for immersion. Visuals alone don t immerse me.
Thats cool for you, but I want more. My stick gives me a response, your sticks give you a "look". Not the same dudes. If I could have the same setup you have, but f.f., I d buy it.
I get the job done, same as you, but I don t have a stick that "looks" like one in a real aircraft. Big deal. I had a thrustmaster setup a coupla years back, hated it, dropped it for the Pro. I personally don t need the stick to look like the real thing, as a realistic looking stick does nothing for my immersion onscreen.
I m glad it does for you tho, and wouldn t take that away from you.
NP I say again, I ll go for the product that has the features I dig. Same as you. I see no conflict here. Pick your sim, and have a great time in the seat. <S>

Remember, this is a personal choice, so don t go making this into a HOTAS is better than F.F. sticks war.... for me this thread is over


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Sammer
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posted 03-02-2000 08:21 AM     Profile for Sammer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Howdy Shataan,

Didn't see you in the old CombatSim forums, did you just this one?

Anyways, regarding Gunship!, the big question is whether it can live up to Gunship 2000. I bought GS2000 in 1993/4 and enjoyed it, infact it was my second most played game after Falcon 3.0 and F-15 Strike Eagle III.

The missions, wingmen, map editor, and new locations provided in the Islands & Ice Scenario made the game a worthwhile one for me.

Regarding joysticks, I was using a Thrustmaster Mark 1 from 1994 to 1998. Best damn stick I ever handled. Pity the spring was loose and the stick kept flopping down in '98. Bought a replacement Thrustmaster TopGun, damn stick is like trying to handle a 10 tonne truck without power steering. Almost sprained my wrists a couple of times. Now I use an F16 Combat Stick, yeah the old one. Its pretty okay, easy to handle (unlike the TopGun) but recalibrates itself sometimes.

-Sammer


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huMMer
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posted 03-02-2000 08:50 AM     Profile for huMMer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
To Shataan:

I think, you took it wrong. First of all, this is all the way far from being a war. It's a vivid discussion, no more. Secondly, my "realism" criterias are far from being limited to what the stick looks like, but rather are on the "how-it-feels" side. It's just a question of personnal choice, as you correctly pointed out. To you the "feel" is in FF mostly, and you are ready to sacrifice the normal pilot's hands position and real-life style of controlling the aircraft. Ultimately, you're longing for the same - realism, we're just heading along different roads.

Normal, realistic position AND operation of my hands and feet is what counts a lot for me, on the contrary. It is sad, but the fact is all available FF set-ups are just BAD in everything else except for the FF ability. That is my position. I am not saying FF is useless. I am just saying it's not there yet with really good sticks. In fact, both you and I are waiting for the same - to have Force Feedback in Good Sticks. The difference is in what we stay with meanwhile - you stay with Force Feedback, I have choosen Good Sticks. That's it. And I am luckier - absence of FF is not a stop factor for me (it was a joke, not a war action)


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Blaze
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posted 03-02-2000 12:17 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah shataan, you got it wrong.

It's not about the looks but the functionality (I said "class" and "style", not "looks"!).
Although, consequently the functionality of the stick influences its looks.
Our sticks function pretty close to real life military sticks, and so they look similar to them.

So for the record: I'd love to buy a stick with the functionality of the TM F22/TQS series *and* FF. If I can't have both, I take functionality everday.

Btw, I don't believe you considering this thread over.


B


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Shataan
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posted 03-02-2000 01:54 PM     Profile for Shataan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
... ok you guys are all right, and I m all wrong.
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Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 03-02-2000 01:56 PM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
BTW: This thread has already forgotten Ka-52

Anyway, we all know it's NOT the joystick, it's the pilot


Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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