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Author Topic: Ka-50-2
Johnny
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posted 01-10-2000 09:32 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It would be great if Simis would include Ka-50-2 in their game.


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Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-11-2000 08:15 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

I'm curious. What's the difference between the Ka-52 and the Ka-50-2?


Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 01-11-2000 10:41 AM     Profile for Scout   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ka-50-2 is a highly modified version of.. you guessed it - Ka-50. The modifications by IAI (Israeli Airospace Industries) include two full-glass cockpits (pilot and CPG), integration of western type weapons and sensors along with original Russian-made ones and the neatest of them all - "retractable" gun turret design, a gun turret that retracts if gear is up and weapon safety is off and detracts under fuselage when gear is down. Extremely nifty.
BTW, the customer is Turkish Air Cavalry.

Cheers,
Scout


Posts: 715 | From: Israel | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-11-2000 11:05 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, that's what I thought.

So I ask again, what's the difference between the Ka-52 and the Ka-50-2? Both have the Israeli avionics fit, the Ka-50-2 is supposed to have this under-hull gun turret both other than that I can't see anything really obvious. I'm hoping someone can tell me, it's really bugging me now.


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Boogah
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posted 01-11-2000 11:11 AM     Profile for Boogah   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There's no point in having the 50-2 in the game. It's a completely different beast that has nothing to do with the original *Russian* helicopter. Lee (the lead designer on Alligator) and I had a go on the 50-2 simulator at the Paris Airshow this summer when we met the Kamov team. All the avionics, displays etc are completely westernized. If you want to fly it, Longbow 2 is probably better ;-).
Besides, Ka-52 is not only about flying a Russian helicopter. It's also about using Russian tactics and managing a Russian squadron, on typical Russian battlefields. So Turkish Army Aviation is off-topic here.

Boogah

Booga


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Boogah
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posted 01-11-2000 11:19 AM     Profile for Boogah   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Flexman, the biggest design difference between the Ka-50/52 and the 50-2, apart from the gun turret, is that the latter has a tandem layout for the crew, like most modern Western combat choppers. The side-by-side seating (bigger front silhouette, restricted field of vision for the crew) and semi-fixed gun on the Ka-52 were heavily criticized in the West, so Kamov made drastic changes to the original configuration to try and secure sales to Turkey.
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Zed
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posted 01-11-2000 11:37 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Flex,

The main difference between the Ka-52 & the Ka-50-2 is the difference in the in the role that they are designed to perform (i will go into more detail later on how this effects the structure). While the Ka-52 is a command-control a/c for tactical co-ordination of a helicopter flight the Ka-50-2 takes on more of the role of the Ka-50 which is that of tank-busting (the Turkish requirement) and to a certain degree COIN. The '-2' is really a reference to the two-seat conversion of the Ka-50 hull, extended nose, bubble-canopy (this some how throws away the concept of flat glazed panels not reflecting sunlight back to target). This was more to get away from the loud noises produced by Mil that one pilot/gunner was not enough, and to provide a more proven seating configuration. There has also been a westernisation of stores and the accompanying system & avionics to launch them. IAI put some of their avionics into this airframe (as apposed to the French Thompson aero-systems in the Ka-52) as well as IAI HMS, FLIR, etc. One point to note is that i do not think from seeing the mock-up that the ejection system has been maintained. Quoted performance appears to be the same or similar to that of the Ka-50 so major mechanical systems should be identical to that of the -50.

The real point of the exercise is political. It is politically intangible for a NATO member to directly purchase Russian mil. hardware direct from source (given suppler modification to Western protocol as in the case of Malay Mig-29s), and hence has to be 'washed' by reconfiguring the a/c to bear as little appearance to its forebear while still maintaining as much mechanically in common as possible. Anyways the Turks have been itching to get their hands on Israeli hardware for ages...and now the political climate is right.

Zed


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Scout
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posted 01-11-2000 12:08 PM     Profile for Scout   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

What's up with those XOOM URL's? Seems that if I cut and paste the picture location and then return to UBB it is looking fine. :shrug:

Cheers,
Scout

[This message has been edited by Scout (edited 01-11-2000).]


Posts: 715 | From: Israel | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zero G
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posted 01-11-2000 03:16 PM     Profile for Zero G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Xoom doesn't allow pictures to be linked to from their sites. Use angelfire or one of the other free site providers to link pics from. If you link one you get the xoom ad

Z


Posts: 374 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-11-2000 04:14 PM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

A sincere thanks to you Zed and Boogah for clearing that up.

Cheers.


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DaBaTT
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posted 01-13-2000 03:49 AM     Profile for DaBaTT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I actually spent the time to download the 28 meg avi of this sim and from the looks it seems to be a definate plus for my next helo sim..

DaBaTT
Ever dance with the devil by the pale moonlite?


Posts: 186 | From: Naples, Fl, USA | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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posted 01-13-2000 04:17 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Now was that Batman or the Joker?

Zed


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-13-2000 02:16 PM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Definitley "The Joker".
Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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posted 01-14-2000 03:48 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm not so sure...rem that Batman said this to the joker just before hitting him REALLY hard! And the 'bat' in DaBaTT would make it more bat_likely!!

[This message has been edited by Zed (edited 01-14-2000).]


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-14-2000 11:42 AM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Well if we're talking movies, it's the Joker (many years prior to his super-villan transformation). He said it Bruce Wayne after he gunned down his parents in "Crime Alley" (as revealed in a flash-back).

Ugh, someone get these movies out of my head, they just take up vital storage space.


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Zed
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posted 01-14-2000 03:40 PM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ah, but Richard, you are presuming that that phrase was exclusive just to the Joker; and yes the alley scene when they were both young, is possibly a pivotal point of the movie; but i put it to you that 'within this context' , the references here are for Batman and hence this is merely a rhetorical statement as produced by the said 'bat'.

Zed

[This message has been edited by Zed (edited 01-14-2000).]


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Richard 'Flexman' Hawley
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posted 01-14-2000 06:33 PM     Profile for Richard 'Flexman' Hawley   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Well I'm from plain and simple folk. I think you're talking daft. :-)

Shussh, I think somebody mentioned somthing about helicopters in another thread, lets go see...

;-)


Posts: 396 | From: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Zed
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posted 01-15-2000 07:32 AM     Profile for Zed     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bloody hell man, of course i'm talking daft! ITS THE DRUGS!

Zed


Posts: 866 | From: Midlands, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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