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Author Topic: The "sounds" of combat experience...
Majesty5
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Member # 572

posted 12-09-1999 03:16 PM     Profile for Majesty5   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
May I first say, Herr Meatwater is the Mack Daddy. I have his soundpacks and freakin' love 'em.

BUT... I've always wondered about the sounds you hear in an airplane. I've been up in light planes and airliners, but I always find myself wondering about what it really sounds like to sit in a high-powered Gun with an Engine, and to use it in combat.

Particularly gun sounds... Has anybody ever really described what it sounds like to fire machine guns in a fighter? I think the word is "onamatapoeia", where you try and write what something sounds like. I've never really heard anything consistent...

In my imagination, it's really a strange bit of controlled violence, when you fire. I expect there's just the pure repeated "BANG" of staccato concussion, and then you'd also have high-pitched cracking noise, the sounds of gun machinery working in the mid-ranges (Meatwater's .50's have this quality), and like a low rumble of machinery from the belts moving and all that stuff, and that would carry on through the frame of the airplane, like a bass rumble you feel in the seat of your pants.

Odd, what I hear in my head is a lot simpler than when it's written down... The other thing is volume. I'd like those guns LOUD.

Thoughts? Am I nuts? I've always wanted a bit of a harder punch to gun sounds in sims...


Posts: 789 | From: Dallas, TX, USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Collison
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posted 12-09-1999 03:44 PM     Profile for Collison   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Robert Johnson wrote in his book Thunderbolt that the first time he fired his guns in combat, he thought his plane was being attacked as it felt like it was disintegrating around him. His description was a lot more vivid than that, but apparently it should be a lot more dramatic than portrayed in these sims. I can imagine, having a total of 8 .50" machine guns 10 feet on either side of your head.
Posts: 50 | From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Rudy G
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posted 12-09-1999 07:37 PM     Profile for Rudy G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Have you been here ?
http://rudeerud.home.netcom.com/index.html

Rudy G


Posts: 94 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
PHilA
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posted 12-10-1999 03:03 PM     Profile for PHilA   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I have nothing to base this on but I think gun volume has a lot to do with atmospheric conditions like humidity, and wind, etc. Also, I was always under the impression that the weapons sounds would be muffled by the engine sounds from the cockpit. I think the best weapon sounds are in CFS and Janes WWII. Meatwater is a big improvement in EAW but I think the 50s still need work.
Posts: 96 | From: | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bob
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posted 12-10-1999 09:56 PM     Profile for Bob   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I don't know how the guns in the WW2 prop fighters sounded, but I can give you a first hand description of 20mm sounds in jets.

I flew 167 combat missions in Vietnam in an F-100. The F-100 had 4-20mm cannons. We usually fired them in pairs to conserve ammo. The firing rate was 1500 rounds per minute per cannon. That was a combined fire rate of 6,000 rounds per minute with all four cannons selected (100-rounds per second).

The sound was very muffled in the cockpit. You could hear a modest "burpppp" sound and feel some very minor vibrations on the stick. Of course we were wearing insulated helmets.

Hearing these cannons outside the cockpit is a totally different matter. It is a deafening roar. During the times that I pulled Range Officer duty on the practice range, I was always impressed everytime a Century series fighter roared by the range tower on a strafing run. First, you hear the roar of the cannons, followed a split second later by a small sonic boom as the rounds break the sound barrier, about the time they pass the range tower.

The 20mm cannons are an awesome and intimidating weapon to anyone on the ground that may be subjected to a stafing run. The high explosive rounds that we fired were nearly the equivalent of a hand granade. Imagine a 2-second burst of those things coming at you if you were on the ground.

Bob


Posts: 95 | From: Mesa, Arizona, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Collison
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Member # 965

posted 12-10-1999 11:05 PM     Profile for Collison   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I've heard the Phalanx close-in missile defence gun (yeah, yeah, surface Naval stuff but I am a frustrated pilot), though of course while it's extremely impressive sounding it's altogether different from single-barrel weapons (brrrraaAAAAAAAAAAAAAp). I wasn't ever close to the .50's used when boarding other vessels when they were fired, though the overall effect sounds closest to the Jane's sim.

Cool info on the F-100. Though I can't help but feel that in a creaky old prop job it would have been, inside the cockpit, like you descrided the Hun guns from outside, a serious cacaphony. A leather "helmet," some plexiglass and some thin aluminum was all that was between the P-47 pilot and the muzzles.

I've got the "effects" volume in EAW cranked and it still doesn't seem right.

~Ross


Posts: 50 | From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
MeatWater
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Member # 1346

posted 12-11-1999 02:04 PM     Profile for MeatWater   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Well, first I'd like to thank everyone who's enjoying my SoundPacks. When talking about the (gun-)sounds in EAW I would like to draw your attention to another factor that greatly affects the way a sample sounds once it is put into the sim: you never have a SINGLE sound playing at the same time - there's the engines, other aircraft around you, flak bursts etc. It may be easy to have a wav file that sounds "right", but once put in the game and tested "on the field" most of the samples I had in the beginning turned out to sound different (worse). It was very difficult to create engine samples that would sound good both in formation and alone - almost lost my mind there. You get all kinds of phasing-effects, and the sounds have to be "meaty" but still undistorted. Same with the guns: I had talked to some veterans including my dad who was a rear gunner on a Ju-87 in Poland and later in France, and they all said that the engine noise was so darn loud that some smaller calibers could hardly be heared at all! When they returned from a mission their ears were totally dull for at least an hour, and many times had it been very difficult to hear the radio loud enough. What I'm trying to say is that the sounds in v2.5 of the SoundPack are really the best I could come up with. Before we start discussing the various gun sounds, we should keep in mind that the program itself allows only for ONE radial and ONE inline engine sound for ALL planes. I whish I could have changed THAT.

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MeatWater

[email protected]
http://www.meatwater.de
http://www.creadesign.de


Posts: 139 | From: Munster, Germany | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Majesty5
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Member # 572

posted 12-11-1999 04:25 PM     Profile for Majesty5   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the enlightening post, MW.

Understandable about the only-one-sound-per-engine-type deal... I hope we can all get our filthy little game-fan hands on the code someday to change this kind of thing.


Posts: 789 | From: Dallas, TX, USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
VonGunn
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Member # 313

posted 12-12-1999 09:44 AM     Profile for VonGunn     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I have had the pleasure of attending a public display of live fire at the Smokey Hills Bombing Range in Central Kansas. They had 52's 16's and the A-10. The bombs they dropped were cement filled practice bombs...but the cannon rounds were live. The grandstand was setup about 1/4 mile from the straffeing run line of fire and about 200 yards uprange from the target. The A-10 was the most impressive of all.

You couldnt hear it when it started its run from about 1 mile uprange and 1000 ft. AGL. At about 3/4 mile from the target they cut loose with the 30mm Vulcan. A cloud of white smoke rolled out of the front of the Hog, then you could see the tracers comming toward you, passing infront of you, like small streaks of fire moving really quick. The next thing you heard was a sharp Crack as the rounds broke the sound barrier. The small explosions as the rounds tore up the target and bounced around off the ground. then a few seconds later your heard the gun. A2-3 second muffled BBBBBBBRRRRRAAAATTTTT. Only after the A-10 had passed were you able to hear the engines from it.

Let me tell ya....I don't want to be infront of that thing again when they fire it......Very impressive firepower there. From my position in the stands the A-10 Fired at my 10 oc position to my 2 oc position.

FWIW
VonGunn


Posts: 377 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Twitch
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Member # 75

posted 12-18-1999 04:28 PM     Profile for Twitch   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I use Meatwater's old 20mm sound, from version 1.3 I think it is, for the .50 caliber sound in 2.5!
Posts: 638 | From: L.A. CA U.S.A. | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Nashwan
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Member # 91

posted 12-19-1999 02:22 AM     Profile for Nashwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I heard an a10 firing at a range near where I live. I first heard it from the other side of a hil and couldn't make out what it was. It sounded like a lunatic reving a tractor.

Posts: 514 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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Member # 845

posted 12-19-1999 07:02 AM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
You want sounds???? Try this....
http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/001046.html

------------------
Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Storm
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Member # 1480

posted 12-19-1999 07:13 AM     Profile for Storm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Being stationed formerly at Hurlburt Field, (I'm now at Eglin AFB), I had the honor to witness a nighttime fire power demo put on by the Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC). We had MH-53J Pave Low and MH-60G PaveHawks coming in at tree top level, firing 7.62mm miniguns, and .50 cals, spewing flame and tracers. Very impressive. But what stoled the show were the AC-130H Spectre gunships. They orbited over the range, completely blacked out, waiting for their cue. They started with the 40mm Willy-Pete rounds. All you saw and heard was the stacato beat of the Bofors cannons, and saw the tracer rounds coming down from the sky. When they hit, they sparkled and made a huge target to hit. From out of no-where, A-10's rolled in with their 30mm Avenger cannon, and softened up the target some more. They were the Sandies for this demo. Then the Gunship kicked it into high gear, and unloaded with their 105mm howitzer. After putting 15 to 20 of those down, the target was really "softened up" and they opened up with the twin 20mm Vulcans. I can see why the Vietnamese were terrified of this beast. A terrifying roar and twin tongues of flame, along with red tracers, coming down from the heavens, is the only way to describe it. It was a great experience!
Posts: 606 | From: Crestview, Florida USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged

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