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Author Topic: What were the problems with 'Apache Havoc'
Skinny
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posted 01-18-2000 07:58 AM     Profile for Skinny   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Guys,

I work for 'Empire interactive' and I want to know your opinion, Yes I really do!. Heres the question, what improvements could there have been for 'Apaches Havoc'? i.e interface, multiplayer, gameplay etc, but within reason. Any ''burn it'' comments WILL be ignored!.

Cheers Guys

Skinny


Posts: 5 | From: Finchley,London,England | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Schurem
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posted 01-18-2000 08:07 AM     Profile for Schurem   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i liked the object detail, but maybe u should sacrifice a little of that to make the world more vivid, trees, infantry, that kinda thing.
also, i would have liked better wingman control and spiced up avionics
the flight model was very good, kudos for that
further on, keep the dynamic campaign, it was wonderfull
just make it a bit more lifelike, i mean the radio chatter in a-h wasn't all that

------------------
I just LOVE the smell of NAPALM in the morning

[This message has been edited by Schurem (edited 01-18-2000).]


Posts: 200 | From: nijmegen, netherlands | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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posted 01-18-2000 08:22 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Can we PLEASE have good 3D cockpits like those of C-H, PLEASE!!!!


I know this is a long shot but pilot/gunner multiplayer would be the best!!
Better/faster internet play?

A more visual damage model?

Other than that i think its the best!

Zed


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Skinny
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posted 01-18-2000 08:50 AM     Profile for Skinny   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zed:
Can we PLEASE have good 3D cockpits like those of C-H, PLEASE!!!!

Trust me it will! Skinny

I know this is a long shot but pilot/gunner multiplayer would be the best!!
Better/faster internet play?

A more visual damage model?

Other than that i think its the best!

Zed



Posts: 5 | From: Finchley,London,England | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Enforcer
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posted 01-18-2000 10:23 AM     Profile for Enforcer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well besides the "Phaser" cannon and no "front" seat. I'm pretty happy with A-H.

What's needed to get straighten is the multiplay weapons lag ! If you host all is fine, but if you are "client" you have in between half to 3 seconds of that lag...

One very neat thing tho while doing coop multiplay is the "goto" option.

We'll see how C-H will go, first few pics looks very nice indeed, as the rest of it as i've been told....

Enforcer.


Posts: 342 | From: Brossard, Québec, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Dave
unregistered

posted 01-18-2000 12:56 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi,
AH was extremely good and the 3d models and graphics in general were excellent, however I'll list the points that I found annoying.

1. Unable to view or plan waypoints via the map view without actually having to fly a helo.

2. Unable to determine which ground unit is communicating. They ask for help but we have no way of determining it's position.

3. Poor wingman control and AI. They don't fly formation on you or mask when detecting enemy.

4. Machine gun and cannon act like and look like phasers. No ballistic or spread calculations which made it look like a laser. If you were fired upon you were dead.
Also every round was a tracer instead of every 5th. (see Janes Longbow2).

5. The AI wouldn't always open fire. This mainly happened with the ships but did occur with the other ground units.
It would also be the case that enemy helos would fly right by ignorning you until you fired on them, then they'd open up.

6. Unable to fly with all the information on one screen. AH gave two front screen views - one looking out showing no MFD information and one look down view showing the MFD's but not enough outside view to fly with. I fly with the no cockpit view with the MFD's superimposed on the screen as a compromise.

7. Most people hated the in-flight chatter, things like 'It's just my job, not my fault I love it!' and 'He's toast'. Yuck! and the fake russian accents were poorly done.

8. No air traffic control on the airbases or carriers, it was possible to be landed upon by other helos when sitting at an airbase.

9. Landing fixed wing aircraft would stop abruptly on the runway as if arrested.

All in all this was an outstanding game though and I'm looking forward to buying CH.

Dave


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Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-18-2000 01:07 PM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

- I think some avionics tweaks: In particular the TSD and other tacitcal battlefield displays that show targets detected and transmitted by other forces. The "request" system in A-H's comms menu was so clunky it wasn't worthwhile. Quite frustrating in fact. If you're going to make a sim about hi-tech helicopters, you should play to their strengths; tactical awareness via datalinks.

- Better 3D representation of damage modelling (like showing a wing blown off).

- Multiplayer performance tuned for internet play with two to four players (more is a bonus).

- Support for some form of mission scripting.

- Get someone to do a kick-*** strategy guide.

- WAY better speech and wingman/flight commands.

- No bloody sheep ;-)

And I don't care how long it takes to make so long as it's got a nice feature set.


Yours sincereley,

Richard "Flexman" Hawley
Leeds, W-Yorks, United Kingdom


Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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posted 01-18-2000 01:52 PM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"Get someone to do a kick-*** strategy guide"

Your right Flex, the one that is avalible is really terrible!

Zed

[This message has been edited by Zed (edited 01-18-2000).]


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-18-2000 04:11 PM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Zed,

Just because you're the last letter of the alphabet doesn't mean you should have the last word.

(hey, that's pretty good for me)


Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
TetsuBo
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posted 01-18-2000 05:01 PM     Profile for TetsuBo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think you've guys covered the major concerns.
Some things about the ground units would be nice if they were fixed. I've got some pics of a road junction that is occupied by both vehicles from both sides and they're standing at the same positions so they're all "integrated" into each other.
Maybe also the way they fight when running into each other, more head on and not shell-lobbing.

I think the campaign is great but if you had better briefings and more specific goals you would create your own Scout missions all the time.

Thanks for listening to us.

And Flex don't you know that Ö is the last letter of the alphabet?
(back me up here, Blaze)
------------------
I am TetsuBo, eater of cookies and souls

[This message has been edited by TetsuBo (edited 01-18-2000).]


Posts: 127 | From: Stockholm, Sweden | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 01-18-2000 06:16 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hehe, who knows what other weird letters exist in other languages, but Ü would be the last one for me.

A little more on topic, this thread makes me wonder what we were talking about on the list for a whole year? Are RW and Empire not in contact with each other?

Blaze


Posts: 1556 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-18-2000 08:29 PM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Another thing about Apache Havoc I wasn't too keen on; was they way the enemy ground forces (tanks) stuck to the roads. "Thailand Welcomes Careful Drivers"

It was like they fought the war on rails.

I'd like to see less of that and a few more big tank enagements in open areas.

Two forces in close proximity going head to head. With choppers in support. Exciting stuff that. Breaks up the samey mission types.

------------------
Richard "Flexman" Hawley, Leeds, United Kingdom


Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Enforcer
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posted 01-18-2000 11:47 PM     Profile for Enforcer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Indeed Flex, you're right as i have lots of them convoys under orders to advance, but they are all stuck in some traffic jam!

Enforcer.

------------------
I don't eat cookies or souls, i kill them all...


Posts: 342 | From: Brossard, Québec, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Skinny
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posted 01-19-2000 03:03 AM     Profile for Skinny   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Guys,

Keep them coming!You have said alot of the points that we (QA) thought should be addressed!. We would also like any problems with hardware as well i.e graphic cards, soundcards, different configurations etc.

Heres a question for me, do you think that alittle more leway should be given for friendly fire incidents? I found that I made one mistake and was blown from the air! I understand that it was my fault but hey! we all make mistakes!. Also should the game be compliant with rudder pedals?

At the moment the game is looking very good and it is still early into testing I'm sure that you will not be disapointed.

Thanks again guys, speak to you soon!

Skinny


Posts: 5 | From: Finchley,London,England | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Skinny
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posted 01-19-2000 06:11 AM     Profile for Skinny   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blaze:
Hehe, who knows what other weird letters exist in other languages, but Ü would be the last one for me.

A little more on topic, this thread makes me wonder what we were talking about on the list for a whole year? Are RW and Empire not in contact with each other?

Blaze


I'm pretty new to the company, but I'm making my flightsimbuff presence felt! SKINNY


Posts: 5 | From: Finchley,London,England | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Yorkshire Tea
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posted 01-19-2000 06:52 AM     Profile for Yorkshire Tea   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The suicidal wingmen always bugged me in A/H, flying over the target in striaght lines till they got shot down. More pop-up attacks needed.
Posts: 315 | From: leeds | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 01-19-2000 12:44 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Roger that Skinny,

hope you didn't feel offended.
I was just wondering about such a question so late in the development of the the successor.

As for your original questions, most has been said already. Let me (on behalf of Inspector ;-) put some more weight in working multiplayer and the lack thereof in AH. I certainly hope CH will excell here.

About friendly fire, we sure have that in multiplay, especially when your partner suddenly appears on the ground radar. Those Hellfires do no good to an Apache! ;-)

But for the AI, yes I think you should not immediately be hunted down by friendlies. Rather give the appropriate debriefing, losing a lot of points and maybe a rank.

And of course rudders pedals should be supported!

Thanks for your time,

Blaze


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Zero G
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posted 01-19-2000 02:12 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blaze:

And of course rudders pedals should be supported!
Blaze

??? did you have a problem with pedals in AH?

Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Dragonfly
unregistered

posted 01-19-2000 03:02 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Skinny.

I assume these comments are going to be used for improving Comanche-Hokum, or am I wrong? Hope you got the list of suggestions I sent to you guys ( [email protected] ) on the 17th.

As for me, I've got a Voodoo3 3000 and would like to see Glide supported if it would give me higher fps. System also has 192 Megs of RAM, Celeron 366 oc'd to 550, and Monster MX300 sound card. TM FLCS and TQS, and soon to get CH Pro pedals or waiting for a new HOTAS setup. Of course support pedals!

Reiterating some of the suggestions I sent you:

1) 3D sound supporting A3D 1.0, 2.0 and EAX.
2) Need a wide array of communications with wingmen, artillery, tanks, infantry, bases and so forth. Take a look at Jane's FA-18, improve upon it and apply it to the helo arena.
3) External damage modeling
4) Environmental effects - fog, falling snow, blowing dust and smoke,..., you get the idea.

That should keep you busy for awhile. Don't rush it!! I'd rather wait a month or two longer and have it wail on LB2 than have just a moderately good sim. Impliment these suggestions and you will have people talking years down the road on how good it is. Terrain and other graphics already look very good.


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Blaze
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posted 01-19-2000 06:44 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"did you have a problem with pedals in AH?"

Nope, but the question from Skinny sounded like they were considering to not support them any longer.


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Zero G
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posted 01-19-2000 07:10 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ahhh so sorry I missed that post some how and your question seemed odd. With the FM improvements planned for C-H there is no way it could be done with out the pedals.

Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
SimFan
unregistered

posted 01-20-2000 12:58 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Lacking in A-H, and hoping it gets better and/or fixed in C-H:
- Multi-Player lag fixes
+ I hope ALL types of Multiplayer (Serial!, Modem, Lan, Internet) will STILL be possible in Comanche-Hokum: This (to me) would be
the most important new feature: Co-op missions in 1 Heli "pilot/gunner" type over a Serial cable link...
- Solution for an error that happens with some CDROM drive types in the "initial graphics conversion"... 'file is not a *.PSD file' (probably caused by the CD protection method that is not fully compatible with e.g. AOPEN CD-Rom drives) - this forced me to buy an additional CD-ROM drive, solely for A-H.
- Better feeling of "being there" (like in LB(2)). Now we tend to feel not really involved. Guess involvement like in the SIMIS heli sims would be nice too: pilot responibility, morale, fatigue...
Thanks, and I hope C-H comes to a "store near us" real soon.

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Skinny
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posted 01-20-2000 03:00 AM     Profile for Skinny   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zero G:
Ahhh so sorry I missed that post some how and your question seemed odd. With the FM improvements planned for C-H there is no way it could be done with out the pedals.

Z


Hi Zero G,

Just a quick note to say that pedals WILL be supported in C/H, (they would have had to kill me to stop them being put in!)

''I never saw man only a machine''

Skinny


Posts: 5 | From: Finchley,London,England | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-20-2000 05:03 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Personally I find "team management" rather tedious. I expect fully grown men and trained pilots to take care of themselves. If they can't hack it...well what the hell are they doing here?

Bye bye Suicide Bob. Don't worry about wingnuts from Moronsville. They no longer overfly targets, instead they bobup and hide when engaging threats.

You can taxi around, change the screen-res at any point, use your rudders, widgets and hows-yer-farthers.

There are medals, ranks, stats and a map screen with more gadets than you'll know what to do with.

Mission editing is restricted to your flight only but you can easily choose or create a mission profile and jump into any available gunship at anytime. Again via the impressive intelligence map.

Tracers scatter more and they will be made different colours for SA.


Force feedback *would* be a nice touch. I don't have a FF stick but a few people seem to have them.



Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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Member # 64

posted 01-20-2000 07:01 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"Personally I find "team management" rather tedious"

I'll second that!

Zed


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Dave
unregistered

posted 01-20-2000 05:39 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Richard,
Oooh, it sounds like you've seen a preview lately - prepare to be festooned with questions.

I have one re

Tracers scatter more and they will be made different colours for SA.

So it's not a laser anymore, is it similar to LB2?
I've got a serious hang-up about this, can you tell

Cheers

Dave


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Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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Member # 55

posted 01-21-2000 04:15 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Tracer scatter...it's being worked on. You won't be disapointed. Sticks in my craw too.
Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Dave
unregistered

posted 01-21-2000 07:20 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Richard,
Thats good news about the round scatter all we need now is the 'only every 5th round a tracer' bit?

Cheers

Dave


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