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Author Topic: HOW TO CRASHLAND AND ENJOY IT ?? HELP PLEASE !!
Edwin Rommel
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posted 01-20-2000 12:04 AM     Profile for Edwin Rommel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Herren

A very mundane but very real question- how to crash-land, and walk away from ze scene? I am not von of ze no-refly/remove EAW from the hard drive if you die in a career masochists , but would like to believe that it is possible to do ein “wheels-up landing, und walk away from it.

I have tried all the suggestions I heard here, but still end up making ze expensive hole in the ground all the time .

Here is what I try (EAW Version 1.2)

1) Slow as possible
2) Engine off
3) Full Flaps
4) Low sink rate
5) Stall just before touching if possible

Surely it must be possible to walk away (ja,ja- limp away then ) from a crash at 90-100 km/h from 5 m ?

Could von (or several) of ze experten tell me how to crash-land well ?- Hermann ist getting upset mit me for not bringing ze airframes back und rather bailing out?

Hilfe bitte!!!

Danke

E.R.

[This message has been edited by Edwin Rommel (edited 01-20-2000).]


Posts: 4399 | From: Dusty Oasis, Nord Afrika | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
RossC
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posted 01-20-2000 12:24 AM     Profile for RossC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hmmm, I've never had a problem crash-landing since EAW v1.2 came along. It seems to be a matter of keeping the plane straight, because if it catches a wing it will ball itself up. So, I like to come in a normal landing speed (110 per or so, I like Thunderbolts ) so I have complete control of the airplane. Keep the sink rate at 1000fpm or less, preferably less. A good 90% of my belly landings come out well, though I still cross my fingers if i feel the plane start to tip over once it starts sliding. It doesn't do any good, as I'm just along for the ride at that point. And I usually get captured anyway, so there doesn't seem to be a lot of point to surviving. Career is over.

So, no big secrets. Just keep the plane straight in all axes and slide it in at reasonable speed - not too slow (don't stall it, that's like a belly flop) and not too fast (for obvious reasons).

~Ross


Posts: 394 | From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tobiwan
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posted 01-20-2000 01:16 AM     Profile for Tobiwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Ja, watch the stalling, BAD idea.

I do most of my crash landings in a Spitfire or Hurricane .

Unless the Spits wing touches I'm fine. For the Hurri I come in at about 80-85mph, full flaps, engine off, wheels up, and touch with a nose high attitude of about 5deg.

My crazy friends and I have recently been practising high-speed wheels up landings! Yes we are a wacked bunch! We're good pilots though. My best was at 500kph in a really shot up Me-410...I didnt mean to land but I wasnt really in control and kinda flew into the ground. Ripped of both engines but I survived!!

One of my friends managed to survive a deliberate wheel up landing at 600kph+ in a Me-262...that was REALLY spectacular, skidded for 2kms and BARELY missed a clump of trees.

I was doing a low-level attack the other day when my P-38 lost it's tail (I clipped a Panther's turret!) I though "What the hell I'm toast anyhow" so I chopped the throttles and rammed down full flaps, my nose just came up enough (about 5deg down) so that my initial impact was a bounce, (at about 450kph! and 1/2km away from the convoy) I hit again with the aircraft level, bounce and on my final impact the left wing was ripped off, I spun around, lost the right wing, and finally came to a rest facing the convoy about 2.5kms away!


Posts: 893 | From: Amanzimtoti, KWA-Zulu, South Africa | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Capitan Manduca
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posted 01-20-2000 01:21 AM     Profile for Capitan Manduca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
low revs, open flaps and SHIFT-A... your plane will crash-land easily

------------------
"Roll over, spin round and come in behind them. Move to their blindsides and firing again"
Iron Maiden - Aces High


Posts: 888 | From: Madrid, España | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG5_Jerry
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posted 01-20-2000 02:08 AM     Profile for JG5_Jerry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I wouldn't use full flaps for a forced landing until the last minute as it eats up too much energy. Don't let the nose drop too abruptly either.
Posts: 702 | From: Kingston-Upon-Thames, UK | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
jerrykraut
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posted 01-20-2000 02:17 AM     Profile for jerrykraut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
The Captain is right, but ALT-A is unfair.
More than half of my handmade flown chrash landings have been resulted in several nice holes in the ground.
The reason seems to be in the graphics: it´s not so well in the game, to see all waves/holes at the ground. If you ditch in one with a part of the plane (seems to be a randomised function of EAW) it gave a boom.
Sometimes I´ve been sliddering over the ground, loosing speed down to 50km/h, then suddenly the plane exploded without any seen reason. Thats why I think its a randomised function in EAW. Having a great practice in doing that, cause I`m going always very close to the Dicke Autos.

Posts: 95 | From: Niedersachsen, Germany | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Capitan Manduca
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posted 01-20-2000 02:31 AM     Profile for Capitan Manduca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
AI seems to boom always when crash landing. I have also saw Hurricanes trying to land, wheels down, after been hit to explode.

------------------
"Roll over, spin round and come in behind them. Move to their blindsides and firing again"
Iron Maiden - Aces High


Posts: 888 | From: Madrid, España | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Edwin Rommel
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posted 01-20-2000 03:00 AM     Profile for Edwin Rommel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bitte, waß does zhis Shift oder Alt A do? I am not at home now, und am curious!!

Danke

E.R.

[This message has been edited by Edwin Rommel (edited 01-20-2000).]


Posts: 4399 | From: Dusty Oasis, Nord Afrika | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Capitan Manduca
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posted 01-20-2000 03:03 AM     Profile for Capitan Manduca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
SHIFT-A = Autolevel flight

------------------
"Roll over, spin round and come in behind them. Move to their blindsides and firing again"
Iron Maiden - Aces High


Posts: 888 | From: Madrid, España | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Edwin Rommel
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posted 01-20-2000 03:25 AM     Profile for Edwin Rommel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Ach Zhat is clever, but a bit nasty Ja?!!
Posts: 4399 | From: Dusty Oasis, Nord Afrika | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Old Guy
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posted 01-20-2000 08:38 AM     Profile for Old Guy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
If I have enough time I usually drop flaps and gear, kill the engine (if it isn't already dead!) and land normally. Hardly ever have a crash. I've also done a couple inadvertant high-speed landings, all of them, I think, in an FW-190. The bottom of the loop and the ground happened to coincide. No problem other than cleaning out my shorts!
Posts: 1769 | From: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
HarryM
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posted 01-20-2000 09:24 AM     Profile for HarryM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I managed it...once.

It was not by choice. I was in a 109 in a (very) low-level knife fight with some p-51s. The plane stalled. Suddenly I found my plane sitting on the ground its nose almost touching a clump of trees. Must have stalled and settled down like a feather. Full realism selected. Weird.


Posts: 1130 | From: Salinas, CA USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
RossC
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posted 01-20-2000 11:19 AM     Profile for RossC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I saw an AI plane execute a successful crash landing, once, though they almost always explde upon touching the ground, no matter how softly. I remember this because I shot him down, but didn't get credit for the kill! I was wondering if I would all the way back to base, and lo and behold...I seem to recall it being an Me410.

~Ross


Posts: 394 | From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gavin
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posted 01-20-2000 11:20 AM     Profile for Gavin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I agree with Tobiwan - stall and you shouldn't live, unless your at 2 feet alt.

I used to turn the engine off too for a belly-slide, but found that the slower scrape-in speed is not as important as preventing stalling. I let the motor run, throttle back, and go cut grass. I slid it in about 4 times in my BoB campaign and always walked away. The two times I didn't was when I stalled.

If the engine's kaput, I turn it off immediately, I've been able to restart it a few times to get that power for landing. You have to be close to a field though, as your now gliding home.

When belly-landing in a glide, airspeed is critical. It is best to get the plane down quickly, rather than try a long distance glide for home. You usually don't make it and you usually stall. Dive for the ground and then flare off, use the speed for maneuvering and time as you settle slowly to earth. Try to get down fast. Look for a field or road. If your over London, your pretty much hosed, get alt. and jump immediately. It's next to imposssible to belly-land in there, due to the rooftops. If you try to maneuver around them and line up on a road, you often stall.

If you are mortal and play no replays, then ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS hit the silk if at min. jump alt. or above and over friendly turf. Risking death by trying to glide it back to base and belly-in is courting disaster.

OTOH, it's a lot of fun, but try it in a single mission rather than risk your mortal campaign pilot's life.

------------------
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly
developed it may be." - Adolf Galland.


Posts: 370 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada. | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Karnak
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posted 01-20-2000 11:20 AM     Profile for Karnak   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
One thing: KEEP THE NOSE UP. You must not hit with a downward agle on the nose, you will die every time that way.

Sisu


Posts: 461 | From: San Rafael, California, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
RichardG
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posted 01-20-2000 11:30 AM     Profile for RichardG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Gruss Gott Herr Rommel,
I'm new to EAW (loaded the sim about two weeks ago) and have been flying single mission intercepts with the Hurricane. Although I've brought in the birds damaged, the gear always managed to go down. Last night I decided to try something new and switched to a Spitfire single intercept. The Spit's speed was a nice change of pace and it was good to fly in something that could tangle with the 109's and 110's. However, when I brought "Red One" back to Tangmere the gear wouldn't go down, so I pulled up, levelled off and bailed out. The game jumped me to "Red Two" which had the same gear problem. I reckoned the RAF would rather get a damaged bird back than no bird at all, so I lined up with the grass parallel to the runway and brought it down, levelling off at the last moment. It skidded along the grass, stopped and gave me an "engine destroyed" message; maybe the fitters could salvage the airframe? I wonder if other players have noticed if the Spit is more vulnerable to landing gear damage than other birds?

Posts: 598 | From: Chicago, IL USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
BeerNBrats
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posted 01-20-2000 04:32 PM     Profile for BeerNBrats   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Well, I've had "success" in crash landing lots of planes....'canes, Spits, P-47s, 109s. Heck it just about what I do best! Most recently, after destroying my engine by flying through some Hurricane debris, I brought my 109 down right next to some farmer's field. The most fun, however, was a one-engined Mosquito with damaged landing gear, smoke pluming...throttle back, nose up, 1/3 flaps until almost down, then full flaps. From the external view, it looks straight out of an old war movie, the plane skidding, catching a wing and then spinning sideways....in color of course! I lived, only to be captured....

------------------
Any plane flys better with a belly full of beer 'n brats!


Posts: 48 | From: Jamaica Plain, MA USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dave S
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posted 01-20-2000 10:58 PM     Profile for Dave S   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
You also have some rudder control after first touching down, so you can keep the wings from catching at high speed with opposite rudder when they first start to tip.
Posts: 57 | From: Enid, OK | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Edwin Rommel
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posted 01-20-2000 11:11 PM     Profile for Edwin Rommel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Herren

I am still crashing, but vorking on deiner suggestions. I tried ze Manduca trick even, but mein komputer would not allow me to engage the wing leveler or autopilot at low speeds?

Herr Old Guy

If I have gear, I use it, the reason for belly landing is exactly that- no gear = hydraulic failure. It happens quite often! Then again Ich habe zhis verrückte gunner in meiner Me 410, a guy named Shultzie, when I say "Loß" to drop ze bombs, he often drops everything else he can find as well, including ze gear! (He has been zhat way ever since zhat time the English Girl stood him up on his summer vacation in '29).

Herr Gavin: Ach, a No-refly masochist ( )- Für immersion's sake I try and bring ze airframes back ( most WW II pilots were VERY wary of bailing out, und Herman Göring are always nagging us about bringing his aircraft back!)

Herr Richard

Grüß!

Ze Spitfeuer 1 was prone to tail damage, which often implied hydraulic failure=no wheels. Later models had a stronger tail/fuselage construction, und thus less problems. Steep dives in ze Spitfeuers usually ends up mit rear-end damage und hydraulic failures

I vill try ze faster landing speed thing tonight!

Danke Alle Zusammen !

E.R.


Posts: 4399 | From: Dusty Oasis, Nord Afrika | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tobiwan
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posted 01-21-2000 01:24 AM     Profile for Tobiwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I was looking at Gavins comments about his BOB experiances.

I must be a far more suicidal Spitfire pilot.

Of my fifteen mission did 6 crash landings! I survived them all but the plane was destroyed in three of them.

Also I bailed once when I totally lost the engine at 5000ft in a dogfight with a Bf-109.

My best though was when I was chasing a He-111H at 2000ft over London. I got him but his tailgunner severly damaged my engine. I was over the middle of London, losing height fast AND I didnt want to risk bailing at 1800ft. Also I have a fair confidence in my piloting skills. And my gear worked.
So I landing in one of the streets! GEEZ that was fun! I LOVE THIS GAME! I barely missed several rows of houses as due to overheating my engine blew at 500ft when it was too late to do anythine about it!!


Posts: 893 | From: Amanzimtoti, KWA-Zulu, South Africa | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Old Guy
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posted 01-21-2000 12:30 PM     Profile for Old Guy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Mr. Rommel;
Indeed, the same thing happens to me. Last week I wound up in the middle of a Belgian town at belly scraping altitude with a pack of Fw-190s shooting my plane to scrap. I only had time to kill the engine and line up on a handy street. Survived and was captured.
I wish one could do a little E & E after getting on the ground in one piece. My dad says the girls in Belgium were pretty friendly . . .

Posts: 1769 | From: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gavin
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posted 01-21-2000 05:11 PM     Profile for Gavin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Tobiwan, yes your right. You know that 'stressed out' feeling some of us have been talking about near the end of a career? Kinda the 'jeez, that would bite if I got wacked on the last day of the war' mentality?

Well, I get that near the end of each mission. After I've done 1 or 2 passes on the main bomber formation, I 'cess up and decide if I've taken too many bullets or not. If I have, I'll hunt the skies for a smoking loner and go wolf (pick on the sick and the weak, they are easy to kill)

If I haven't taken a scratch, I'll throw myself back into the main stream to try to slow 'em up.

I have developed a sense for when I've 'had enough' for one day and it's time to head home while the plane still works. From reading some books on RAF pilots in the BoB, this was a common theme. Many pilots would only make one good pass before heading home, especially if the pass has put them in a bad position (like in a Hurricane and at 1000 feet, watching the bombers head off at 20 thousand). Another bad position is you and your hopeless two wingies against 12 109's, and they're doing a good job sticking themselves between you and the bombers. It's best to head home and get them tomorrow. If you dive in, chances are, you'll get both wingies killed and will have to scrape in with a shot out engine.

It's an important part of the 'no-refly' fanaticism. You have to care about your pilot. You have to genuinely grieve when he dies.


Posts: 370 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada. | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tobiwan
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posted 01-22-2000 06:38 AM     Profile for Tobiwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Yes.

And Genuinly crap yourself when you see that row of BIG houses through your stopped prop.


Posts: 893 | From: Amanzimtoti, KWA-Zulu, South Africa | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Twitch
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posted 01-22-2000 05:28 PM     Profile for Twitch   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I always stop the engine and never use flaps then just keep the nose ever so slightly up as I touch.
Posts: 638 | From: L.A. CA U.S.A. | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Saburo_O
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posted 01-22-2000 08:16 PM     Profile for Saburo_O   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I haven't ever caught the geer on anything even when landing in a field. Seems like wheels up was the safe way to go, but in EAW you can ditch with 'em down. Anyone disagree?

Oh I saw an AI B 17 make a nice wheels down landing, but only once. No kill was awarded either, kinda ticked me off but it was cool to watch, ya can't help but root for those guys when you've been in the same position.


Posts: 88 | From: Champaign IL | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged

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