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Author Topic: OK, why no huge American bomber formations?
Collison
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posted 12-08-1999 12:16 AM     Profile for Collison   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
This is something I've noticed and is kind of bugging me. The Jerry raids in the BoB are monstrous - no scientific count here, but I think on my last hop there were five (could have been four) closely spaced formations of He-111's comprised of 30 or so airplanes each. Plus escorts. It makes me feel very small when I nail maybe one of them, but it's a realistic feeling.

Now, when I fly as a German intercepting US raids, there might be two stacks of 18 planes spaced five mile apart. Actually, escort missions, too, seem like that as well. A dozen P-47's escorting 18 B-17's seems overkill. I've yet to see the monstrous formations I see in the BoB, and it seems wrong. I have ExtraSquads=3 in the EAW.ini file.

Any explaination for this?

Thanks all,

~Ross


Posts: 50 | From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tannethal
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posted 12-08-1999 02:45 AM     Profile for Tannethal     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Try out EAW Control 1.6 (available at Combatsim, Airbuddhas also?) and set extra squads to a higher or lower number.
2 is balanced, 5 is high friendly activity,
0 is high enemy activity.
Anyone might correct me if I'm wrong on the numbers.

Posts: 537 | From: Olbernhau Germany | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Collison
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posted 12-08-1999 01:05 PM     Profile for Collison   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Like I say, as a Brit, the German air raids are huge. As a German, the American air raids are, well, pathetic. No differences in the ExtraSquads setting (I have it at 3). I'm just curious as to why that is.

~Ross


Posts: 50 | From: Williams Lake, BC, Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Donster
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posted 12-08-1999 02:17 PM     Profile for Donster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
This is just a thought, but maybe the people at Microprose felt that, since the US bomber formations did not really get large in number until '44-'45, and by that time the number of Luftwaffe fighter responce had dwindled dramatically, that they configured the game the way they did so it would not get to "onesided" and thus the game would be more "fun" the historically correct?

And the large Luftwaffe formations in BOB were set up because the RAF could also put up decent numbers, even though still outnumbered, and still make the game "fun"?
I guess what I am also trying to say is that maybe Microprose was figuring there are still more anti-German than anti-Allies buying the game?
Just my thoughts.

Donster

[This message has been edited by Donster (edited 12-08-1999).]


Posts: 10794 | From: Cedar Rapids, Iowa USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
ButcherBird13
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posted 12-08-1999 02:52 PM     Profile for ButcherBird13   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
OK ,

Im using the "time machine here"

Blowing the dust off my memory.......

Way back in Dec 98/Jan 99 when this game was new there were many simular posts. The main question then was How come I can get 256 planes in single mission but not in campain.
It was the ORIGINAL PLAN for campain missions to have this number BUT crashes were occurring based on type of machine that was used.So rampent was the problem they just eliminated the numbers to a level that was manageable By all computers.

The extra squads option was so that the formation size could be increased as time went on. Thats why it works in the game NOW because it was DESIGNED in it in the 1st place.
Every notice the "not supported by MP " disclaimer with this? thats why!
B17 are less # because a 4 engine bomber is hard to make than two and more graphically demanding . { esp when I make a pass and they have 3 engines SMOKING LOL }

This ties into the posts of graphics here.
You can run 233mmx pI computer no problem EXCEPT WHEN LARGE FORMATIONS OF B17s are in the sky and DAMAGED.

Check back here in this forum to bear this out.

I can get about a hundred planes maybe 150 in a campain mission but thats it .

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There is ALWAYS a WAY if your COMMITTED !


Posts: 292 | From: Holland Western Front | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blade
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posted 12-08-1999 03:07 PM     Profile for Blade   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I don't know but I been on some missions in both 43 and 44 that there were a lot of US bombers around. When I am on escort duty I get 12 escorts with about 27 bombers in my immediate area. When I look back I can see another formation of about another 27 bombers and sometimes there is an additional formation with another 27 plus additional escorts back behind me. I can't use F9 to see them but at the beginning but occasionally I can friendly target them but they are there. Later after battle been joined I can use F12 and see that they are being attached by emeny fighters. I can also tell its not my escorted formation since by using F9 and counting how many to toggle thru my sqdn (12 or less) then my escorted bombers (anything greater then 27 is not them) then it goes to other friendlies before the emeny AC shows up.

As a German Intercept pilot I have engage the lead formation of bombers and seen at least 2 other bomber formations following with about 20+ AC each and sometimes with additional escorts. These are not escort since most escorts are 12 or less. I can head in their direction and eventually target them but they don't count to your mission success so I don't mess with them. Usualy by this time I am out of cannon ammo and just sight seeing anyway.

To think about some more I don't remember at this point if I was in a camp mode or flying a single mission when this happens.

You guys may be right about no large US bomber formations in Camp mode. Have to check this out this wkend

Blade


Posts: 158 | From: Nepean, Onatrio, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Brand
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posted 12-09-1999 12:27 AM     Profile for Brand   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
There has never been a problem with large groups crashing EAW. However, they did slow the game down a lot.

The reason we didn't have a lot of heavies in the EAW campaign was that they slow down the game more than the fighters. Each bomber is actually two plane objects pieced together, so 20 B-17s slow the game as much as 40 P-51s. All you have to do is go into a formation with them to notice the frame difference (especially if some of them have been hit). This was a decision that had to be made, because we were targeting the game for as broad a range of computers as possible. In order for the game to run on a slow machine, we had to cut some heavies.

In the 1.2 patch, we decided that there should be a way for the users to bump that up if their computer could handle it (kinda like WWIIF clouds). So, we let the users increase the overall number of planes, to increase the experience.


Posts: 1 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-09-1999 05:24 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I used to circle above bomber formations with my staffel of 109Gs, to wait for them to drop out stragglers, but since the game kept crashing at high Extrasquads settings, I had to lower it. So it CAN lead to crashes, but then, my computer is getting old.

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Edwin Rommel
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posted 12-09-1999 05:28 AM     Profile for Edwin Rommel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Ja-Ja- Ve all get old-!!

Opa
Vhen are you going North young man?
Du are going to play PE für ein jahre?

E.R.


Posts: 4399 | From: Dusty Oasis, Nord Afrika | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-09-1999 05:44 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hehe...will be going to Troms in August, so I still have some months. Been talking to some fellow EAW-junkies(who got into flight school), and we are going to try to play online against eachothers while we're in the army.(hehe....does have some advantages.)
Besides, I have Panzer Commander, and that's enough for me

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
BodyBag
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posted 12-09-1999 08:16 AM     Profile for BodyBag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Well, there is something strange with the ExtraSquads option.

When playing on the German side in BOB, the ExtraSquads only give the English side more fighters, never the German side.

Your measly 10 fighters gets 12 more Hurri/Spits opponents for each number you set, without any German reenforcements.
So if you has it set to 3, your poor 10 Bf 109's will come up against 48 English fighters in a sweep or an escort mission.

And the German assistance via Ground Control has never been fixed, - when they appear it's always in the wrong place and they all travel north - big deal!

Also the German bombers don't get multiplied when you are on the German side.

Why?


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Edwin Rommel
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posted 12-09-1999 10:18 PM     Profile for Edwin Rommel   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Herr BodyBag

We spoke about zhis a long time ago- it is obvious zhat ze game engine is baised towards a Tommy/AMI victory- and those verrücktes "help is on it's way" extra squads mit ze compass stuck on 0° just means that you are home alone (AGAIN!).

Danke
E.R.


Posts: 4399 | From: Dusty Oasis, Nord Afrika | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-10-1999 07:42 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bodybag
That is a problem with the Alt-N commands, primarily with escort missions. If you simply use time acceleration, you will get proper extrasquads. At Freijagds, you should probably get them anyway.
If you're flying an escort mission, you could fix this problem, but it'll be a bit more complicated. First, let your autopilot take over(or fly yourself, after the directions from Bodenkontrolle). You will meet the extrasquads, but not the bombers. You and the extrasquads will then meet british fighters, and you start to fight. Sometime during the fight, you should get the message "Happy to see you" from the bombers, though you can't see them. When things have calmed down(all tommies heading for home), hit Alt-N. You will be sent to the bombers, and the tommies will have returned home, if you did a proper job. If they still have their morale, they may attempt an attack, but rarely with more than one or two squadrons. Anyway, you don't face the 1 Staffel vs 12 Squadrons problem.

(Oh, I never use the Alt-N command. Much better to fly yourself, so you'll gain the altitude advantage. As an added bonus, the enemy squadron will usually already be split up by attacks from your extrasquads.)

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-10-1999 07:46 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
And another thing, Bodybag.
There DOES exist a fix called "morepilots" which fixes the 10manstaffel-problem. Get it, run it, and you'll have some 20 pilots and 40 planes, more than enough for a proper Staffel.

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
MajorLee
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posted 12-11-1999 10:27 PM     Profile for MajorLee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Opa; was ist das "morepilots"....? eine .ini file line to add? Oder Was?
Major Lee.

Posts: 1374 | From: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-12-1999 05:59 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
No, it's a tweaked campaign 1940-file. You just copy it over the old one, and you have a complete staffel.

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG5_WrangleWolf
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posted 12-13-1999 02:18 AM     Profile for JG5_WrangleWolf   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
S! Herr Opa

Where to find this fix called "morepilots"??

WWolf


Posts: 54 | From: Cunit, Tarragona (Spain) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-13-1999 06:51 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Sure someone here has it. Gimme your e-mail-adress, and I'll send it over.

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Capitan Manduca
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posted 12-13-1999 07:29 AM     Profile for Capitan Manduca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I'm interested in the "More Pilots" fix. if you know where to find it, please let me know.

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"Roll over, spin round and come in behind them. Move to their blindsides and firing again"
Iron Maiden - Aces High


Posts: 888 | From: Madrid, España | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-13-1999 08:46 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
gimme your mail-adress, captain, and I'll send it over.

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Capitan Manduca
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posted 12-13-1999 09:06 AM     Profile for Capitan Manduca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
[email protected]

Thankx.

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"Roll over, spin round and come in behind them. Move to their blindsides and firing again"
Iron Maiden - Aces High


Posts: 888 | From: Madrid, España | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG5_WrangleWolf
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posted 12-13-1999 09:28 AM     Profile for JG5_WrangleWolf   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
[email protected]

Thank you very much, herr Opa

WWolf


Posts: 54 | From: Cunit, Tarragona (Spain) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
BodyBag
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posted 12-13-1999 12:02 PM     Profile for BodyBag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Der Opa,

I never use Alt-N, I only use time acc. so that is not true.
It makes no difference if it's escort or sweep, - the other fighters are of no use and they all go north.

Please send me the "more pilots fix" at:
[email protected]

Thanks.


Posts: 19 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-13-1999 12:25 PM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Ach...ze danish friend... Well, we can't get along with the swedes anymore...not after that Telaris thing

Now, you're not mixing the extrasquads up with reinforcements? Extrasquads start at the same time as you, and WILL go to the target area. Reinforcements are the ones you call for, and they WILL miss.

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JWC
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posted 12-14-1999 09:01 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Opa, please send me that "morepilots" thing too!
S!
[email protected]

Posts: 1633 | From: College Station, Texas, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JWC
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posted 12-16-1999 02:58 AM     Profile for JWC     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Files received----Thanks, Opa.
Posts: 1633 | From: College Station, Texas, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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posted 12-16-1999 12:37 PM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
You're welcome...
And that Telaris-deal broke, so we're currently in a hate-relationship with the swedes...

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Der Opa



Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
S|im
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posted 12-16-1999 01:57 PM     Profile for S|im   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
lol...


Send it to me too plz Opa

[email protected]


Posts: 122 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
BodyBag
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posted 12-17-1999 01:54 AM     Profile for BodyBag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hi Opa,

If you look at my original posting, you will see that I never said that the ExtraSquads was wrong.
I said that the German assistance via Ground Control, (what you call reinforcements) was never fixed, and were of no use.
So I guess it was YOU that got the things mixed up.

Anyway, I saw a Swedish official on TV say, that the only way that the Telaris-deal would work, was if the Danes would participate like in the SAS. Swedes and Norwegians left on their own, would only screw things up!

Cheers,

BodyBag "The Dane"


Posts: 19 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
smokin
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posted 12-17-1999 12:10 PM     Profile for smokin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hi Opa....would you please send me that file when you get time? Thanks buddy. Dave
Posts: 440 | From: U.S. of A. | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
smokin
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posted 12-17-1999 12:12 PM     Profile for smokin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
oops...sorry Opa. [email protected]
Posts: 440 | From: U.S. of A. | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
thunder.bolt
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posted 12-17-1999 08:54 PM     Profile for thunder.bolt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Greetings, Opa. Please forward the "morepilots" file (yet again). Thanks!!

thunder.bolt

[email protected]


Posts: 2 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Opa
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Member # 125

posted 12-18-1999 04:11 AM     Profile for Opa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
"When playing on the German side in BOB, the ExtraSquads only give the English side more fighters, never the German side." - Bodybag

This was the comment I was referring to.
And you may be correct about Norway and Sweden...

Anyway, I'm sending the file to you guys now, sorry for the delay, been a bit busy lately.


Posts: 710 | From: Sandnes, Rogaland, Norway | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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