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Author Topic: Joystick and Keyboard Commands
Stork
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posted 01-09-2000 08:13 AM     Profile for Stork   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
For those of you who have been at this a long time what commands do you have programmed into your joystick buttons?

What are the best and most used viewpoints (according to the keyboard reference card) that you use for dogfighting?

What keys do you use to fly formation, especially if you're not leading the formation?

And lastly, do you use the utility called game commander instead of using the keyboard for commands especially verbal commands to AI wingman and groundcontrol?

Thanks


Posts: 40 | From: Cape Cod, MA USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
RichardG
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posted 01-09-2000 09:29 AM     Profile for RichardG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
If it's OK I'd like to "straphang" onto Stork's question: I just started playing EAW with a Logitech WingmanForce and would like to know how veteran players have programmed the buttons. Thanks.

------------------
RichardG
[email protected]


Posts: 598 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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posted 01-09-2000 09:50 AM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I'll take a shot at this....

First which commands you program into stick are based upon two criteria.

1) what stick you use (natch).

2) what commands you use most often or feel most confortable.

With the Logitech WWF (and some others) you have a limited number of buttons to program. Therefore it makes sense to program only those commands which you will use most often (fire, flaps, views, etc). You can increase the number of commands by programming one button to act as a shift key, thereby almost doubling the number available to you.

I and others here, have a HOTAS setup. We have a seperate stick & throttle along with pedals. I use a Thrustmaster F16 FLCS stick with a TQS throttle. These give me the ability to program 19 commands on the stick (actually 38 because one button is used as a "shift") on 4 4-way buttons and 3 single buttons. (I'm not including the trigger because that always remains, for me, the same...FIRE). The TQS throttle has one 4-way button, along with two switches (one is a two position switch and the other is a three position switch), I have, thanks to the "shift button" on the stick, 17 additional commands slots available. This list does not include two rotary knobs (one of which is also a push button), nor the "mouse emulator" built in.

Thus I, and other with a simular set up, only have to use the keyboard when staring and stopping the game.

So my advice is to try and figure out which commander you need most often and program those. As for Game Commander, if you have a limted number of options available to you, this software can be very helpful. It just may look funny to others that watch you play to see you "talking" to yourself...LOL

Good Luck

------------------
Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tailspin
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posted 01-09-2000 10:28 AM     Profile for Tailspin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I have a Wingman Extreme Digital. I think the buttons are the same as the Force. I have a pretty simple set-up.
Button 1- Fire guns(default or "space")
Button 2- Fire selected ordinance(default or "enter")
Button 3- Padlock closest in center of view("num-pad /")
Button 4- Deselect target("backspace")
Button 5- Flaps down ("F")
Button 6- Flaps up ("Shift+F")
I have my hat set to the various snap views since it is an 8-way hat it works better for me than the panning view. The centr position is the forward view so I have the Instrument snap("numpad 0") set to the forward hat position. I have the Deselect target(Button 4) so I can quickly regain the forward view if I become disoriented while trying to follow a bogey who I have padlocked. I also have flaps on the stick because they come in handy when flying the P-51 and P-38. Also can help with low-speed manouvers in any A/C. Again...Its a matter of personal preference, try different things. You'll find what you like.

Posts: 1895 | From: Metropolis USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Lawyer
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posted 01-09-2000 10:33 AM     Profile for Lawyer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I have done a good job of mapping the most useful keys for the MS Precision Pro and Force Feedback sticks using the MS Sidewinder software.

I also use Game Commander, and have mapped the remaining EAW commands not on the joystick. This is especially useful for radio commands. I even laid out the Game Commander commands in a two-page Word97 doc that is easy to read while playing.

I use the two together, which is the only way to go for people who like immersion and have normal hands and reflexes. I will gladly email these files to anyone who requests them. Contact me at [email protected]

As to your basic question, I use a mix of inside and outside views, along with turning the cockpit and padlock on/off. It works for me, but does require the quick button changes to make it possible. Game Commander commands are too slow for quick moves.

Cheers


Posts: 229 | From: Falls Church, VA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Stork
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posted 01-09-2000 12:41 PM     Profile for Stork   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks to all who have answered so far. I probably should have stated at the outset that I, like Richard G, have the Logitech Wingman Force. I did not realize that I could designate one of the buttons as a shift button thus doubling the commands on the joystick, thanks mane_raptor.

The commands that I have set on my joystick are:

Trigger: fire guns
Button 2: fire selected weapon (rockets/bombs)
Button 3: front view
Button 4: target closest enemy
Button 5: padlock current target
Button 6: padlock closest to center
Button 7: zoom in
Button 8: target next enemy
Button 9: zoom out

I'll establish a shift button so I can add flaps up and flaps down among others.
Do purists in this game consider the zoom keys cheating?
I'm interested in finding out what keys people use most frequently for dogfighting.
Thanks


Posts: 40 | From: Cape Cod, MA USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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posted 01-09-2000 01:39 PM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Stork:

That command list is good.

quote:

Trigger: fire guns
Button 2: fire selected weapon (rockets/bombs)
Button 3: front view
Button 4: target closest enemy
Button 5: padlock current target
Button 6: padlock closest to center
Button 7: zoom in
Button 8: target next enemy
Button 9: zoom out


A suggestion if I might:

#6 make as your shift key and make the combo of 6 & 2 Drop Tanks. The padlock to center is "loose-able", IMHO.

Drop Tanks might come in handy on an escort mission and your jumped. Flaps up and down as you mentioned would be another I would set up.

As for the purists (zealots? LOL)....well to my way of thinking, anybody who is using EAW without being in a three axis tilt chair with complete surround sound and a 300 watt subwoofer attached to it and is not using a digital HOTAS with forcefeed back and a 21" monitor is just playing a "game", but that's just my humble opinion!!!!!


------------------
Check six & aim for the cockpit.

[This message has been edited by mane_raptor (edited 01-09-2000).]


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 01-09-2000 02:43 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Who needs a keyboard or buttons. Only the two trigger buttons. I highly recommend gamecommander. It really adds to EAW.

Engine one; shift+[
Engine two; shift+]
Brake; B
Flaps; F
Retract; shift+f
Gear; G
Cockpit; F1
Radio; tab
Closest bandit; Ctrl+t
Ground target; Ctrl+e
Target; Num*
Buddies; Shift+y
Front; T
Zoom in; Num+
Zoom out; Num-
Double time; Pageup
Normal time; Pagedown
Runway; Shift+r
Clear; backspace
Next; E
Eject Eject; Alt+b
Jump; Alt+n
Drop tanks; Shift+d
Kneepad; Alt+m
Lights; L
Identify; Alt+i
All guns; Z
Machine Guns; X
Cannons; C
Bombs; W
Rockets; R
Vector Bandits; tab 7 1
Vector bombers; tab 7 2
Vector ground targets; tab 7 3
Vector home; tab 7 4
Request Assistance; tab 7 5
Mayday; tab 8
autopilot; a (don't use)
Wingman bandits tab 1 1
Wingman cover tab 1 2
Wingman regroup tab 1 6
Wingman fighters tab 1 7 2
Wingman bombers tab 1 7 3
Wingman my target; tab 1 4
Wingman ground targets; tab 1 3
Everybody bandits; tab 6 1
Everybody ground targets; tab 6 2
Everbody fighters; tab 6 6 2
Everybody bombers; tab 6 6 3
Everybody drop tanks; tab 6 6 4
Loosen formation; tab 6 7 2
Tighten formation; tab 6 7 1
Return to base; Tab 6 8 4
Six Num2 with a pause

These are the commands I have programed into gamecommander and they work great. Who needs the keyboard anymore?


Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gen Savage
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posted 01-09-2000 03:51 PM     Profile for Gen Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bigshot: Game Commander sounds very tempting. As to your list of commands-is that what you actually say into the microphone? Is that list of commands the template that comes with GC? And do you have to use earphones, too?
Also, is GC available at Best Buy, CompUSA, etc?

[This message has been edited by Gen Savage (edited 01-09-2000).]


Posts: 1642 | From: Houston, Tx USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 01-09-2000 04:04 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Yes to all. You program gamecommander any way you want and it's easy to do. Whatever commands work for you. You can buy it at any store that sells games for $29.95. It's well worth it. No you don't need earphones. Just speak softly into the mic. I use the mic that came with the game. Don't yell when things get tense. When I clear my throat, it selects "all guns" HEHEHE. It works most all the time and is pretty much instant. Once in a while you have to repeat yourself. Just speak clearly. It's great. And you can always use the keyboard for backup if you like. I fly much better when I'm not distracted looking for a key combo. Don't use "bailout". It mistakes it for "bandit". HEHE.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gen Savage
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posted 01-09-2000 04:46 PM     Profile for Gen Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks, Bigshot. Tomorrow Game Commander is bought.
Posts: 1642 | From: Houston, Tx USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Lawyer
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posted 01-09-2000 07:39 PM     Profile for Lawyer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Better yet, get it at www.gamecommander.com with different options, including the ability to work with Roger Wilco. You will never regret it.
Posts: 229 | From: Falls Church, VA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Capitan Manduca
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posted 01-10-2000 05:40 AM     Profile for Capitan Manduca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
These are my settings on Logitech Wingman Interceptor:

Button 1: Trigger
Button 2: Nearest Enemy

Button 8 & 9 (a kind of two positions button): Rudder right and left
Button 6 (I think): Rudder center

These two (three) controlled by the index finger

POV hat (center): 8 snap views

Hat 1 (left):
up: Flaps up
dn: Flaps down
lf: Brakes on/off
rg: Landing gear up/down

Hat 2 (right):
up: Zoom +
dn: Zoom -
rg: Cockpit on/off

Throttle: Throttle

The other hat positions and 4 buttons available are free yet, but I use to test some configurations as key strokes... i.e. Attack my target, Cover me (useful until your wingman is killed )

------------------
"Roll over, spin round and come in behind them. Move to their blindsides and firing again"
Iron Maiden - Aces High


Posts: 888 | From: Madrid, España | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Game Commander
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posted 01-10-2000 02:48 PM     Profile for Game Commander   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the testimonials, Bigshot and Lawyer.

Tip:
If you find that GC is too sensitive to outside noise or the accuracy is less than 95%, the mic level in GC is probably set too high or you have a mic boost or AGC feature on your sound card turned on. For more info see Setting the Microphone Level in the GC FAQ.

------------------
Take Command! Game Commander
www.gamecommander.com

[This message has been edited by Game Commander (edited 01-10-2000).]


Posts: 86 | From: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blade
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posted 01-11-2000 08:33 AM     Profile for Blade   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
The two most important presets for any HOTAS system is the target key, and a button that let you toggle between padlock and front view. Target is need so u can find a target since EAW res is not as good as real life so u will need this feature. The padlock on and off to default front view is important when u are in close up knife fight. U will need to padlock ur target to follow him but u'll need to snap back to the front view for orientation esp if u fly AC without window frames. U'll need to do this so a easily reach/activate toggle would be desirable so u can easily switch back abd forth. This way u can keep ur "Eyes" on target and keep orientation so U wouldn't end up a lawn dart.

Fire buttons is also must...

Yes I use game commander for offline, but use Roger Wilco Online when possible. They currently can not co-reside.

Well i am wrong they can co-exist. Just checked the GC website.

Just a question for the Game Commander member, how do I know which version of GC i brought. I got the store retail box copy with mic at EB about two months ago (with rebate sticker which already expired). Is it the standard or MX version and how can I tell.


Blade

[This message has been edited by Blade (edited 01-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Blade (edited 01-11-2000).]


Posts: 158 | From: Nepean, Onatrio, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gen Savage
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posted 01-11-2000 09:02 AM     Profile for Gen Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I already have Padlock and front view mapped to my joystick. BTW, I tried 2 CompUsa locations, a Best Buy, and Babbage's for Game Commander, got naught but blank stares. Took Lawyer's advice and ordered online from Gamecommander.com.

Posts: 1642 | From: Houston, Tx USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Game Commander
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posted 01-13-2000 01:08 PM     Profile for Game Commander   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hi Blade,

The boxed version of GC is the standard version. We are able to better reach gamers worldwide by selling over the web (saves our customers lots of shipping cost) so GC MX is only sold in downloadable form.

When you start GC MX, the splash screen and About dialog are appropriately labeled so you'll be able to recognize that you have MX. Also, the EXE file is gcmx.exe.

OK, OK, I'll stop there. You get the idea.

You can upgrade your standard version to MX for $10 at our site.

------------------
Take Command! Game Commander
www.gamecommander.com


Posts: 86 | From: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG5_Jerry
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posted 01-14-2000 01:59 AM     Profile for JG5_Jerry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Lol - I fly with keys and no-flightstick with no problems. I now find that I can usually press the key I want now without looking ...Of course, I don't get out much...
Posts: 702 | From: Kingston-Upon-Thames, UK | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 01-23-2000 04:26 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
General; Reference your question about commands with GC on other thread; it's easier to just bring this thread back to the top. You'll need to experiment with the various commands. The above commands work well for me. Keep them simple and a few as possible. Otherwise; you'll never remember them.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
matttm
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posted 01-23-2000 04:33 PM     Profile for matttm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
My setup is a ThrustMaster WCS II and FCS with a Saitek PC Dash. That covers everything...

Matt.


Posts: 692 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gen Savage
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posted 01-23-2000 06:30 PM     Profile for Gen Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bigshot: I copied and pasted your template into a word document. Looks good. You had a lot of commands the other templates left out. I assume since you use this all the time that Game Commander recognizes all those commands.
Posts: 1642 | From: Houston, Tx USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 01-23-2000 07:05 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Yep; works great. One thing you might want to remember though. I got four speakers and a subwoofer. The two speaks on my monitor have a separate volume control as do the others. I keep the ones on the monitor turned down a bit and crank up the other two speaks and subwoofer which sit off to my right. Game commander doesn't like speakers blasting 12" from the mike. Remember, just speak softly and clearly.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gen Savage
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posted 01-23-2000 07:36 PM     Profile for Gen Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
You know, I was thinking of doing a subwoofer type of thing. I have one for my stereo/video surround system (in another room), and the computer versions are not terribly expensive. Right now I have two speakers near my monitor w/volume control.
Posts: 1642 | From: Houston, Tx USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
DBond
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posted 01-23-2000 09:01 PM     Profile for DBond   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Gen Savage~ Ya gotta get a subwoofer for your system. Then you will really be able to feel those radials. Not to mention the guns. Makes a big difference, IMO.
Posts: 814 | From: Mays Landing, N.J.,USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gen Savage
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posted 01-29-2000 11:46 PM     Profile for Gen Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bigshot: I'm using your template for Game Commander and it works great. I've added a command or two, and changed the wording on a couple. Game Commander is easy to set up. Now I slide my keyboard drawer away for the duration of my EAW sessions. My wife even gets a kick out of the software.
I've also taken your and DBond's advice about the subwoofer. I have the subwoofer in place beneath my computer table with two satellite speakers on two adjacent waist-high bookcases, and have removed the two from the area of the monitor. There is now definitely a lot of meat in Meatwater's sound!

[This message has been edited by Gen Savage (edited 01-29-2000).]


Posts: 1642 | From: Houston, Tx USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
NJG88_Greywolf
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posted 01-30-2000 12:26 AM     Profile for NJG88_Greywolf   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bigshot,

I saw your comments about the Game Commander, and I was interested in how this would work with something like Roger Wilco. My squad flys a lot of wingman type things. and maintaining comms between all our guys is pretty important. Do you know if Game Commander will interfere with that?

GW


Posts: 149 | From: Chicago, IL, USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
JG5_Volt
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posted 01-30-2000 06:31 AM     Profile for JG5_Volt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by NJG88_Greywolf:
Bigshot,

I saw your comments about the Game Commander, and I was interested in how this would work with something like Roger Wilco. My squad flys a lot of wingman type things. and maintaining comms between all our guys is pretty important. Do you know if Game Commander will interfere with that?

GW


Greywolf,

I use GC(MX) & RW whilst flying with my squad mates and I have a key (K) set as push for talk for RW transmission and this way I can talk to my Squad mates when I need to.

JG5 Volt


Posts: 256 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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posted 01-30-2000 07:58 AM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
JG5_...; Check the gamecommander site. They got a version that works with RW as I understand. www.gamecommander.com
Have fun.

Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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