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Author Topic: Ka-52 "Dead Loop" - It's MAGNIFICENT!!!
huMMer
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posted 02-05-2000 07:00 AM     Profile for huMMer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jesus, this is definitely hell of a helo! I couldn't believe how amaizing it is to execute a "Nesterov Loop", or a "Dead loop" on a helicopter. Ka-52 REALLY is the BEST!!!
Posts: 50 | From: Moscow, Russia | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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posted 02-05-2000 09:06 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
...i think that is more of a bug...

Zed


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Blaze
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posted 02-05-2000 10:31 AM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Showing my ignorance here: what is a Dead Loop?
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Zed
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posted 02-05-2000 12:30 PM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The Nesterov Loop, is just an ordinary loop...appear very tight over the top as Nesterov would have had to stall this plane over the top...not the thpe of WWII loops that you see. Dead loop is the same thing AFAIK...

Zed


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Johnny
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posted 02-05-2000 01:23 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ka-50/52 can perform loops like that!
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Zed
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posted 02-05-2000 04:22 PM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Its very difficult for any helicopter to perform loop...the FM model that is avalible is not great, in the demo...i should know i was a tester...

I think the most telling thing was how Kamov viewed this 'sim' when they were contacted...i.e. very much a game rather than a sim.

Zed

[This message has been edited by Zed (edited 02-05-2000).]


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
.
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posted 02-05-2000 04:45 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What is AFAIK?
Also, why not to install the second BMP's 30mm. Me, and the passenger, are often fighting, who's turn to fire. He says it's on his side, so it's his. I want one on my side too. BTW, it would look better as well.
And one more thing. I was very suprised,
that TA runs very well in software mode. Usually, I get slideshows.

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Zero G
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posted 02-05-2000 05:25 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zed:
Its very difficult for any helicopter to perform loop...the FM model that is avalible is not great, in the demo...

Most any helo can roll and loop. To do it with a 2 bladed helo is to beg for death since it stands a very good chance of snapping the main rotor off. If the helo has a solid type of rotor head it should be able to roll.

Z

[This message has been edited by Zero G (edited 02-05-2000).]


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
@
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posted 02-05-2000 05:47 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The flight model is lame to say the least. I stood it on its tail while hovering close to the ground and pointed the nose almost straight up. It just stood there, unbelievable. Hopefully it will be changed for the release version. And lets not get our hopes up about Gunship either. I wouldn't expect much from that sim. I may be wrong but I believe there is no 2d cockpit. The 3d cockpit will not be clickable or at best, a few buttons will be.
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JA
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posted 02-05-2000 08:40 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi @. Do you have all the FM difficulty options on? I tried that and the aircraft slid backwards and crashed tailfirst, just as one would expect...
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Zed
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posted 02-06-2000 04:53 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
ZeroG,

While what you say it true, that can only really apply to fixed rotor head types. I have done more than one papers on helicopter accidents when a fully-articulated rotor head flapped the wrong way, causing the it to loose control.

Looping a chopper should not be taken lightly...in a roll, forward speed can be maintained,, but in a loop speed can bleed very quickly...

Z


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Zero G
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posted 02-06-2000 05:19 AM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well I will tell you this much zed, I will not be trying loops or rolls in RL in any of the civilian helos I will be flying. Even though I have seen it done in a 500 I have little interest in risking my life to do it.

Z


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Zed
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posted 02-06-2000 11:53 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
...thats good to hear Zero; but i must admit, the co-axial contra does represent one of the easier ones to do a loop in...no torque variations while going over the top...

Z


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huMMer
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posted 02-07-2000 02:00 AM     Profile for huMMer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JA:
Hi @. Do you have all the FM difficulty options on? I tried that and the aircraft slid backwards and crashed tailfirst, just as one would expect...

To JA:

Yes, I had all the settings ON. To avoid what happened to you, here is what you do (at least, how I did it several times): you go about 350 meters AGL and at about 150 km\h. When you're ready, you maximize the torque (at 100% or even a bit more) and pull the stick up. You maintain the high torque as long as the helo raises its nose. When it passes the vertical point (i. e. when it pitches more than 90 degrees), you shoud decrease the torque to 0% very fast, so that when the helo starts falling back, the rotors do not pull it down. Then, the helo would be upside down, and continue turning, raising its tail. At the point, where it passes the second vertical point (i. e. nose straight down), you should immediately increase the torque to restore the lift. DO NOT RELEASE THE STICK until the helo almost comes to horisontal position. Then, level the aircraft, ajust the torque and enjoy your flying skills!

TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE IT'S A BUG:

It's not. As ZERO G correctly pointed out, it is possible. Moreover, Ka-50 can also do it from hover, which was shown at one of the airshows. I don't know how, and I don't know whether single-rotor tail-rotor helos can do that - maybe they can, I just don't know. If anyone knows it - I would appreciate it being conveyed.

huMMer


Posts: 50 | From: Moscow, Russia | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
huMMer
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posted 02-07-2000 03:11 AM     Profile for huMMer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Terminology clarification:

I am sorry for the confusion. Yes, "Dead loop" and "Nesterov loop" terms mean absolutely the same. It means in English just "a loop", it's only because I am Russian I put it that way. The point is in Russian we call it "Dead loop" or "Nesterov loop", but it's not some different "magic maneuver" . I definitely need to brush out my English here


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Zed
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posted 02-07-2000 06:34 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
well i've seen it loop, but never seen it do it from a hover. The reason i said it appears like a bug was it is too easy, which is not really a bug, but a poor FM. The thing is Nestorov stalled his plane over the top so the loop was very tight (much like a hammer head), which is what i though a dead loop was...AFAIK choopers cannot perform this type of manover as they need a good head of speed to perform this.

Zed


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huMMer
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posted 02-07-2000 08:34 AM     Profile for huMMer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
To ZED:

Well, you are absolutely right in this part. It is TOO easy. I will now make a confession here: I have never flown a helo a single minute in my life. All I did was playing sims, reading magazines and technical materials, talking to pilots etc. So my "flying experience", if you pardon the expression, is purely theoretical, not to say stronger. And, nevertheless, on my third try I looped! So it is too simple, but still it's so great!


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JA
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posted 02-07-2000 09:46 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi huMMer. Actually, my question was directed to @, who seemed to be able to stand the helicopter motionless on its tail without crashing, something I can't replicate. However - thanks for the loop procedure! I've been trying to do it unsuccessfully, because I had no idea what to do with the collective settings, and was thinking of asking you how you did it. Thanks - I will try the method you describe!
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JA
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posted 02-07-2000 02:40 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wow - it works, but it's kind of nerve-wracking, not having a Packard-Merlin or 2 Saturn/Lyul'ka AL-31s to compensate for poor judgment! Having plenty of altitude is very important - always a good idea when doing loops, but particularly so in a helicopter. This is a fun trick - thanks again for the method.
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