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Author Topic: Nominations for the Worst Proposed Update to EAW
Majesty5
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posted 12-24-1999 11:43 AM     Profile for Majesty5   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
As for the different game covers, I think the covers were for Jane's WW2 Fighters. I went over to Germany in March of this year and I remember they had a different box cover for whichever game it was; "we" had a Mustang featured, and they had a front-end shot of a 109 on the attack. The way the 109 was flying, though, you couldn't see the swastikas.
Posts: 789 | From: Dallas, TX, USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
JWC
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posted 12-25-1999 05:34 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Jamie,
About the catapult thing.......really have to ditch?.....

Yes. Or the pilots bail out, depending on the sea state. That was why they used a Hurricane (and the part about it being "war-weary"). The idea was to use a fighter which was no longer a front-line type (and thus expendable), but which was still fast enough to catch an FW200. I'm fairly certain that the British had no pontoon-equipped aircraft that could catch a Condor (just recon types/no fighters.......now the Japanese, on the other hand, DID have a number of seaplane fighters.....and of relatively good performance, due to the fact that the Japanese could not easily build airfields on many of the more remote islands). Even if the British would have, seaplane operations on the open ocean were often limited by wave height (it was pretty hard to land unless the sea was very calm).


mane_raptor,
.....where did they get the pilots??? Who would be crazy enough to fly such a mission? Any idea on the number of missions flown, kills and esp survival rate?

I'm at my parents' for Christmas and don't have access to any of my reference books at the moment (plus my memory is pretty sketchy about it), so I don't have any hard information concerning the numbers. In most of the books I have read on the Battle of the Atlantic, the CAM is usually mentioned (sometimes with drawings and/or a photo or two) in passing as an illustration of just how desperate the British were at the time for ANY solution to the FW200. I'm not aware of any books offhand that really go into great detail about the program. I'm going by memory now (and it's pretty foggy, so don't accept this as the gospel truth), that a couple of ships did go to sea with catapults, Hurricanes, and pilots, but never had the opportunity to use the catapult. At any rate, the development of the escort carrier (which I think began entering service at about the same time) pretty much eliminated the need for the CAM's. I'm not aware of anyone ever writing a book dealing specifically with the CAM program, and any accurate data on those subjects (missions, kills, survival rate) seems hard to find. As far as the pilots go, DON'T LOOK AT ME! You know the first thing they're supposed to tell you in the Army: "Never volunteer for anything!" I rather think that applies here. LOL! ("...that's what I call hazardous duty pay!") On the other hand, I suppose there were probably quite a few merchant sailors (had they actually been qualified pilots) who would have been perfectly happy to have a crack at a Condor, considering that the aircraft could circle with impunity in full view of a convoy (safely out of AAA range), while radioing the ships' exact position, speed, and any course changes to just about every U-boat in the North Atlantic!

[This message has been edited by JWC (edited 12-25-1999).]


Posts: 1633 | From: College Station, Texas, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Sublime
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posted 12-25-1999 09:47 PM     Profile for Sublime   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hmm bad idea for an addition......
Monty Python Catapult-A-Wooden-Bunny launcher .. hehe knock down those bombers with style =)

Posts: 33 | From: Dayton OH | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
LLv34_Snefens
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posted 12-25-1999 11:11 PM     Profile for LLv34_Snefens   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Jamie,

When you say European version bear in mind that there are several different 'European' version.

From the back of my memory I think it there is Spanish, Italian, German and of course English. (No french I have seen post at other boards where some french guy(s) ask how to make the menu and inflight text french. Appreciated project btw. Can always need more pilots.)

It is however only the german version that has the swastikas stripped. All other 'European' version have them included. Also the reason why people with the German version had to wait a bit for version 1.2 I think (At MPS site it is listed as being posted a few days later than the rest), they had to do the extra "remove swastika" coding.

Like it has been mentioned before this doesn't stop germans/austrians (got two such in my squad ) from buying the english version, and if playing online it is quite easy to spot what version the host has as the countdown will be displayed in the 'national' languages "Spiel Startet in...8" (sorry for spelling) for instance.

I have heard that there was also difference on the standard english version and the 'Scandinavian' version (which I might have got), but not sure. Something about the 'keycard'. I got it on backside of manual, but heard several has it seperate on a piece of hard paper.

------------------
LLv34 Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34



Posts: 329 | From: Aarhus, Denmark | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
LLv34_Snefens
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posted 12-25-1999 11:15 PM     Profile for LLv34_Snefens   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Oh and worst proposed update?

I always wanted 'power ups' included in flight (I admit, inspired by Nations )

That would really make online playing 10 times as fun :P

------------------
LLv34 Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34



Posts: 329 | From: Aarhus, Denmark | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jamie Richards
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posted 12-25-1999 11:49 PM     Profile for Jamie Richards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the reply, JWC. One thing, CAM stands for Catapult-Armed Merchantman, I assume...if it's correct, don't bother acknowledging...but wait! Yes, acknowledge! We need to reach 10K posts in a hurry!

Snefens: Yes, I'm sorry about not being more specific about the EAW version. By European, I did in fact mean the German version. I was aware of the Spanish and Italian versions, and assumed that the German was the only minus-swastika version. But quite right you were in admonishing my vagueness! You know, I actually downloaded and installed the German version myself a while ago...I found it helpful (and amusing) since I am trying to teach myself German (with my brother's help)!

I hope everyone had a nice Christmas. I did, of course. I spent the day with my girlfriend and my relatives. Gifts? Freespace 2 and Roller Coaster Tycoon were among them, so I'll be kept busy till I go back to school on January 3! Now, I'm looking forward to a quiet, reserved New Year's celebration...it is, after all, not really the millennium...it's only been 1999 years since the official "birth of Christ"! And you just watch, all those people who pooh-pooh me for saying this now will turn around in a few weeks and agree that next New Year's is the REAL millennium, and start getting ready for an even BIGGER BASH!

Jamie Richards


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buz13
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posted 12-26-1999 12:33 AM     Profile for buz13   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Polish Chit Chat.......actually I like that.
Italian Fighters and bombers...there actually were a few.
Barrage Ballons over London
....I kinda like all of these....


Posts: 385 | From: Seattle, WA USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
JWC
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posted 12-26-1999 06:28 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Jamie,
Catapult-Armed Merchantman

That's always been my understanding ("catapult-armed" as opposed to "catapult armed-merchantman"), although like I said, I've never really run across any in-depth information on the CAM program. It is possible that the CAM ships did have a surface gun or two (and if so, maybe some AAA as well). The British (and later, American Merchant Marine) did mount an older surface gun on some merchant ships, especially earlier in the war. However, all British North Atlantic merchant shipping traveled in convoys escorted by warships (destroyers) by the time the CAM was conceived, so I would have to think there would have been little need for an armed merchant ship to do much with naval gunfire! The real value in the CAM lay in the fighter plane it could launch.


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mane_raptor
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posted 12-26-1999 06:43 AM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Jamie and JWC (and anybody else)...

Way back in my younger days I read a story about a proposal to use iceburgs as escort carriers. The plan was to mix sawdust with the ice, carve off a huge burg, outfit it with engines, guns, towers, etc and sail it back and forth until it melted.

The resason for the sawdust was that when mixed with ice it made the ice stronger and able to resist gunfire, etc.

Anybody remember hearing/reading about this?

On to a brave new world, 10k posts..

------------------
Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
RichardG
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posted 12-26-1999 10:00 AM     Profile for RichardG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
There are chances to earn a Victoria Cross, Knight's Cross, etc. What about a "Hero of the Soviet Union" track, except the only way to earn it would be to fly Polikarpov I-16s using ramming techniques?
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mane_raptor
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posted 12-26-1999 10:09 AM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
RichardG...

I can just picture it now....

Back of plane, a voice rings out, "RAMMING SPEED!", the drum beats louder and faster...

LMFAO!!!!!

------------------
Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Nashwan
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posted 12-26-1999 04:29 PM     Profile for Nashwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
A CAM Hurricane was used in combat at least once.
During PQ16, the CAM ship Empire Lawrence launched her Hurricane, which shot down 1 He111 and damaged another. The Hurricane was then shot down by AA from one of the merchant ships. No info on the pilot.

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Stanley99
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posted 12-26-1999 06:20 PM     Profile for Stanley99     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Maybe he swam to the Lawrence to beat up the AA-guys?

Stan

------------------
Every man dies, not every man really lives.


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JWC
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posted 12-27-1999 12:55 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Stanley99, if he was a CAM pilot, he was probably nuts enough to try it!
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JWC
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posted 12-27-1999 12:58 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Nashwan, thanks for the info. Like I said above, "...my memory is pretty sketchy about it..."
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JWC
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posted 12-27-1999 01:01 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
mane_raptor, now that you mention it......I do seem recall something about that.....but that's all I know concerning "iceberg airfields".
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JWC
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posted 12-27-1999 01:12 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Snef, [...heard that there was also difference....english version and the 'Scandinavian' version....the 'keycard'. I got it on backside of manual.....seperate on a piece of hard paper.

Yes, if you are referring to the card which lists each key on the keyboard and what its default function is in the game (sort of a "map" of the keyboard). My keycard is a large piece of posterboard which folds 3 or 4 ways to make storage easier (I can't remember exactly how many ways it folds; I haven't had to use mine for quite some while and have no idea where it is........hmmm, maybe it's easier to keep track of when it's on the back of the manual.....)


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JWC
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posted 12-27-1999 01:15 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Normally I would have posted all 4 of the previous messages in a single post, but I'm making an unabashed, overt attempt to help us get to 10,000!
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guitarman
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posted 12-27-1999 02:03 AM     Profile for guitarman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
EAW Patch 1.4
Rearview mirrors
CD Player

Posts: 129 | From: Spingfield, Missouri | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jamie Richards
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posted 12-27-1999 02:32 AM     Profile for Jamie Richards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Mane_raptor, I remember reading something about iceberg ships too. But where did I hear about it? It was pretty recently that I heard it. I think maybe it was brought up as one of the wartime projects of some famous scientist who later developed something else quite well known. Does any of that ring a bell?

Jamie Richards


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Nashwan
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posted 12-27-1999 06:37 AM     Profile for Nashwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Lord Cherwell (Churchills scientific advisor) was behind the idea for iceberg airfields ,IIRC. One of many insane schemes he liked.
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Ernie
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posted 12-27-1999 05:34 PM     Profile for Ernie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Well, I guess while deleting swastikas may detract from the authentic atmosphere of the game, there's no getting around what a hated and powerful symbol it is - particularly in parts of Europe. I know there are pros and cons to this...

As to another terrible add-on, how about gaudy adverts, like one sees on racing cars and all around other sporting events. Each squadron would have its own corporate sponsor, and the planes would proudly carry their logo. Chilling.


Posts: 36 | From: Portland, Maine, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Ernie
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posted 12-27-1999 05:36 PM     Profile for Ernie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Well, I guess while deleting swastikas may detract from the authentic atmosphere of the game, there's no getting around what a hated and powerful symbol it is - particularly in parts of Europe. I know there are pros and cons to this...

As to another terrible add-on, how about gaudy adverts, like one sees on racing cars and all around other sporting events. Each squadron would have its own corporate sponsor, and the planes would proudly carry their logo. Chilling.


Posts: 36 | From: Portland, Maine, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
PHilA
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posted 12-27-1999 10:08 PM     Profile for PHilA   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Re: RichardG
Now I think that would be a great add-on! I would add Seversky P-35s and a Malaya-Java campaign with Brewster Buffalos. In fact, If I had software company, my flight sim would be called "Buffalo!". You would start as an RAF/RAAF pilot in Malaya and be handicapped by inadequate training and equipment. The game would include oil soaked windshields, no gunsights, a random gun function where some or all of the guns would randomly jam, and intermittently working radios. In addition, the Buffalo would not be able to climb above 15,000 feet except on rare occasions. The campaign feature would allow you to evacuate to Australia if you manange to score three kills or more. I would alos develop a campanion sim called "Devestator!". Of course, few people would buy these things and the company would go belly-up!

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RossC
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posted 12-27-1999 11:49 PM     Profile for RossC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hey, Pacific Air War (Gold, anyway, that's what I've got) had the option to start a career in Devastators. It was hilarious, you started just around the Battle of the Coral Sea. Manning that sad, sad, little .30cal in the back during the flight in was great, hard to hit those dang Zekes, they almost always made slashing attacks, not nearly enough dead astern stuff.

Ha, I remember bombing some airfields and the thing started to shudder when you reached 250mph in the dive!! I don't recall getting to the point when units switched over to Avengers (around the time of Midway), always died first.

But "Buffalo!" sounds cool, I'd buy it! Don't forget "Catalina!" and "Whitley!" or "Hampden!" Haha.

~Ross


Posts: 394 | From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
no609_OzZiggy
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posted 12-28-1999 07:41 AM     Profile for no609_OzZiggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
my mistake ..yah topedo runs in swordfish ..yep thats right ...(shuffling feet looking embarrassed)...what about a paint pellet add on for those that dont like the "virtual" though of killing someone or something
Posts: 92 | From: at the moment germany munich (but im an aussie) | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
HarryM
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posted 12-28-1999 10:00 AM     Profile for HarryM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
What about "Lysander!" add-on. The saga of a (not too bright) target-tow pilot who flys behind enemy lines...

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"Hast du schon mit dem Teufel getanzt?"


Posts: 1130 | From: Salinas, CA USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-28-1999 11:10 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
About the swastika-thing...
While it may appear like nonsense to us, this was a step in the process after the war, in order to remove the nazi threat from germany...this was done rather thoroughly in Germany, but not so thoroughly in Sweden and Austria.(Anyone correct me if I'm wrong)
Well, measures like this may have helped prevented nazism from spreading....I mean, that politician in Austria(Haider? Jorg?) seems dangerous to me, and Sweden has seen a frighting development lately.(nazis murdering political enemies and so on.)

------------------
Der Opa



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Stanley99
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posted 12-28-1999 06:08 PM     Profile for Stanley99     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Yep, sad but true, the Austrians were - some fools still are - somewhat very slack about this. The saga went like "we were the first victims of Nazism, and the Germans conquered us"... ********!!! - mind you, we were even successful in trading Beethoven as an Austrian (just because he lived some time in Vienna) in exchange for Hitler (born in Braunau, Austria) - that scumbag painted postcards and sold them in Vienna in the 20ies, but wasn't very successful (makes me wonder, what would have happened IF he would have been...dang, just a few postcards more sold and maybe he would have never considered going into politics...)

In the years after the war, members of the NSDAP were prohibited from participating in policy, and didn't have the active and passive right to vote - which changed pretty soon, and parties here made themselves a bad image for competing for the votes of the ex-, still-, or "never-have-been-it-was-just-my-horse"-NSDAP-members...

This "lying-to-ourself" continued, and as this Waldheim-for-president-thing appeared in 1986, all the scandal and rouse about it was very helpful for Austrians to finally admit to the wartime-past (40 years later!!!), and to confess to ourselves our real role in the war - this guy was then a former UN-president, and in the war served as a Communication-Officer (dunno if that's the correct term, he was responsible for reports and stuff) in Greece, mainly in the Saloniki area. He lied about his wartime-past, and even had the low level to say "I just did my duty" - which is a common excuse in Austria of the elders, of people who were party-members, or served as soldiers, or were memmber of the SS - that "elite"-gang of Nazis, it comitted some of the worst atrocities...

He was elected as president...

The following international isolation (very good idea! ) was even more a reminder that this way of seeing the wartime past was utterly wrong.

Things then have changed to the better - one Austrian Chancellor (Prime Minister), Franz Vranitzky, made a public statement about the nazi-past and apologized for it - even this rather public-relation-act was a no-no before...

Especially the youth in the country became more aware of the dark past - and the fact that the wartime-generation is now in old age and more-or-less "dying-out" adds to the awareness.

I coud continue on and on, about property still not repatriated to the Jewish community, about xenophobism...

But to make it a bit shorter, let's come now to this guy named Joerg Haider. He is the leader of the Freedom Party in Austria, and has success after success in recent general elections - now his party, with 27 percent of the poll, came second in the last election.

This person is a "right-winger".

Once, as then Governor of the southern-most Austrian province, Carynthia, he even said "At least in the Third Reich they made a decent employment-policy"...he was demanded to resign, refused, and then, with a vote-of-no-confidence, forced out of office...

This person is a populist. This person has no moral doubts to use xenophobism as a political weapon, and his party makes effort after effort to make life for Non-Austrians residents in the country harder and harder - recently they called for a "minus-immigration" - which is their word of expelling foreigners... He is renowned for saying something today, apologize tomorrow, and when tensions flatten, just to reinvoke what he has said. And he and his party are renowned for filing lawsuits against critics... which has me to put caution in what I type here (hope you get the hint)

I think he is dangerous - but thank God "only" a local character. I would compare him more to folks like Le Pen of France, the Flaams Blok in Belgium, and those guy in Italy who wants a secession of the northern part of Italy. He, Haider, of course does not like the comparison - nor do the mentioned persons or parties.

I never ever want him to see having a major political role in Austria - he can lead his party until he gets old and grey - never ever want him to see being the Chancellor.
I just hope the other parties - especially the People's Party - don't ever invite him into a coalition. And the Freedom Party havin the majority is a nightmare...

"Shocking" to see all this, me typing about the country I was born? I got no problems - it is sad, but it is the truth, so why not say it:

Austrians had a major role in the Second World War, were prominent in the Nazi party, some of the "top ranks" were born in Austria - Hitler, Eichmann (the man who had the leading responsibility for the "Final Solution", the genocide of about 6,000,000 Jews, Sinti and Roma, homosexuals, communists, and all kind of political opponents) and others, give me names if you know.

And yes, I like my country - it is the lying about the past, the recent switch back to a right-wing party, the Freedom Party (what name!), its leading politicians and all their 27 % voters I absolutely dislike, even hate.

And yes, the rules concerning swastikas and nazi-symbols in general do has its purpose, and I think it is very good to have this law - to prevent neonazis, and other idiots using them. Especially Germans - which learned their lesson well! - and Austrians (see above...) should be more sensitive, given the past.

I think the reason why computer-games are affected by this law, is because they are seen as childrens-toys - the fact that most people see those symbols just in the historical context does not change anything...

Stan the Austrian

------------------
Every man dies, not every man really lives.


Posts: 3692 | From: Vienna, 3rd rock left | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
II/JG26 Von Fillen GrK
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posted 01-09-2000 02:28 AM     Profile for II/JG26 Von Fillen GrK   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
About the illegal Swastika in some air sims...
The swastika is prohibited by law and severe jail not only in Germany and Austria...
other Nations that prohibited every display of swastika are:
Slovenia, Croatia, Yugoslavia, Czeck Rep., Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, All ex URSS Nations, Poland, and a couple of others.
In all this Countries the display of swastika is considered higly illegal, a crime worth of emprisonment for not less of 2 years, the loss of any civil right and the costant control for lifeterm by the police.
Sounds very stupid but...law is law....
Of course, the history is history, and the winner always tries to change the history in the books for his benefit...
Very sad......

Posts: 52 | From: San Marino | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tannethal
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posted 01-12-2000 06:22 AM     Profile for Tannethal     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Disregard this post!

[This message has been edited by Tannethal (edited 01-12-2000).]


Posts: 537 | From: Olbernhau Germany | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Straffo_EAF329
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posted 01-12-2000 07:32 AM     Profile for Straffo_EAF329     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
S! all

I'm sorry to said that you are wrong Snef there is a French version of EAW

Just take part of a game I host and you would see "Le je jeu démarrera dans X" and I'm quite sure it's french as I'm one of this "stinky cheese"/"froggies"

Best regard


Posts: 30 | From: France | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tobiwan
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posted 01-12-2000 07:56 AM     Profile for Tobiwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Did you say something nasty Tannethal??

Anyhow this topic sux.

I was really enjoying the Gloster Gladiators, Fairy Battles and CAMs. (which BTW will all make GOOD upgrades to EAW!!)

I wanna fly of a small escourt carrier in the Pacific. You know the type that had Martlets and Swordfish on.
You could intercept Condors and other anti-ships raiders like Do-217s, He-111s etc. Occationally you would tangle with long-ranged Ju-88C heavy fighters or flying boats. You could attack E-Boats and U-Boats with your 6 .50s and 250lb bombs, (and later with the Martlet IV, rockets!) and you could cover and perform flak-suppresion for Swordfish as they attack U-Boats!

I like it!


Posts: 893 | From: Amanzimtoti, KWA-Zulu, South Africa | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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