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Author Topic: Virtual flight teacher wanted
WildeSau
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Member # 2151

posted 02-09-2000 02:48 PM     Profile for WildeSau   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi hunters,

Since a few months I am playing WWII flight sims and really love it. I think that many of you first bought their PCs and afterwards the sims. I had first two flight sims and bought my PC just because of them...

My problem is that still after this time of flying WWII flight sims, I am still a rookie pilot. I read many good training articles showing you many important battle maneuvers and tricks. On the paper it looks always clear and easy. I also understand why should do a specific maneuver and a specific time etc. but another thing is to do all these things in a game.

I think that I need someone who shows me how some maneuvers work and who can check what I am doing wrong etc.

Is there any possibility to have some virtual training lessons?

Will not be able to pay you what a real flight teacher is earning per hour. But if someone is interested just let me know what your time (your personal time and the time for being online) and your nerves are worth.

The games I am flying are EAW and WWII Fighters.

Thanks.

Michael the "WildeSau"


Posts: 61 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Greif
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Member # 977

posted 02-09-2000 04:25 PM     Profile for Greif   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hallo Michael,

wie wär's wenn Du einfach ein bißchen in Janes Combat Net herumfliegst? Ein menschlicher Gegner tut schon manchmal andere Sachen als die KI in WW2F.
Probiers aus!

Der Gegner kommt aus der Sonne....

Marc-David (Greif)


Posts: 41 | From: Stuttgart, Deutschland | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Totengräbe
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Member # 2679

posted 02-09-2000 08:19 PM     Profile for Totengräbe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi,
You could find trainers in Air Warrior and WarBirds ( you must pay to play and get lessons ).
A cool tip: WWII combat is the same thing than WWI but while in WWI you make horizontal maneuvers all the time; in WWII you always must make vertical maneuvers. Is it a endless looping fight? yes! . Keep it simple! Barrel rool atack, lag persuit, etc, they are all looping variations. If you have more Energy to go heighter, you win.
If you could, buy Flight Unlimited 1, in this game there is an aerobatic curse.
And try this book: "Advanced Aerobatics" by Geza Szurovy, Michael Goulian, Mike Goulian.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0070633029/o/qid=950151177/sr=8-1/102-85208 06-6755252

Ops, CFS has a little BFM and ACM curse too


Horrido

[This message has been edited by Totengräbe (edited 02-09-2000).]


Posts: 4 | From: | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
[email protected]
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Member # 2932

posted 02-10-2000 07:24 AM     Profile for Indianer@6   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hallo Michael
Ich gehe davon aus das Du dein "Flugzeug" zumindest halbwegs beherrschst und die grundlegenden Flugmanöver nachfliegen kannst.
Luftkampf im eigentlichen Sinn kann man nicht lernen denn jeder Kampf basiert auf einer eigenen Ausgangslage und Dynamik.Aber es gibt gewisse Spielregeln die man beachten
sollte.

1.Sei nie überheblich und unterschätze Deinen Gegner

2.Beobachte ständig den Luftraum um Dich und vermeide jede Überraschung

3.Wenn möglich bringe Dich in eine vorteilhafte Position,wenn dies nicht möglich ist fliege nie länger als 3-4 Sekunden in derselben Richtung

4.Horizontale Manöver sind vertikalen vorzuziehen (Beim Abschwung verlierst Du Höhe die sehr kostbar ist,beim Looping hängst Du im Scheitelpunkt wie eine reife Pflaume)

5.Lerne den richtigen Vorhalt zu wählen und schiesse in der Regel nur wenn Du weisst das du ganz sicher triffst

6.Last but not least,bei allem Mut,halte Dir immer einen Ausweg zur Flucht offen.


Posts: 11 | From: Erfurt,Germany | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
WildeSau
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Member # 2151

posted 02-10-2000 02:48 PM     Profile for WildeSau   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi hunters,

Thanks for your answers.

I already was for some fights on Janes Combat Net. But the most other flyers are really good and you don't have a long time to live and you are just a drone for them.

I am sure you become better and better but it takes a long time this way. But if there is someone who is showing you what to do and who is checking what you are doing to give tips and hints, the whole thing becomes a litte bit easier.

As said I know from different maneuvers how they work and when they should be flown from different articles. But to execute them correctly in a fight at the right time is something else.

Totengräbe, my English is not that good and I don't know all these flight maneuver names - can you describe what the maneuvers "Barrell rool attack" and "lag pursuite" are?

I also had to learn that following the Janes WWII Fighters AI into their turns and loopings isn't always very successfull. The AI turns often much faster and tighter than you can - no matter at what speed you are flying or in which angle you are.

Another problem is the difference of flight procedure the same plane models have in the different flight sims. Of course the most maneuvers can be used in all the sims but you often have to use different action in the different sims the get the same result. Makes things not easier.

I see that I have to learn much more and that it will use some time to not be anymore a rookie pilot.

But on the other side it's positive that you need a little bit more than just some days to really be master of a game.

Michael the "WildeSau"


Posts: 61 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Murph
unregistered

posted 02-10-2000 06:53 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Michael;
Go to the website called Simhq.com.Look in the archives there for a series of articles by Andy Bush on air combat manuvers called"It's All a Matter of Perspective" Mr. Bush used to teach ACM to US Air Force pilots,and really knows his stuff.

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Swervin Irvin
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posted 02-10-2000 08:17 PM     Profile for Swervin Irvin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi, Wildesau, perhaps some techniques that have helped me a lot in EAW might work for you. I like to fight with the Tempest V because it is very fast, turns well, can fly slow, and has very good firepower with four 20mm cannons.

First, it's hard to kill em if you can't see em. I have trouble with padlocks, so I use the targeting data in EAW a lot. I like the little square, the little X pointer at the screen edge, and the speed, altitude, and heading data in the lower right corner.

Try to get good at following that little X around to your enemy after you "Target Next Enemy" or "Target Closest Enemy".

I have a CH F16 Combat Stick, and have mapped the buttons in Game Options/Controls/Advanced so that my pinkie finger(smallest) rests on a button low down on the stick, and gives me the straight ahead view.

My thumb rests higher up on a button that gives forward/up view.

Moving my thumb up to a higher button gives me the straight up view.

In this way, as the remapped button positions move higher up the stick, my views from the cockpit move higher up. This higher button, higher view relationship makes it easy for me to remember, so I can rapidly shift my view without losing my orientation.

Those German planes can really dart around in any dirction once your get close enough for the kill, and quick, coherent view mapping really has helped me.

Second, try to keep your speed up and use the vertical by looping straight up and over the top, or at 45 degree inclinations when the enemy is very close, but not traveling in the same direction you are.

The Tempest gains speed rapidly when diving, use the loops give you a tighter turn, and then you can dive on them from above, using the energy advantage and tighter turn gained by taking it more vertical than your opponent.

If you are losing too much speed in the vertical or 45 degree inclination loops, try relaxing the back pressure on the stick, don't yank it too fast, and don't pull it all the way back for the whole loop.

When I am pulling back on the stick, I use the straight up view a lot. This lets you track the target or little indicator X from right over your head, and as you bring your nose around to bear on him, you can make small or large corrections and keep your centerline on him for the fastest solution to get your guns on him.

Third, timing for me is the critical element of fighting. Using the vertical you may often find yourself in head on merges with the target, try begining your loops or hard turns into the target a bit earlier than your instincts tell you.

If you can be vertical by the time he is passing you, you can often gain the advantage quicker.

Last, for defense, try to always leave yoursef enough altitude to dive straight for the ground, gain speed, level off close to the Earth, head off a ways,perhaps with a shallow climb, but remember that "speed is life," then loop back for a merge.

Good Luck, Good Hunting!

------------------
Take it vertical.. dive.. ram your talons deep.


Posts: 497 | From: Redmond, Wa. | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
WildeSau
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Member # 2151

posted 02-11-2000 02:18 PM     Profile for WildeSau   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi guys,

Many thanks for all your help.

There are really some good articles on simhq.com.

Wish you all many new kill markings for your planes.

Michael the "WildeSau"


Posts: 61 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Phil47
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Member # 658

posted 02-13-2000 06:56 AM     Profile for Phil47     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wildesau,
Not wishing to sound like the patronising Father figure and at risk of many WW11 simmers disagreeing with me I think that you really should start to learn with a good civilian sim....Fly.....MS2000 pro.....FU111.There are lots of very good tutorials in MS2000pro with regards to flight dynamics etc.
By all means have fun with your combat sims, but don't worry too much if you are initialy blown out of the sky.
Read some of the posts by REAL pilots in the civilian forum. Bball for instance..A real 747 pilot.
Sims are NOT the real thing and there are a great deal of sim fighter jocks around who think they are air aces...Not so I'm afraid. Put them in a real F16 and they would bend it into the runway in minutes.
If you really enjoy flying then first learn the basics and rules, as best as one can in a sim.
In the real world they do not hand out $20 million dollar aircraft to novices. Everyone starts on high wing trainers.
A great deal with regards to combat tactics comes from sheer gut reaction and EXPERIENCE.
Knowing what your adversary will do next and if he does this move how do you counteract it etc.
Obviously in a sim you are limited as you cannot use periphrial vision. Something a real fighter pilot would use 100% of the time.Keeping his eye on the bandit at all times.It's all very good knowing all the moves, but as in the real world, It's knowing when or when NOT to do them.There is that old experience thing again.
In the real world I am a profesional guitarist and guitar teacher ( Not a pilot)
But I see the same similarity time and time again.... The student gets the all latest singing and dancing guitar rig and is dissapointed when on his third lesson we are not working on a Jimmy Hendrix guitar solo.
These guys, like pilots have been doing what they do for years and it just rolls off the top of their heads.. It's all instinct reactions...You have to have gone beyond the point of knowing which finger goes where.

Anyway enough of my ramblings.. I hope you really enjoy your future with flight sims and don't get too put out about the combat moves... Just keep plodding on and it won't be too long before you'll be on somebodys six and sending them spinning into the deck.In the meantime, try a good civilian sim I think you will find it very helpful.
Phil.......UK
(Grass is natures way of saying Hi! )

PS... Where are you from in Switzerland. I have lots of relations over there...Beautiful country and lovely to fly in in MS2000 pro.


Posts: 340 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Slapphead
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Member # 59

posted 02-13-2000 11:43 AM     Profile for Slapphead   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
WildeSau,

I sugest,that you join a virtual Squadron.

You will find that they usually meet up at least once a week for training duties;and being part of a squad means that all of your collegues will bend over backwards to help you out.

Another point is whilst flying online(like say on the Zone or Kali),you get to meet up with them a lot,thus lessons will be learned.

I have join a squad not that long ago,when I was just coming to terms with spin recovery...
this is the path I took ,and I highly recommend it.It willl cost you nothing but time

I fly EAW and have joined the 609th.
There are many squads to chose from,just have a little browse around to find one that suites your side(some fly German planes,others fly British and American).

This is my squadrons address:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6846/


Good luck mate


S!


Posts: 1148 | From: london/uk | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Greif
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Member # 977

posted 02-14-2000 01:31 AM     Profile for Greif   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Michael, Hi Phil47,

Phil, You are absolutely right. As we are colleagues (I'm professional violist and leader of our church choir & band) I can tell you Michael, that exercise is the thing that will bring you forewards. Everyday 10 min. playing and 10 min thinking about what you do and how to do brings amazing advance -in music and simflying. But discipline and endurance are two things that are basic requirements, to love what you do is very important, too. So take your time, don't disappoint yourself ("I can't do it, I'll never be able to do it, I won't do it anymore, I'll do it never again - the end of many young and ambitious musicians) and you will see that you'll make it.

By the way Phil, I have some questions about guitar playing... If you want to get into contact, send an Email to the link indicated in my profile. Keep on playing!

Marc-David (Greif)

[This message has been edited by Greif (edited 02-14-2000).]


Posts: 41 | From: Stuttgart, Deutschland | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Murph
unregistered

posted 02-14-2000 07:03 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm glad to see I'm not the only musican around here(Irish Fiddler and Singer)
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Greif
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posted 02-15-2000 01:58 AM     Profile for Greif   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Murph

check out the Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 "Symphony of the Air" by Franz Liszt!
Good connection between flying & music. Seems we should start a topic about simflying musicians

CuiH

Marc-David (Greif)


Posts: 41 | From: Stuttgart, Deutschland | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
WildeSau
Member
Member # 2151

posted 02-15-2000 01:49 PM     Profile for WildeSau   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi hunters,

Thanks for all your support.

I know that it takes me some more time to really learn fly in the virtual skies - but as already said that's something why I love these flight sims - you can spend much more time with them than with many other games which you stop playing after a week because you know every little bit of them.

A civil flight sim isn't what I am looking for. The really base flight maneuvers are not the problem for me - and I think for learning them a civil flight sim is OK. I have more problems with the advanced maneuvers which you can better fly in the planes which were made for them.

But I don't give up.

Phil, I am living in a small town called Weinfelden - near by the German boarder and the Bodensee (biggest lake in Switzerland). This part of Switzerland is called Thurgau.

Nice to see that you like Switzerland. I think it's a beautyfull country which is having very different landscapes on a small space.

Can imagine that flying over Switzerland in MS Flight Simulator is fun because of all the mountains.

Slapphead - I think before joining a virtual squadron I have to become a little bit better. Otherwise I am nothing than a drone for them. But it's a good tip for the future - thanks.

It's nice to see that really very different people with different backgrounds (musicians, school boys, teachers, real pilots, office drudges like me, etc.) are playing flight sims.

Michael the "WildeSau"


Posts: 61 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Slapphead
Member
Member # 59

posted 02-16-2000 08:31 AM     Profile for Slapphead   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
WildeSau,

Quite the contrary,you will not be treated as a Drone(I thought that toat first).
You will be treated with care and attention.
One of the aims of a squadron is to teach all the skills required so that you can be become a strong fighting force as a whole.

I laid of joining one for the same reasons that you have mentioned,and if I was to do it all over again;I would have joined up ASAP.

Good luck in your quest.


S!


Posts: 1148 | From: london/uk | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Phil47
Member
Member # 658

posted 02-16-2000 10:53 AM     Profile for Phil47     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Grief,
Hi..Sorry for delay in answering. Have not been in props for a few days.
Be delighted to talk guitar. I'll look up your E mail address after posting this.

Murph. Hey another musician. Us three will have to start our own squadron.
I usually roll into combat with The ride of the Valkeries blasting out of the subwoofer.
A bit old hat I know but sure does set the mood, Ha Ha .

What sims do you two guys fly in?......The only WW11 sim I have is MS combat at present.

WildeSau.....My relations are in and around Lausanne and Bern. (My Mother was Swiss)
I have the old family coat of arms here in England.. They were once the Counts of Rougemont circa 1477...And more recently from the family Cottier.......Lovely country.
Phil..


Posts: 340 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Phil47
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Member # 658

posted 02-16-2000 11:01 AM     Profile for Phil47     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Grief,
Can't see your Email address anywhere?
phil.

Posts: 340 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Greif
Member
Member # 977

posted 02-16-2000 01:50 PM     Profile for Greif   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Phil,

Sorry, I didn't put my Email adress into my profile, so here it is: [email protected]

Cu,

Marc-David (G r E I f- not grief!!!) A "Greif" is a special "being" in greek mythology, a sort of crossover consisting of the body of an eagle and the head of a lion. Anyway, while chatting in Janes Combat Net, many pilots had "fun" reading my name


Posts: 41 | From: Stuttgart, Deutschland | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Phil47
Member
Member # 658

posted 02-17-2000 04:26 PM     Profile for Phil47     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Greif,
Oooops, sorry about the spelling. hey I'll Email you on the weekend.
Phil.

Posts: 340 | From: | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged

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