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Author Topic: What's The Best Currently Available Prop Fighter sim...?
Dobie
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Member # 2047

posted 01-18-2000 12:13 PM     Profile for Dobie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey there sim. ppl.

I'm a huge fan of Flight III, simply because it offers the best flight model (to my knowledge), air dynamics, physics simulation, attention to little details, like sfx, graphics etc.
I know they have one in the works right now but what's currently available that is fun, detailed, has great physics, framerate, etc?
I just got MS-Combat Simulator and it just doesn't have the right physics, it feels like you are going 5 MPH and u already take off. URG. HELP!

Thanks for any suggestions,


- Pete


Posts: 1 | From: Austin, TX, USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Irie1
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posted 01-18-2000 12:40 PM     Profile for Irie1   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey dobie

I think the consensus would say the European Air war is the best prop fighter sim currently available, even though its a year old. Ive read discussions on the flight model and i think that some think theyre good and some dont. I just bought the sim and am having a great time with it...also theyre are a TON of updates, skins, and anyother type of mod you could want!


Posts: 37 | From: Berkeley, CA, US | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Murph
unregistered

posted 01-18-2000 02:23 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Loaded question-it depends on what you want.I'm a fan of Jane's WW2 fighters because of the 3d cockpit enviornment,smart and deadly AI,first rate ground attack,and terrain modeling which does'nt look real great but does a better job of conveying a sense of movement at low altitudes than the competition.Also I like the fact that it allows the user to create missions and campaigns,among many other things.Try downloading the demo and see what you think.
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John
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posted 01-18-2000 02:28 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I fly most of them, EAW, FSSDOE, WWII Fighters. However, none of them can match the FU3 feeling of flight. The Mustang in FU3 has excellent flight behaviour. As I have been discovering over the past few days. My opinion is that of the three above (I don't like Microsoft), FSSDOE is the best. At least it is the one I keep coming back to. Especially with the add-ons. If you get FSSDOE make sure you down-load the Control, the plane pack 5.2 and also the cockpit reflections for the Spit and Lightning. The cockpit reflections can be found on this site.
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SneakyPete
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posted 01-18-2000 02:35 PM     Profile for SneakyPete   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Going on the basis of aerial prop fighter combat I would have to say Janes WW2 Fighters. No other sim that I have tried that has come out in the last year comes close to the feeling of immersion that Jane's product gives you. Air to Air and Air to ground are both endlessly enjoyable. Using the included mission builder I have really enjoyed playing my own missions over and over with friends over the internet (although the network coding has some flaws). Beautiful graphics, incredible explosions, clouds, skies, fire, and good flight modeling (not completely accurate but fun) set Janes apart. Also one of my pet peeves of most prop sims but is the exact opposite in Janes, is not being able to easily see where your tracers are going at any resolution. In some sims, especially MSCFS your tracers are just a little pixel the eye can barely make out. In every aviation film clip I have ever seen tracers are highly visible streaks. Of course every one looks for different things in a sim, just thought I would give my opinion since you asked.
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Slapphead
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posted 01-18-2000 03:54 PM     Profile for Slapphead   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Dobie,

I am hocked line and sink on EAW.
the sim out of the box is quite a let down...but with the new patch(ver1.2)and the miriad of add-ons,the sim is totaly transformed into a classic

It took me ages to fly the planes without stalling/spinning them...

This sim is a must buy(can pick up cheap to).

The EAW community is extremely strong and helpfull.
Also,the online aspect is great to!

Just pop into the EAW forum and post away at your hearts content !

Ps:Tally ho and good luck mate!

(


Posts: 1148 | From: london/uk | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
SPOT
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posted 01-18-2000 04:45 PM     Profile for SPOT   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have EAW and Janes WWIIF -they are both good sims. But you said prop sims soooo lets not forget the WWI prop sim Red Baron 3D - or you can pick up Red Baron II for next to nothing and get the 3D patch and you have - SURPRISE! Red Baron 3D. I never felt I didn't get my moneys worth from any of these 3.
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Lucky_1
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posted 01-18-2000 08:44 PM     Profile for Lucky_1   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You can't go wrong with Jane's WWII fighters or EAW! Both classics in their own rights.

------------------
Two beers, or not two beers. There is no question.


Posts: 635 | From: Knoxville, TN. | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Slingshot
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posted 01-19-2000 12:24 AM     Profile for Slingshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
For me, eaw is my first choice, ww2 fighters is a close second.
I don't have SDOE so I can't give an opinion (but I heard its getting better - maybe the best of the rest now) and MSCFS is just too bland for my taste.

Once again, IMHO.


Posts: 94 | From: NYC | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Sv
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posted 01-19-2000 06:02 AM     Profile for Sv   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Personaly I like SDOE best, but it depends on what you like. If you like the feeling of a "real" plane (inertia, momentum, etc.) - or real 3D cockpits (not 2D or primitive 3D) - then SDOE is for you! Also the new user created FMs are a blast! Also flyable bombers, etc. - new user planes... Be warned though, you can not fly as many planes at one time as EAW, and the terrian, though it looks much better IMO, is smalller in size. There is also no dynamic camp. or anything, but user created missions and squadron based on-line missions make up for this IMO.

For more info, visit the SDOE forum:
http://www.fightersquadron.com/cgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro

Or maybe I just love SDOE 'cause I have so much fun making planes and stuff for it!

-Sv


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JT
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posted 01-19-2000 11:36 AM     Profile for JT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
In no particular order, here are some positive things about certain prop sims...

EAW: Lot's of planes in the air. Has a campaign mode.

SDOE: You get to fly bombers! You can also man different positions on bombers. Also, there are more than a few user addon out there... planes, paint schemes, ground objects... you name it. Very good sense of velocity too!

Jane's: Breathtakingly accurate 3d cockpits. The ground attack is great too. You can even see soldiers running around.

MSCFS: Fun take offs and landings. Large theatre. Tons of user addons.... many are very high quality.

Warbirds: Massive multiplayer. Accurate flight modeling. Very good sense of velocity.

Aces High: {same as Warbirds}

[This message has been edited by JT (edited 01-19-2000).]


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JT
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posted 01-19-2000 11:45 AM     Profile for JT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
>I just got MS-Combat Simulator and it just doesn't have the right physics, it feels like you are going 5 MPH and u already take off. URG. HELP!

Tell me about it. I can't stand CFS unless I set the simulation rate is set to 2x. People have told me that Microsoft had to slow the simulation down because it gets such abominably low frame rates. I am not going to buy another MS flight sim until they quit using that damn FS 98 engine.

I should also mention that you probably won't like EAW if you're looking for sense of speed. Although the speeds represented in EAW are realistic, the ground texture is so stretched that you feel like you're going very slow when you're down on the deck.


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Bigshot
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posted 01-19-2000 06:31 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't know about that. Last time I rode in a Cessna, it felt just like EAW. Ground moves by just about right. If you want to go mach 1; get a jet sim. If you want to fly and fight up close and personal, I'd recommend 1st: EAW; 2nd: CFS; and 3rd: WWII fighters. 2nd and 3rd are also both good. FSSDOE from what I've heard is better than it originally was; but not for me.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Kraut
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posted 01-19-2000 06:47 PM     Profile for Kraut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If one wants a real challenge in a campaign mode, try CFS with all settings on max. No reflies & only one life. Try this with all the sims that are mentioned above & see how far one gets with each. I mean from starting, flap settings, take offs, combat, return to base & land safely.
I really like EAW & this is the one I play most but CFS is more of a challenge than all of them. IMHO! Only WBs or AH has a more "challenging" FM or weapons performance.
FWIW,
Good Hunting!

Posts: 754 | From: Kitchener Ont. Can. | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
JT
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posted 01-19-2000 06:52 PM     Profile for JT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
>Last time I rode in a Cessna, it felt just like EAW.

That's right... a P51 doing 400 mph in EAW feels like it's going about as fast a Cessna doing 150 mph in real life.


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Bigshot
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posted 01-19-2000 07:31 PM     Profile for Bigshot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Apparently, I didn't make myself clear. I was talking about a cessna at 150mph vs an EAW plane at the same speed. Go get in a cessna and try it if you don't agree. Once in the air everything on the ground moves slow. Buzz a hanger in EAW. It don't feel slow then. I think they're right on speed wise in EAW and CFS.
Posts: 1291 | From: Suttons Bay, MI, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
kbedford
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posted 01-20-2000 01:54 AM     Profile for kbedford   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I spent last night (wife & kids out!) on CFS & EAW and for air-to-air combat EAW is far the best (better than anything but Mig Alley I think) - the enemy AI is sufficiently intelligent to feel real (if unimaginative) and there is a 3D feel to the whole affair.
CFS A2A is bland and frustrating by comparison, the AI planes wander around like bees on a hot day and are an annoyance not a challenge.
On the other hand I was building a mission in CFS, set in Poland around a snow covered lake & dam, the enemy planes were Lavochins and Stormoviks (I think I will change sides).
Next step is to place a multitude of ground-units exactly where I want them & let them all fight it out. Try that in EAW!
Best advice - get em all....
----
Cheers,
Keith

Posts: 71 | From: Hemel Hempstead,UK | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Kraut
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posted 01-20-2000 06:04 AM     Profile for Kraut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes, getting my bum chewed up by an enemy AI is a real "annoyance". Getting it not chewed up is a challenge. Turn everthing to max, like in difficult, & tell me about the landings & take offs. Do 5 in a row in each & tell me the results. The AI planes & weapons in CFS are governed the same way yours is. This is in flight & damaged modelling. Not as emersive as EAW but, IMO, not the dog that I hear/see a lot on these posts.
FWIW,
Good Hunting!

Posts: 754 | From: Kitchener Ont. Can. | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
JT
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posted 01-20-2000 07:56 AM     Profile for JT     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bigshot,

Like I said, the speeds in EAW are realistic. I'm only saying that the ground texture is stretched, thus making the plane feel too slow at low altitudes. The only time you feel the speed is when you pass an object.


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Caveman
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posted 01-20-2000 08:58 AM     Profile for Caveman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sense of speed in Janes WW2F is unsurpassed... And those little details like soldiers running along the ground really up the ante for immersion. The damage model is fantastic; hit a building with your right wingtip and see it shear off as you pinwheel to the right and crash -- Sometime I just run this sim to watch it model the aircraft damage...

And then there's the enemy AI that really is intelligent...


Posts: 118 | From: Huntsville, AL, USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Private Roger
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posted 01-20-2000 04:12 PM     Profile for Private Roger   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
While all the major WWII sims have good points let me remind you of one that is sometimes forgotten...

Fighter Squadron SDOE!

It is in a state of growth, and here is some of the reasons why.

The Contest for the "Best New Aircraft", and "Best Overall Aircraft" for
Fighter Squadron is underway. All the entries are in and the list is as
impressive as it is diverse.

Here is just some, of what we look forward to seeing in SDOE and judging as
"Best New Aircraft" or "Best Overall Aircraft"


Best New Aircraft

Grumman F4F-4
V1-Buzz bomb
Dauntless
Lancaster Mk. X
Curtiss P40
Arado 234C-3
F4U-1D Corsair
BF109E4
BF109F4
BF109K4
FW190A8
B-29 Superfortress
Yak-3
Hawker Hurricane MKI
Lockheed P80 "Shooting Star"
P-47d Thunderbolt (bubbletop)
Douglas B-26C Invader
Colonial Viper
Fokker DVII_G
Bristol F2b
Sopwith Camel
Mistel S 2, Ju-88/FW-190 Composite Aircraft
F-14D Tomcat
Albatros Dva
Fokker DVIII
Lavochkin La-9
Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien
Supermarine Seafang Mk 32

Best Overall Aircraft

Grumman F4F-4 WIldcat
Dauntless
Lancaster Mk. X
Curtiss P40
F4U-1D Corsair
FW190D9
BF109G6
Mitsubishi A6M5
BF109E4
BF109F4
BF109K4
FW190A8
B-29 Superfortress
Hawker Hurricane MKI
Colonial Viper
Mistel S 2, Ju-88/FW-190 Composite Aircraft
F-14D Tomcat
Lavochkin La-9
Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien
Supermarine Seafang Mk 32

As you can see the planes range from WWI to Modern day. There lies the
beauty of SDOE. With it's Open Plane architecture the sky is really the
limit!

We who fly in the SDOE skies regularly are very excited with what the future
holds for SDOE. We know the more people that learn of the great things
happening with SDOE, the more new flyers we will see in the SDOE skies.
That can only mean good things for us SDOE zealot's and for Flight Sim
enthusiasts everywhere.

Please tell all you know to checkout the New Fighter Squadron! www.fightersquadron.com

Hope you give Fighter Squadron a look!
See you online!


Private Roger


Posts: 74 | From: Dallas, Texas USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
bob123
unregistered

posted 02-05-2000 05:09 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If your looking for an accurate flight model i would point you to warbirds.

It's a free download from http://www.ientertainmentnetwork.com/warbirds/index.shtml

This is a page which reviews Flight Models(including Warbirds) www.pctestpilot.com

You could also try Aces High, a game in a similar vein (from the original creators of warbirds) get it from www.hitechcreations.com

There free to download but playing them online against 150+ people is where they come into there own.


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Karac
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posted 02-05-2000 11:02 PM     Profile for Karac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
EAW
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JayP
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Member # 858

posted 02-05-2000 11:48 PM     Profile for JayP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Of the recent prop sims I have only tried EAW and CFS. I have found EAW vastly more engrossing than CFS, largely because of the campaign and the large dogfights.

However, I urge you to consider MiG Alley. Yes, it's mostly about jets rather than props (the only prop plane you get to fly is the F51 Mustang), but it has the best dogfighting yet seen on the PC. The planes are armed with guns only and all fly at subsonic speeds (except the Sabre which will go supersonic in a dive) so it 'feels' a lot like a prop sim.

In addition, a large part of the appeal of WWII sims is the history, and MiG Alley also has a deep historical background.

I guess that's enough of the gospel according to Rowan.


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