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Author Topic: EF2000 V3 Typhoon on PS2 - video
Ozias
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posted 05-31-2000 06:13 PM     Profile for Ozias   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
this is the web address of a quicktime 4 video file showing typhoon being demonstrated at a japanese trade show of some sort
http://ps2movies.ign.com/media/news/video/tgs/typhoon_1.mov

Stills from the film

[This message has been edited by Ozias (edited 05-31-2000).]


Posts: 334 | From: London,UK | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
SuperGroove
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posted 05-31-2000 06:24 PM     Profile for SuperGroove   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wow.

Ugh...but if it's being ported to PS2...that means...NOOOO! I guess the legacy of EF2000 being a hard-core sim has come to an end. Shucks, those graphics look good too...well in all their blurry glory.

Paul


Posts: 800 | From: Colorado | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Major Tom
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posted 05-31-2000 06:54 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ah so

Now the japs are involved. Maybe they just dumbed it down for the PSX 2...


Posts: 1352 | From: Prescott, AZ | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
'
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posted 05-31-2000 07:31 PM     Profile for '   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This box has some horsepower,...but no brain.
I love Grand Turismo 2 for Playstation. That's where it's job is.

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Posts: 445 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ozias
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posted 05-31-2000 09:57 PM     Profile for Ozias   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The quality of the images is so ropey because it's handheld video camera footage of a projection screen.

Did you notice the S-37 berkut in the second still?


Posts: 334 | From: London,UK | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Victor
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posted 06-01-2000 12:35 AM     Profile for Victor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SuperGroove:
Wow.

Ugh...but if it's being ported to PS2...that means...NOOOO! I guess the legacy of EF2000 being a hard-core sim has come to an end. Shucks, those graphics look good too...well in all their blurry glory.

Paul


If this is truly DID/Rage's Typhoon..then being ported over to the PS2 may not be a bad thing...assuming that the game isn't dumbed down for the PC version. Being ported over to a console just means that they'll make MORE money off the game and make back their costs. This can only improve the chances that we'll actually see the game on the PC. Which is a very GOOD thing considering how new sims (and their respective game companies) are dropping like flies. Looking Glass and their sim being the latest casualty.


Posts: 236 | From: New York, NY | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Rick.50cal
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posted 06-01-2000 08:04 PM     Profile for Rick.50cal     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That was my second thought exactly.

Also, don't forget that this opens flight sims to the "Super-Froggy Jump" crowd. Also not a bad thing, as sales MAY increase, instead of the current power dive happening right now.

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Rick.50cal


Posts: 520 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Rick.50cal
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posted 06-01-2000 08:09 PM     Profile for Rick.50cal     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The other thing is, I guess too many of you forget how simple and not hardcore EF2K is compared to sims today.

Yes, when it first came out, EF was top of the hardcore heap, but really guys, there is no comparison today to the Falcon4 manual. This does not mean EF is not worth playing anymore, quite the contrary. I find even now that EF, while simpler than newer sims, is still my all time favorite jet sim.

That it lives on in PS2 does not bother me that much, and it could be a good thing! (like maybe getting out of the 3d-card rat race! oh and the chase for better drivers, patch updates.......)

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Rick.50cal


Posts: 520 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
RaptorJock
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posted 06-01-2000 09:03 PM     Profile for RaptorJock   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Quoted:
"Ugh...but if it's being ported to PS2...that means...NOOOO! I guess the legacy of EF2000 being a hard-core sim has come to an end."
... actually, EF2000's legacy of being a hardcore sim died before it was made. There is no way it is a hardcore sim due to the fact that it hasnt been out too long and isnt even in active service yet.. and it definately wasnt when it was being made. sure they have some facts and figures, but true hardcore sims are rare. I would rate EF2000 as a semi-realistic, but not hardcore. Something like Janes F-15 was a hardcore sim. If you've ever played it, you'll know what I mean. When you stop turning, you can almost feel the enertia the F-15E has because it still drifts back a tiny bit in the direction it flew from a little bit. You can get a sense of how big this jet is and when the plane stalls, it takes it different amounts of time depending on how its positioned. Other sims may do that, but not the way F-15 does. Small touches like that in the flight model make a huge difference. I suggest you play that first and maybe Falcon 4 if your computer can run it. (mine cant very well except in training mode when they're aren't many aircraft). Heres a good thing to check to see if it can proably be considered to be a hardcore sim - If the aircraft has been out for more than 5 or 10 years in active service. a new plane will not have a sim with a realistic flight model because that stuff takes security clearance and a lot of time to completely analyze all the flight characteristics. If you want a realistic sim on EF2000, check with the English, German, or French Air Forces or any other European country that has the '2000 and see if they'll let you try their simulator. They proly wont ;^)
Oh well, we can always wish, cant we?

Posts: 46 | From: | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 06-02-2000 08:22 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Quote:
"... actually, EF2000's legacy of being a hardcore sim died before it was made. There is no way it is a hardcore sim due to the
fact that it hasnt been out too long and isnt even in active service yet.. and it definately wasnt when it was being made."

EF2000 was the most advanced sim of the time when it was made over 5 years ago-hence why it was the *worlds* biggest selling/winner of awards etc....The plane itself has been in development since 1983

"a new plane will not have a sim with
a realistic flight model because that stuff takes security clearance and a lot of time to completely analyze all the flight characteristics"

DID;"We suplemented info from Bae with US Datcom files on aerodynamics and pilot advice on practical fly-by-wire handling characteristics....our consultant RAF pilots like it"

Quote:
"Something like Janes F-15 was a hardcore sim"

Unless you are a pilot that has flown an F-15 or Typhoon,you are in no position to be judgemental. besides Jane's was released in '98 with the same basic flight model that *all* sims use today! I'm talking about the degrees of movement ok Physics of weight are a totaly diferent thing ie Carmageddon modeled different weights in the cars- MSFS models weights in it's planes aswell..it's nothing new.

By your post i guess you haven't been "into" fsims very long.......maybe not brought up on the DOS/VGA/CGA sims of say 10 years ago?
Fly something like Tornado,then EF2000,then F-15 and finaly F4 and see the *huge* jump in flight models.

As a footnote: If Rage/DID have done their homework on Typhoon?.....there is no reason why they shouldn't have. Then EF2000 V3 will probably make you eat your words

Not trying to start a flame war but you should think why EF2000 was the worlds best flight sim, rather than trying to "knock it" in this day-and-age and put it against the likes of F-15 or F4.....which it clearly can't compete!
I play it happily alongside F4,MA,EAW even B-17 1 !!!.
To me they all have a rightfull place on my PC!

You can always go forward,but it's a lot harder to go back..........................


Tracer

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"Flying is the second greatest thing known to man!
The first is landing!!"

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited 06-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tracer (edited 06-02-2000).]


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
RaptorJock
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posted 06-02-2000 10:46 AM     Profile for RaptorJock   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually, I had talked to an F-15E pilot who I had asked to try the sim to see if it was what it said it was.(Yeah, he was a real pilot) He said the flight model was highly accurate except for some things that were later corrected in the V 1.17 patch such as takeoff speeds things like that and it definately didnt use the same flight model since the two sims were made by completely different companies. Oh sure, they use the same BASIC flight models perhaps, but basic is where it stops. I understand that as a European, you like such sims like EF2000 and get tired of our american sims comming out more often. I wouldnt mind something like the Gripen or Rafale, so I'll be waiting for those as well, but I have actually flown an aircraft and i have an idea of how aircraft should act when given to a certain stress. Not that the civil aircraft that ive flown are anything like the EF2000, you still get the feeling of what it looks like to stall and things like takeoff which are similar on most aircraft. In my opinion, EF2000 tried to model the aircraft very well and succeeded in many aspects but i dont think it got the realism that was achieved by F-15. Maybe its just me, but its my opinion. I'll wait for Typhoon to come out like you said and I'll make my final judgement.
later

Posts: 46 | From: | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 06-03-2000 07:53 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Listen,i'm *not* trying to knock you at all!
All i'm saying is the flight sim model that was used in EF2000's day was not modeled on the X,Y,Z axis.(think of it like 3D ie Doom....you couldn't look up nor down? Now of course 3D shoot'em ups ar the norm

The degrees of movement in the flight model was *only* implemented in newer flight sims.

This of course model's stall's,spins and load-out weights amongst other things.
If you pull back the stick in EF2000 the plane responds instantly-do it in ADF,TAW,F4,MA,EAW and(others)and of course F-15, there is a delay as the flight model kicks in to simulate weight etc.I think it is modeled under 6 degrees of movement? but don't quote me on it.

So i reiterate......The flight model that was used in the early 90's for sims is *incomparible* to today's sims.....it's nothing to do with the fact the sim was called EF2000! Fly F-15 III by Microprose('92)and you will still call it crap!
EF2000 was superb in that it modeled a semi-dynamic war and simulated damage to the plane

It's a generation thing my friend
I had a 286 comp and went thru DOS games (configuring boot disks, memory etc none of this Win3.1/'95'98 etc malarky )

It has *nothing* to do with being European either......................which i find quite insulting. The conversation was about flight models.

Yes i have flown civy aircraft but it's nothing to compare to a fighter jet in real life.....which i/99.9% *will* never fly.

As much as you probably don't remember TV's with Valve's in them or a horse and cart delivering the milk...................ah those days!

Hope you enjoy Typhoon?

Tracer

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"Flying is the second greatest thing known to man!
The first is landing!!"


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
tony draper
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posted 06-03-2000 11:35 AM     Profile for tony draper   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
you tell em tracer, remember retaliator, throttle back to 40% point nose at runway , go make cup of coffee while it lands itself,
i see you make models how would you like to buy yellow aircraft 1/9 scale ducted fan f16c, ill never finish the bloody thing...tony d

Posts: 1280 | From: england | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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posted 06-03-2000 02:25 PM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Tony, a man after me own walking stick
Yes that's about the easiest way to describe the flight model characteristics back *then* lol.
The youth of today and all that......

As for buying your F-16C............i was meaning the "flight model" as in what the developer of the sim uses....

But since you mention it i'm in the process of building a Man'o'War-"Norske Love" and building a model of "HMS Bounty".......which will all in take me about.. 2-3years to build!!

Now excuse me i have to get back to my Edison wax cylinder....i'm sure there is some honey in it somewhere??????


Tracer


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
tony draper
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posted 06-03-2000 04:39 PM     Profile for tony draper   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hey tracer, talking of flight modeling, did you ever try the origional flight unlimited as i recall it was fluid dynamics based and definatly felt good i think looking glass abandoned this in their following sims, don,t no why , i also liked the model in di,s tornado, still my alltime favorite, making alowances for the quality of my joystick then it felt right ,a lot of inertia heavy somehow and i remember a switchblade pilot writing in a magaine that it was very good..and hey good luck with the bounty, used to make ships in bottles when i was at sea, gordons gin bottles being the favorite,and i was just thinking ,used to cost 6/-in old money to buy them full from the bond...ah happy days...tony d


Posts: 1280 | From: england | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
RaptorJock
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posted 06-04-2000 12:31 AM     Profile for RaptorJock   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well Tracer, its been good talkin to ya on this board since you dont get hot-headed about these things. I get what you're talkin about and sorry about the European remark. I've just read posts where some people have voiced their opinions about how they're tired of American sims, which is understandable and i thought that you might have had the same feelings, so sorry bout that. Anyway, i guess i'll be off now.
see ya'll later

No one ever won a war dying for his country. He did by making the other poor bastard die for his!~General Patton


Posts: 46 | From: | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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Member # 259

posted 06-04-2000 08:16 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sure thing RaptorJock,I like constructive criticism!
Better to speak from experience than from other peoples...(good to be different from the crowd
Speak to you again soon.

Tony,yes i *do* remember trying to run the original FU!! I had a P100 32mb and about 1 frame a minute Or in internal combustion terms: "It fired once every lamp post".....
FU2 has a fantastic dynamic weather engine and cool ATC(real voice)! If you haven't got it get it!! it's on budget on Eidos 12.99
DI's Tornado i still have on my "old" P200 64mb with a full DOS boot UMB,EXP memory etc.
The fact it carries John Nichol & John Peters (Tornado Down)endorsement....shows in todays world of "fancy" graphics it's the gameplay that ultimately counts! by the way Tony you spelt *favourite* =Favorite traitor......Nehmen Sie ihn zu den Zellen!

RaptorJock made a good point about F-15's flight model,you should give that a try....it handles like a whale out of water(although i'd been there done that got the T-shirt with F-15 when i first bought it=played it to death!
Waiting for B-17 2 just now, prob be one of the last great sims ever to be released the way the markets going?

Cheers
Tracer

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"Flying is the second greatest thing known to man!
The first is landing!!"


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
CFALCONW
unregistered

posted 06-04-2000 12:09 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well EF2000's flight model is more dynamic and not so hardcoded as the one in Falcon4 and Flanker2, it only lacked roll inertia and pitch delay but other than that it had a full 6DOF flightmodel that modelled yawing oscillations, even when there was no rudder input you could get the FPM off center when maneavring violently and the flight feeling itself had no boundary hardcoded feelings like that of F4 and F2(other than the roll and pitch delay). EF2000's flightmodel and even F16 Agressor's is purely based on realtime calculations.
Ok maybe they have the turnrates and turn radii etc. wrong at some speeds etc. and some other things but hey it is realtime calculated so the outcome is not so easy to predict wether it will behave like the real jet or not.
I think the future lies in this sort of dynamic flightmodels because they feel more natural but there is some work to be done to get it behave excactly like the real jet like adding more flight parameters like wave drag, turbulence, wing deformation and a buch of other things.

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