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Author Topic: New Brit Radio Chatter? Explain!
Gavin
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posted 12-06-1999 02:40 PM     Profile for Gavin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I've heard rumours and odd posts of a couple of attempts at changing the Brit radio chatter. As many agree, I too think it should be more country-specific, ie, it was OFFICIAL POLICY for an RAF pilot who first spots the enemy to call out 'Tally-Ho!'.

Other terms include:

'Buster' - often used in a scramble situation, it means 'run your plane at full throttle', usually to gain alitude as quickly as possible.

'Liner' - cruising speed, I've never heard an example of this, but one might be:
'Bandits, 40+, vector 180, liner' meaning, cruise there at standard speed.

All the other common terms, bandit, angel, vector are all used properly.


AND GET RID OF THE WINCHESTER!!!!

It shouldn't be used by ANY of the radio chatters.

AND WHERE'S THE GERMAN RADIO CHATTER???

I don't want to hear 'I've got one' in German, I want to hear HORRIDO!!!

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"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly
developed it may be." - Adolf Galland.


Posts: 370 | From: Victoria, BC, Canada. | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Majesty5
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posted 12-06-1999 03:32 PM     Profile for Majesty5   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I second these notions!

I actually wouldn't mind a few exclamations, maybe even a touch of profanity. Air combat and all its terror and excitement should be modeled as well as possible in a game.


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Karnak
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posted 12-06-1999 06:20 PM     Profile for Karnak   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Also, weren't many of the British groud controllers WAAF (Women's Auxilary Air Force)? Tuck seemed to indicate that it was so.

Sisu


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JWC
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posted 12-06-1999 10:18 PM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I agree, changes to the British messages would be nice. They would make the game even better than it is now by adding an even more "realistic" feel.
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TonyH
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posted 12-07-1999 04:08 AM     Profile for TonyH   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Why can't we take some of CFS's radio chatter and change it to Eaw's sound file type? if its possible, I don't know if you can though.....If anyone can do this I'll mail them a load of german and british and US sound files that I downloaded from microsofts site........cos I don't have a clue. It might be nice to hear Horrido said every now and then.............thats soundfile 'shootdown00r.wav'
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Gavin
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posted 12-07-1999 10:41 AM     Profile for Gavin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
The glorious women of the WAF were used in the radar huts and as 'rakers' on the 'big table' to move the coloured blocks around.
In the huts they 'manned' the scope and passed the track info up the ladder to the filter room, where it was compared with messages from the observer corps. Finally the appropriate sector HQ's were notified to deal with the raid. At sector ops, the ground controllers would order the scrambles and vector the fighters.

Given the time period, this was a huge leap for women's equality in the military, even though the RAF insisted on them all being RAF Auxillary. Many thought that the women would fly into a 'panic' or 'snap' under bombing, but they proved otherwise, standing by their posts and doing their job, right up until the raid they were tracking arrived over their heads and bombed them.

Unfortunately, given the time period, I cannot see ANY man allowing a woman to 'get on a radio and order fighter planes around the sky'.

It simply wouldn't do, old chap. Fancy that, having a woman order you about the sky. What would the pilots think? (tongue in cheek)

Heated arguments often erupted between pilots and ground controllers, as they, for example, ordered the fighters to fly straight through a thundercloud just because the vector said so, or they brought the fighters in just below the 109 escorts, almost as a sacrificial offering.

Due to standard male chauvenism, I can see no possibility of WAF personnel being allowed on the radio.


Nowadays, I'm sure it's common, though, a great place for women even in those airforces that stick by the ridiculous notion that women have no place in combat!

(ever see a mother eagle defend her chicks?)


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Collison
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posted 12-07-1999 11:29 AM     Profile for Collison   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Ah, but I know for a fact that women were allowed on the other end of the radio. All of the war literature I've read has female ground controllers featured, in the fictional accounts often as the love interest, but also mentioned often in the non-fiction stuff. In fact I think it would be fair to say that most of the ground controllers were women, but also some men.
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Gavin
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posted 12-07-1999 11:50 AM     Profile for Gavin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
And all of the stuff I've read lately
('Duel of Eagles' by Peter Townsend)
('Fighter' by Len Deighton)

Does not mention ANY case of a female ground controller. Certainly there was a lot of phone traffic from the RDF station to the filter room.

I would almost completely discount any fiction on the matter, that sounds more like a plot device to me. I'd be interested to know of any non-fiction you've read stating this, though. I'll post on the Battle of Britain board and get back to you, too.

------------------
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly
developed it may be." - Adolf Galland.


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Karnak
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posted 12-07-1999 01:18 PM     Profile for Karnak   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Fly For Your Life, Forester's book about Tuck, done by interviewing Tuck mentioned female Ground Controlers. The book was not fiction, nor were the women Ground Controlers presented as "love interests".

Sisu


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Donster
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posted 12-07-1999 01:40 PM     Profile for Donster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Don't remember the name of the movie. About a Lancaster pilot, his plane is shot up, trying to get back to England. The Woman ground controller is talking to him, helping him find the way home. All the crew are dead. He is trying to decide to go down with the ship, or bail out. She trys to talk him into it. I think he bails out. But anyway I guess he thinks he's dead and is in heaven. Somehow he meets her as an angel. Maybe someone else remembers this movie. Black and white, couldn't tell you who was in it.

Donster

[This message has been edited by Donster (edited 12-07-1999).]


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Pharaoh
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posted 12-07-1999 02:11 PM     Profile for Pharaoh   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Greetings gentlemen!

Been quite a few years and wouldn't mind seeing that movie again, remember liking it quite well.

The movie was:

STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN" (aka:UK Title: "A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH") - Starring David Niven, Kim Hunter, Kathleen Byron, Richard Attenborough, Maurice Goring, Raymond Massey. Directed by Michael Powell - Opening with a pilot, squadron leader (David Niven) trying to nurse his flaming bomber back towards England from a bombing run over Germany. The crew has bailed out but Peter (Niven) is left with a shredded and worthless parachute and is trying to bring his plane home. During radio contact with the young American woman named June (Kim Hunter), his ground contact controller, they become instant friends and Peter...looking into the face of death says, "I love you June, you're life, and I'm leaving it"...and with that he jumps from the burning bomber. Shortly afterwards Peter who is amazingly alive, washes ashore and sees a young woman riding her bicycle home. Of course it's June and the two fall instantly in love. But, a problem exists...Peter should have died! Heaven has made a terrible mistake! Heavenly Conductor 71 (Maurice Goring) is sent to bring Peter back. Peter refuses and a heavenly tribunal must be convened where Peter can then argue his case. Note: The heavenly scenes are shot in black and white and the movie is filled with wonderful effects and humor such as, when the spirit leaves the body, all life on earth freezes. And sharp eyes will spot that there is a "Coke machine" for those arriving in heaven and newly-appointed angels are seen carrying their wings in those plastic "wing" (dry cleaning) bags. A true classic and hard to find treat for Niven fans. 1946. Rated PG (for thematic elements), Color/B&W, VHS, 104 Minutes, 1997 Columbia/TriStar.


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"A mind is like a parachute; it only functions when it is open." Sir Lewis Dewar


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Donster
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posted 12-07-1999 02:18 PM     Profile for Donster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thats It! Thanks Pharaoh! Good movie!

Donster

[This message has been edited by Donster (edited 12-07-1999).]


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Pharaoh
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posted 12-07-1999 03:13 PM     Profile for Pharaoh   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Now you did it Donster! <g> Knew the name of the movie, found the rest of the info on eBay. You got me thinking about it so much that I went back and placed a bid on the tape! Looking forward to seeing it again.

By the way, in reference to "Bridgette" and my wife taking top turret in the upcoming B17II, I have seen many a reference to this obviously wonderful Bridgette, but most of the posts referring to her were just before I fully became involved in the Forum. Please enlighten. (And don't worry, I live up to my "signature" and do not offend easily . . . neither does the wife. ;-)

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"A mind is like a parachute; it only functions when it is open." Sir Lewis Dewar


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PHilA
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posted 12-07-1999 04:02 PM     Profile for PHilA   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
re: female flight controllers. On the subject of movies, the 60s, film "battle of britain" shows a few. I recall a scene in the climax where one keeps repeating "come in red two...come in red two" etc. Of course, red two has gone down in flames. Since it was a British made film, one could argue they wouldn't thrown them in if it didn't happen, but it also could be dramatic license. Perhaps it is safe to assume that more women came on later in the war but that there probably were not many at the time of the BOB.

re: Stairway to Heaven; That has to be one of the most unusual films (in a good way) ever made; I like the fact that there was a special place in heaven for downed allied aircrew and the coke machine is the first stop for a newly arrived american bomber crew...I have always found that scene poignant and troublesome at the same time.

By the way, what is the origin of "winchester"? I never heard of the expression prior to playing EAW.


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Donster
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posted 12-07-1999 04:39 PM     Profile for Donster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Pharaoh,

Ha Ha! Little do you know! I am a secret sales rep for e-bay! You fell for my little trick!HEE HEE HEE!

Miss Bridgette is a character, who flew with Miss Fifi, as a gunner on a B-26, on this forum. When she would get upset, or run out of ammo, she would throw a high heel or her Bra at the enemy fighter on there tail. Miss Bridgette is a blonde, buxom bombshell! Miss Fifi, was also well endowed. There was, and may still be a web site that has them both and Hein Kill featured. I'm sure someone here has the address. Thanks again for the movie tip.

Donster


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Donster
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posted 12-07-1999 04:43 PM     Profile for Donster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
PhiLa,

Winchester is a term used by American jet pilots when they run out of Ammo. I wish it was not used in EAW. Maybe one of the brilliant guys that post here can maybe someday change the voice's and terms in EAW.

Donster


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PHilA
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posted 12-07-1999 05:38 PM     Profile for PHilA   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Donster,
Thanks for the answer--definetly anachronistic. Up until now I thought maybe that RAF fliers were comparing the rate of fire and ammunition time of their browning 303s to that of the winchester 75 found in cowboy and indian films. A romantic notion at best.

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Der Fremd Fokker
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posted 12-08-1999 12:03 AM     Profile for Der Fremd Fokker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I think ve have alle had enough mit der 'Winchester', nein?
Perhaps someone could send a request to Herr Meatwater?
http://www.meatwater.de/fs_page1_eng.htm

Posts: 107 | From: Perth, Western Australia | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
No105_Archie
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posted 12-08-1999 08:18 PM     Profile for No105_Archie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Other than the "British" accents the RAF radio chat is way off base. The Brits NEVER EVER EVER used the term "Rodger" and generally called the enemy "trade" not "bandits". Ammunition is just that and not "ammo" I have no clue who came up with the "winchester" thing.A previous posts comments about the terms "Buster" and "Liner" are correct and were terms used to describe how much throttle to use. All in all the Brits should be very sedate on the "wireless" with minimum chit chat.
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PHilA
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posted 12-08-1999 08:44 PM     Profile for PHilA   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Even though it may be off base, I still think the RAF squadron chatter is pretty good and more full of flavor than the U.S. and German chatter (I also prefer the original german briefings over meatwater's--too much shouting!). The scottish accented "lets get them" is much better than the goofy Amercian version "lets get those guys"--sounds like a line from the dead end kids. I always get a little chuckle from the stiff upper lip dead pan voice that simply states: "I'm on fire...bailing out"
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Gavin
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posted 12-10-1999 11:09 AM     Profile for Gavin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
My favorite is the seldom-heard 'Let's get those blighters!'


Also, the Germans get first prize for cool Ground Controller and Flight names. With names like Valhalla, Wotan, and Hammer, you get right into the Teutonic Warrior mentality!

(Now all we need is someone to set up a way to listen to 'Ride of the Valkryes' in the cockpit, other than blasting it out on a ghetto beside your computer)

------------------
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly
developed it may be." - Adolf Galland.


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56thFG Savlan CO
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posted 12-20-1999 08:10 AM     Profile for 56thFG Savlan CO   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
RE: the use of females as Ground Control, in Robert Johnson's book "Thunderbolt" he tells a famous harrowing tail of nursing a crippled P47 home with a FW190 hammering away at his tail. When he was over the channel and thinking of bailing out, he heard a beuatiful English female voice on his radio, guiding him to a safe emergency airfield. During the whole flight, Johnson had tensely kept his mike keyed, and the GC heard the whole incident, gunfire and cursing!
S!

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56th F.G.Savlan - C.O.
ICQ 34891398
http://members.tripod.com/Zemkes_Wolfpack/


Posts: 57 | From: Babylon, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gavin
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posted 12-20-1999 11:17 AM     Profile for Gavin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Yes - very good plot device for Hollywood, but seldom reality.

------------------
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly
developed it may be." - Adolf Galland.


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RossC
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posted 12-20-1999 11:34 AM     Profile for RossC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Yes, but Johnson's story is true. That's probably where I got the "all controllers were female" thing as I've read that book dozens of times. It's the flight that solidified the Thunderbolt's reputation as nearly indestructible, that FW-190 expended all his ammunition (cannon & MG) on Johnson's plane yet he still flew home. He didn't bail out because the canopy was jammed shut and he was near blind from hydraulic fluid in his eyes. No rudder as the cable was cut, but he tried to get the cable to work by hand, so he pulled 30 feet of cable into the cockpit - it's a harrowing read.

This happened sometime in 1943 (fall?). Maybe the English gave their female ground controllers over to the Americans...?

~Ross


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Gen Savage
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posted 12-20-1999 08:09 PM     Profile for Gen Savage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Donster and 56thFG_Pharoah: Stairway to Heaven is one of many great films made by the British duo called "The Archers"-Michael Powell and Emeric Pressberger. As a team, Presberger wrote their films and Powell directed them. Two other excellent war films by that team are "One of our Aircraft is Missing" and "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp". "Aircraft" tells of a bomber crew attempting to return to England after crashing in the Netherlands. "Blimp" is a thoughtful study of a VC-decorated soldier from the Boer War finding himself out of date as the face of warfare changes through 2 world wars. Other must-see films by this duo: "49th Parallel"-Nazis from a sunken U-boat attempt to escape across Canada, "Black Narcissus", "The Red Shoes",and "Tales of Hoffman" Also, on his own, Powell directed "The Thief of Baghdad"-the excellent 1940 Sabu version, and 1960's notorious "Peeping Tom". I know it's a little off-topic, but your rhapsodic waxing over "Stairway" prompted me to plug some of their other masterpieces. My 2 worth.
As to incongruous radio chatter, nothing could be worse than the German pilots of Jane's WW2 Fighters shouting "Grand Slam",or more properly "Grend Slem" after you shoot down 2 or 3 allied fighters.

[This message has been edited by Gen Savage (edited 12-21-1999).]


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