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Author Topic: controller poll
bigbirdk
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posted 12-06-1999 07:14 PM     Profile for bigbirdk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I'm trying to find a more effective controller for multiplayer skirmishes.
What do you folks use/recommend?
Thanks for the input!

Posts: 68 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Schatten
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posted 12-06-1999 07:18 PM     Profile for Schatten   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
More effective controller for multiplay, here I'm assuming that you mean for communications. But we all know what assume did.

Anyhow, Roger Wilco really can't be beat, it's a freeware download that lets you use a microphone to talk in real time over the net. I use that along with a headphone/microphone combo that I picked up at Electronics Boutique for about $9.00. Not too bad an investment I don't think.

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Schattenjäger

"Der Horrido...Der Horrido..."


Posts: 2938 | From: Land of the Lost | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
bigbirdk
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posted 12-06-1999 07:44 PM     Profile for bigbirdk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Good information Schatten and thank you. Actually I was refering more to joystick or joystick and throttle combos. Any further advice?

Posts: 68 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Schatten
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posted 12-06-1999 07:52 PM     Profile for Schatten   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Ach Himmel, there I fufilled the assume Prophecy...

Well I use a MS Sidewinder Precision Pro. It gives me a stick, rudder twist and throttle all in one unit and enough buttons that I can cofigure it so I hardly ever have to touch the keyboard while I'm flying. The less time looking down at the keys and the more time looking up at what's going on is always a plus. I'd love to get the force feedback model but don't have the money for it right now. If you can swing one I'd reccomend a Sidewinder FF stick without any reservations.

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Schattenjäger

"Der Horrido...Der Horrido..."


Posts: 2938 | From: Land of the Lost | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blade
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posted 12-06-1999 08:39 PM     Profile for Blade   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Suncom Talon F15 joystick + SFS Throttle and CH Pedals. Cheap and very effective. No force feedback but works well for both Jet and prop sims. Been using this combo for about 2-3 yrs. Easy to program and with too many programable buttons to mention.

Blade


Posts: 158 | From: Nepean, Onatrio, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Karnak
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posted 12-07-1999 08:55 AM     Profile for Karnak   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I use a Thrustmaster F-22/TQS combo. If you are up to the programing, it can't be beat. I'd be willing to email my files to anyone who wants them.

Sisu


Posts: 461 | From: San Rafael, California, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG26Jabo
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posted 12-07-1999 09:58 AM     Profile for JG26Jabo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Logitech Wingman Force Feed Back stick. It has support for pedals with the updated drivers. 9 programmable buttons and great FF effects. IMHO. Now I`m talking WW2 sims, you gotta have the FFB effects.
Posts: 141 | From: Greers Ferry, Ar. USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tobiwan
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posted 12-07-1999 10:14 AM     Profile for Tobiwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I use a Saitek Cyborg 3D.
Been using it for a year now. Never given my any trouble, lovely feel, looks cool, incredible software.

This stick has all the buttons of the MS Sidewinder but with MUCH better software and MUCH MUCH MUCH better feel. This one actually feels like you can fly a plane with it....unlike the Sidewinder which is an arcade joystick.

Otherwise if you have more to spend, get a Saitek X36 Combo! I'm saving up for one.

3rd option is a Suncom SFS + Talon combo which is currently on special in the states for $75 or something....


Posts: 893 | From: Amanzimtoti, KWA-Zulu, South Africa | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Kurt Tank
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posted 12-07-1999 10:34 AM     Profile for Kurt Tank   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Must echo JG26 Jabo ... Logitech Wingman Force is AWESOME! Coupled with CH Pro Pedals and Game Commander I'm in EAW Nirvana (No, not with that Cobain dude). Before you start flaming me about Game Commander and multiplay, the soon to be released MX upgrade will make it compatible with Roger Wilco, etc. Maybe someday I'll find the time to get back into online flying but now I must try out all the ECA 2.0 aircraft. So many planes, so little time....

Gute Jagd!

Kurt


Posts: 23 | From: Birmingham, AL USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG26(P) von Vampr
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posted 12-07-1999 11:47 AM     Profile for JG26(P) von Vampr   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hello Bigbirdk ,

I just wanted to say I disagree with Tobiwan about the Saitek Cyborg 3-d(just my humble opinion Herr Tobiwan , nothin' personal :-)) . I owned one for two miserable months before I returned the p.o.s. ! Spikey views , crappy rudder controls , multiple drift problems and I could go on and on . To me , everything about this stick was sloppy . I now use the Microsoft Sidewinder Percision pro and love it . And in my opinion the software is WAY better and easier to use than the stuff that comes with the Cyborg . I do , however agree that the Cyborg had a better feel (read:heavier spring)than the Micro P.P. . It could use a heavier spring . The other nice thing about the P.P. is that it is completely digital . The Cyborg still has pots which really suck ! I have a pair of simped pedals on the way which are compatable with the P.P. , but I don't believe they will work with the Cyborg . If you want a stick thats completely digital and has more "feel" try the Micro Sidewinder FF . I also tried the Logitech Wingman FF (that Herr Jabo suggested , S!)and liked it as well . Hope this helps .

von Vampr

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Fools rush in where angels fear to tread


Posts: 33 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tobiwan
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posted 12-07-1999 02:10 PM     Profile for Tobiwan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
No offense taken at all von Vampr.

I had a Sidewinder Pro 3D (still have it, it's 3 years old, I'll admit it was durable!) and I tested a Sidewinder Presision Pro.

And I thought they both sucked! REALLY lousy unrealistic feel and too little damn travel.

I feel it is my duty to tell people not buy these things! (If you want it to say Microsoft get an Intellipoint!)

Okay I must say that 2months into having the Cyborg I changed to a DFI P5BV3+ Super7 M/B. And my Cyborg stopped working! It was drifting all over the place! And I proceeded to get VERY angry!

But, just before returning my Cyborg, I found a patch on the Saitek site with SOLVED ALL MY PROBLEMS! Can't say the rudder has given my anything but happy service in EAW (and MA, FS98, XvT) though!

So If you Cyborg gives you ANY trouble, D/L the patch!

Anyhow, thats just my piece. To each his own, eh?

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Tobiwan
"I never thought I could shoot down a german plane, but last year I proved myself wrong." -Grampa Simpson 1997


Posts: 893 | From: Amanzimtoti, KWA-Zulu, South Africa | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Leeman
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posted 12-07-1999 02:29 PM     Profile for Leeman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I have the Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro. About the only thing about the stick that I don't like is the low spring tension and the short "throw" of the stick. I like the longer throw of the CH Products F16 Combatstick but mine died on me recently and I haven't replaced it yet. The Sidewinder P.P. is a decent digital stick though. Easy to use and program.

I've also tried the Logitech Wingman Force Feedback stick and I really liked it a LOT. But, I couldn't justify the $100 for the stick because about the only game that I had that supported the F.F. effects was EAW. However, it worked GREAT in EAW. It has beautiful effects. On the downside, the stick has a rather large footprint and will eat up your deskspace. Also, my arm started to tire after using it for an hour or so (perhaps I'm a whimp). I suppose that's a testament to how good the F.F. is, though.

My next control setup is likely to be a new USB version of the CH F16 Combatstick but not until they also release their USB Rudder Pedals to go along with it because the analog CH Pedals I have now won't work with their USB digital F16 Combatstick. My pedals DID work with the digital Logitech Wingman F.F. stick however. Hmmm, odd ain't it?

I've heard/read mixed reviews on the Saitek equipment and those views are also posted here as well. Some folks love it, some don't. I came close to buying a Saitek stick myself once until I read a rather disparaging review about the stick in a gaming magazine.

If you have the dough, many hard-core simmers love the Thrustmaster brand of sticks, rudders and throttles. A little too pricey for my blood though.

Regardless of what stick you buy though, you can't go wrong in also purchasing a copy of Game Commander. This is voice recognition software and it works great. Simply type in a word (like, "flaps"), assign a key to the word, and say the word into a mic and you're good to go. It works great for sims where taking your eyes off the screen for even an instant can mean the difference between life and death.


Posts: 36 | From: Seekonk, Ma. USA | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Pharaoh
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posted 12-07-1999 03:28 PM     Profile for Pharaoh   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Have been using the Sidewinder PP for some time now and have had no complaints; especially liking the aspect of the twist handle for rudder (even though it still seems strange after having flown real aircraft).

An unexpected $100 came in the mail today and have long been slavering for a FF stick.

Was going to get the Sidewinder PP FF, but after reading your inputs, am now undecided between the Sidewinder and the Logitech Wingman FF. I do like the 8-way HAT on the PP. Can you tell me the pros and cons between the two sticks? Appreciate it.

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"A mind is like a parachute; it only functions when it is open." Sir Lewis Dewar


Posts: 2180 | From: Harrison, AR,USA | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Airbuddha
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posted 12-07-1999 03:52 PM     Profile for Airbuddha   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
bigbirdk,

If money is an object (ain't it always?), then Microsoft is good stuff with minimal headaches and a very long life.

If sims are a major part of your entertainment, then get a HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick) setup.

You could be sorry for not spending enough money on your controllers, but you'll never be sorry for the money spent on a high end setup.

Here's a thread from a while back that had a lot of input regarding sticks and pedals.

Regards, Airbuddha
Sticks and Pedals


Posts: 430 | From: Slipper Gut, WV, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
bigbirdk
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posted 12-07-1999 07:28 PM     Profile for bigbirdk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks to all who responded and continue to respond to my question. (The URL'S were execellent Airbuddha!) Its great to get so much on-target information so easily. I've been scouring the web but I learned more here in much less time!
Posts: 68 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Papa Hotel
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Member # 996

posted 12-08-1999 06:16 AM     Profile for Papa Hotel     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I have a question about the MS SPP stick. I have the USB version and I'm very happy with the stick. I had to change some of the settings in the .ini file (did that with EAWcontrolv1.6, very nice tool) before I was completely satisfied though. Up until now I only tried to make a profile for EAW with the MS software once, but couldn't get it to work. (And yes, I did check the Activate profile box) Since then I haven't had time to try again, since the defence of Great Britain used all my available time So I have the buttons programmed in EAW itself. Which is OK, but it won't allow you to use the shift button on the stick as a shift button. Only as a regular button. My question is, what can the problem be if an activated profile doesn't work when I start up EAW??? And do I have to choose throttle and rudder in EAW in order to be able to use them as such???
Thanx in advance.

Papa Hotel over&out

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"If it ain't much it ain't Dutch" :)


Posts: 80 | From: Groningen, The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Rudy G
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Member # 113

posted 12-08-1999 07:19 PM     Profile for Rudy G   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Papa Hotel
unless you changed the mapping in the ini for throttle and rudder its pretty much automatically recognized.Are they grayed out in the EAW configuration area? As for your shift button I think its a bug in usb.Vonn Gunn had a similar problem see url
http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/000291.html

FWIW
Rudy G


Posts: 94 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Bigshot
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Member # 4

posted 12-08-1999 07:36 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
If you're not using a MS Sidewinder Forcefeedback with EAW, you're missing have the game. This stick is incredible. EAW forcefeedback must have been written for this stick. You feel everything. I don't need the guages or hud. I can tell what the aircraft is doing by the incredible feel of the stick. You feel torque, gun kick, hits on your plane, the ground on landing, stalls and buffeting are very well done, the faster you go the tighter the stick gets and the slower you go the loser the stick gets. You feel the air going over the ailerons and the most incredible feel is a close miss when you zip through the slip stream of another aircraft. WOW. What a rush that is. I'd highly recommend this stick for EAW. It's got the twist rudder and throttle and all the buttons you need. Only thing it doesn't have is a connection for other sphericals like rudder pedals. I've had mine now for two years and the last 10 months of EAW, I've beat the hell out of it. It keeps going, and going, and going and going like that there pink bunny. What's his name. Anyway, when I put my P38 in a dive and the control surfaces compress, it's almost impossible to move the damn stick. At 420 mph, I lifted the stick off the desk which is hard to do with this one cause it's heavy. When I start the engines on the runway, the vibrations in the stick are awesome. Slip stream is the best though.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
mane_raptor
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Member # 845

posted 12-08-1999 08:49 PM     Profile for mane_raptor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Bigshot,

You're pitch nearly made me run out and buy one, but then I was brought up short by the fact that you have no way of hooking pedals up to this puppy. Sorry, that's a no-no. I mean after all what are we to do with our feet? Stick'm out the cockpit window? I think doing that, maybe in some cases, outlawed by the Geneva Convention.

Being a solid upstanding member of my community, I stay with the old tried and true (wouldn't want anything radical like force feed, what would folks say?), a F16FLCS/TQS/Elite setup. How much more rock-ribbed Republican can it get?

Now before I get too badly crisped in the replies to come, let me say, that I have always used TM products and have found that with some care they last (and when they do go bad I can usually fix them myself).

Working with this rig (programming) I find to be very easy and I can create stick files for any new game I might acquire in a few minutes. Of course it may take me several months of tweaking to get them just so.

I like the feel and the way the stick and throttle handles. BUT...

If TM (actually that French Company whose name begins with G) would get off there duffs and come out with a FF, digital vesion of this setup, then the only time you would see this rig would be if folks drop by (Must hide the family secret dear, the Henderson's are coming over tonight).

So as long as what you have works (how true for many things) and you like it. What the hey???

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Check six & aim for the cockpit.


Posts: 6145 | From: Maine USA, Proud Member of ELF (EAW Liberation Front) | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
MajorLee
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Member # 386

posted 12-08-1999 09:47 PM     Profile for MajorLee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I really like my Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback stick. The feel of the stick moving with attitude changes, and fighting back, and going slack after a stall is awesome. Having a stick provide resistance to a twitchy hand really helps smooth out your aim. I wouldn't fly without it. For EAW, set this stick in the game configuration, or .ini file. Do not use the software setup included with the stick. If you want my stick settings, email me and I will send them to you.

Major Lee


Posts: 1374 | From: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Joppe Karhunen
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Member # 1194

posted 12-09-1999 01:22 AM     Profile for Joppe Karhunen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Whoever wants the best out of EAW should definietly get Force Feedback stick, whichever feels right for you.

I think many of fliers who complain that EAW Online flight models are difficult do not have FF stick, since only using one you get response if you (for example in turning) draw stick too much back. In my Bf109 chasing Spits I feel when its time to disengage to get energy back. This is before any warning sign on monitor and has saved my a** quite a few times.

Othewise I agree with excellent reply of Bigshot, mine Sidewinder is also doing its job well =-).

_____________
Joppe K


Posts: 7 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Der Fremd Fokker
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Member # 806

posted 12-09-1999 01:40 AM     Profile for Der Fremd Fokker   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post

I use der Thrustmaster F-22 Pro & TQS. They're replicas of der HOTAS setup in F-16s.
Two-stage trigger - squeeze a little = MGs, squeeze more = Kanones.
6x conventional buttons
4x 8-way hat switches
1x 4-way hat switch
2x 3-way switches - flaps und targeting mode eg. friendly,enemy,ground.
2x rotating knobs - I use one fur der rudder.
mouse cursor - handy fur scrolling around der cockpit view.
All available without shifting your grip on der sticks. Any axis can be analogue or digital. Macros und toggles can be used on any button or switch.

Posts: 107 | From: Perth, Western Australia | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG26Jabo
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Member # 160

posted 12-09-1999 10:08 AM     Profile for JG26Jabo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
The only factor for me not buying the Microsoft FFB stick was the lack of rudder pedal support, otherwise I`m sure its a fine stick. BTW, there is a set of pedals by a German manu. that somehow works with the MS stick, seen `em on combatsim awhile back
Posts: 141 | From: Greers Ferry, Ar. USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG26(P) von Vampr
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Member # 1198

posted 12-09-1999 11:33 AM     Profile for JG26(P) von Vampr   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
S! Herr Jabo ,

I believe the pedals you are referring to are called " Simped Pedals " . I have a pair of the these on the way ! ;-) They have a interface for the Mirco. Sidewinder P.P. and the Sidewinder F.F. . See them @ : http:/home.t-online.de/home/d-hofmann/

von Vampr

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Fools rush in where angels fear to tread


Posts: 33 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
JG26(P) von Vampr
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Member # 1198

posted 12-09-1999 11:44 AM     Profile for JG26(P) von Vampr   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Sorry guys forgot a / DUH ! Try :

http://home.t-online.de/home/d-hofmann/

von Vampr

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Fools rush in where angels fear to tread


Posts: 33 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged

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