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Author Topic: FOR THOSE WHO'VE NEVER SEEN A PLANE GO MACH 1
Influenza
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posted 04-19-2000 06:21 PM     Profile for Influenza   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
An F-14 Tomcat at low altitude, flying by a carrier. Approx. 1.2 MB in size.

http://members.xoom.com/El_Diablo/FS14ss.mpg


Posts: 60 | From: | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
'
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posted 04-19-2000 07:29 PM     Profile for '   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No coments...

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Posts: 445 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Casey
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posted 04-19-2000 09:27 PM     Profile for Casey   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's sweeeeet!

I wish there was sound too.


Posts: 636 | From: America | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Beeker
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posted 04-19-2000 10:56 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks man .. i slobbered all over my keyboard, at least you warned me =)
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E. coli
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posted 04-20-2000 01:25 AM     Profile for E. coli   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wow, I only expected one round of condensation as he passed thru the threashold. Did you catch the guy reaching for his ears

[This message has been edited by E. coli (edited 04-20-2000).]

[This message has been edited by E. coli (edited 04-20-2000).]


Posts: 106 | From: College Station, Texas | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JA
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posted 04-20-2000 10:51 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Pretty incredible. I didn't realize the clouds were visible for that long. I've seen stills of that kind of thing, but I thought it was a split-second phenomenon captured by a lucky photographer or by picking a choice frame out of a reel of high-speed film.
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MEO
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posted 04-21-2000 12:44 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Why dont more sims mimick the effect of going thru the sound barrier? I hav'nt seen one
that even offers a "Jolt" as you pass it?
It would just be a nice touch I think...

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Saint Viper
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posted 04-21-2000 01:03 PM     Profile for Saint Viper   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's because there is not 'jolt' when you break the sound barrier. Also, those effects in the video are not normal. It takes a rare combination of temperature, pressure, and humidity to get effects like that.

Many games actually have similar effects though. Pull enough g's and voticies appear above the wings or at the wingtips. F4 has this as do several others.


Posts: 590 | From: Manitowoc WI USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
TEMPY
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posted 04-21-2000 07:03 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
F18 interceptor from the amiga had jolt
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stealth
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posted 04-24-2000 05:43 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Who is the pilot?...
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K6_Scorp
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posted 04-30-2000 02:12 PM     Profile for K6_Scorp   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The video clip looks cool, but why is the camera's clock not affected when the click goes into half-speed? And why is aircraft making a pronounced nose dive when breaking the barrier? And why is the water ahead of the aircraft being disturbed when it's flying at an altitude of about 300 ft? Like I said...cool video, but I question it's authenticity. It's sort of like this photo:
www.cityintheclouds.com/images/fly-by.jpg . Someone said that it was taken from the USS Stennis, and I checked into it and here's the reply I got from USS Stennis:
"> It's a fake, not even taken onboard the Stennis. It originated onboard
> USS Abraham Lincoln during their last cruise and was brought over to the
> Stennis by somebody who made their deployment. Just a cool picture, but
> also a nice bit of trickery using Photoshop. Thanks for asking, most
> people know that a pilot who is dumb enough to try something like that
> would've died in a fiery crash a long time before!
>
> V/R JO2 Travis Meadors "

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Posts: 195 | From: Sunny Southern California | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
BoneDome
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posted 04-30-2000 05:27 PM     Profile for BoneDome   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hmmm,

I'm not sure you appreciate how difficult that sort of thing is to fake. A photograph is easy, but video is really tough.
In answer to the points you make, I can only offer this:

"...why is the camera's clock not affected when the click goes into half-speed?"
Well, the chances are that it's NOT the clock of the camera used to shoot the original footage. This video looks like it's been digitised off a DVD (or digital video), and it's probable that the timecode was generated on the computer that did the digitising, so the timcode would remain in realtime no matter what speed the the footage was run at on the source machine.

"And why is aircraft making a pronounced nose dive when breaking the barrier?"
The horizon line isn't visable in the frames where the F-14 seems to nosedive, so we dont have any reference points to judge the cameras orientation from. I'm betting that either the pressure wave from the jet caused some camera shake, or the guy shooting the footage tried to cover his left ear as the plane flew past (believe me, you WOULD want to cover your ears in that situation!), thereby causing the camera shake.

"...why is the water ahead of the aircraft being disturbed when it's flying at an altitude of about 300 ft?"
I don't know enough about the physics or aerodynamics of shockwaves to answer that. But given the amount of air the aircraft is displacing at that speed, I guess it could cause disturbences in the air ahead of it. Besides, I'm not so sure that the disturbence is ahead of the jet, but rather to the side.

I agree that the flyby picture is somwhat questionable, but I think the video is authentic.

Just an opinion.

Bonedome


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Rider
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posted 04-30-2000 07:19 PM     Profile for Rider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi.
That pic was posted on the Janes FA-18 board a few weeks ago... Here is a quote from Janes FA-18 Lead Designer, CJ Martin...

"It's real. I even know the pilot. And I have a copy hanging on my wall.
This picture was taken during the USS America's 1989 dependents day cruise. The pilot was the then skipper of VF-33, Dale "Snort" Snodgrass. Also in the picture, with his hands clasped behind his back is the current CNO Jay Johnson (who was then the CAG of CVW-1).

Snort is a legendary F-14 pilot. He recently retired and is very active on the airshow circuit (he flies an F4U Corsair as well). While in the Navy, he flew F-14 demostrations at numerous airshows around the country. If you saw an F-14 at an airshow during the early 90's, chances are Snort was the pilot.

I had the privledge of serving under Snort; he took over as XO of VF-33 about six months before I rolled to shore duty.

An aside about the picture; the telephoto lens used to capture this image makes things look a bit closer than they real were. Yes, Snort was below the level of the flight deck when he started his run well aft of the ship. He pulled up and rolled inverted as he passed the LSO platform. This was planned and practiced beforehand. The airshows are always better out to sea."

-CJ
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Lead Designer,
Jane's F/A-18

Edit: Here is the thread http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000737.html

[This message has been edited by Rider (edited 04-30-2000).]


Posts: 71 | From: Seattle WA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
DRAINO
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posted 04-30-2000 07:38 PM     Profile for DRAINO     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This is a small world we live in. I just saw Snort flying the Corsair today at the NAS Norfolk airshow. He did his demonstration, which I might add was pretty cool then flew in formation with a Tomcat and Hornet. I'm eagerly awaiting the air show at NAS Oceana in September, when the Blue Angels will be there.
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Lucky_1
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posted 04-30-2000 07:59 PM     Profile for Lucky_1   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Maybe that pic is real, but it looks out of scale. The plane looks funny next to the people standing on the deck. Maybe its just an optical illusion of some sort, because we can't see or really know how far away the plane really is from the deck.

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Two beers, or not two beers. There is no question.


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DRAINO
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posted 04-30-2000 08:24 PM     Profile for DRAINO     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I just realized that I saw that same pic at the airshow today. It was on a mousepad that a Tomcat driver I talked to was trying to sell. On the mousepad there was no carrier, just the Tomcat. You're right Lucky_1 there isn't something kosher about that shot.
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K6_Scorp
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posted 04-30-2000 09:12 PM     Profile for K6_Scorp   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Now I'm confused...I wrote to USS Stennis and they said it was a fake from USS Abraham Lincoln, but CJ Martin says that he knows the pilot? All of a sudden, the commercial for tootsie pops come to mind..."How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? Uh one...uh two...uh three...crunch! The world may never know"

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Posts: 195 | From: Sunny Southern California | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
K6_Scorp
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posted 04-30-2000 09:15 PM     Profile for K6_Scorp   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Good points Bonedome, but I'm still skeptical about it. Nice clip, none the less, though.

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Stinger
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posted 05-02-2000 10:14 PM     Profile for Stinger   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The F-14 in the video clip isn't actually breaking the sound barrier...it's still in the transonic regime as the shockwave is seen over the middle of the wings...

The airflow over the wings to the point of the shock wave is supersonic though.

If the Tomcat was truely supersonic the airflow over the entire airframe would have to be supersonic and the shockwave would be at the tail.

What you are seeing is the heat created by the compression of the air ahead of the shockwave and the pressure change causing the invisble moisture in the air to become visible in the form of a cloud.

Looks very cool!

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Cheers,

Stinger

Owner of the Flanker FBO
http://stinger.flanker-arena.com


Posts: 356 | From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Major Tom
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posted 05-03-2000 05:08 AM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The picture of the F-14 close fly by was authentic, but it came at a price to the crew of the jet. They where grounded for 30 days!
Posts: 1352 | From: Prescott, AZ | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Lucky_1
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posted 05-03-2000 09:53 AM     Profile for Lucky_1   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
How do you they were grounded 30 days? The whole thing looks like it was planned. Why else would there be people all lined up with cameras waiting for them?

If a pilot is going to pull a stunt like this, he doesnt go about telling everyone "Hey, watch me tomorrow, I'm gonna buzz the carrier!"

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Two beers, or not two beers. There is no question.


Posts: 635 | From: Knoxville, TN. | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Vector
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posted 05-03-2000 11:21 AM     Profile for Vector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Lucky, if you couldn't figure it out, Major Tom was talking about the photograph NOT the video.

Give it a rest guys, that's a real video. Any fantasized indication that it's fake is far outweighed by the indications that it's not fake.

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-\/ector, Flight Sim Sympathizer


Posts: 903 | From: Comox, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Lucky_1
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posted 05-03-2000 02:22 PM     Profile for Lucky_1   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oh Yeah, I knew that, heh, no harm done, sorry.

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Two beers, or not two beers. There is no question.


Posts: 635 | From: Knoxville, TN. | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Major Tom
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posted 05-03-2000 09:04 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
(major tom stops screwing the silencer on to his HK 45)

No harm indeed

[This message has been edited by Major Tom (edited 05-03-2000).]


Posts: 1352 | From: Prescott, AZ | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
CJ Martin
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posted 05-04-2000 07:12 AM     Profile for CJ Martin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Perhaps this will help:

Here's a copy of a message posted on the rec.avaition.military.naval newsgroup about that famous Tomcat flyover picture 9/6/99:

Greetings.... I'd like to introduce myself.... I am Captain Dale Snodgrass and currently Director of Congressional Liasion, US House of Representatives...... a non-flying billet. I am amazed that after nine
years this photo is being scrutinized with such fervor.. The photo is in fact real. It was taken during a dependent's day airshow aboard the USS America in the summer of 1989. I was Executive Officer of VF 33,
the Captain of the America was JJ Coonan. It was of my opening pass in the F14 demo. It commenced as a sneak pass from 3-5 miles behind the starboard rear quarter of the carrier, just slightly below the flight
deck at an airspeed of approx. 270 knots. Just prior to reaching the fantail zone 5 afterburner was selected. Upon reaching the fantail a slight climbing HARD turn(5-6 G's) is initiated to pop up and parallel the angle deck. Once parallel and micro seconds after this photo was taken a full deflection roll to the left was initiated. Airspeed was
now apprx 315 kts. This shipboard airshow opening was first performed by a great fighter pilot who commanded VF-84 in 1980-8, his name is Ed "Hunack" Andrews. This photo indeed has a surrealistic quality. I believe it is due to the focal length of the camera used.

There is no doubt that this pass was an agressive low level maneuver, however, it was briefed to the Airwing Commander who happened to be Captain JL Johnson. Currently he is the Chief of Naval Operations. In fact the officer standing on the flight with his hands behind his back adjacent the LSO platform is CNO. After rolling wings level at an altitude slightly above the flight deck I then pulled vertical with a qaurter roll to the left, ending with an immelman roll out 90 degrees from the ship's BRC (base recovery course or ships heading for the uninformed) and continued with the remainder of the demo.

I have to chuckle that after nine years this photo demands such interest. I first saw this photo during the next at sea period after the dependents day cruise, when the Third Class Petty Officer who took the photo brought a copy to the ready room. I had ten copies made and destroyed the negative!!!! All subsequent photos are copies derived from the original ten.


If you remain skeptical.... please call me at my office 202 225 7808.
As a post script....... at my change of command from Fighter, Wing Atlantic (Jan 96) my staff gave me an original oil painting of the photo by Richard Thompson. It is available for private showing!!!!

Just call.

No kill like a gun kill...... Snort

-----end repost

Note that Snort is now retired from the US Navy, and as noted previously, is now active on the airshow circuit.

-CJ

[This message has been edited by CJ Martin (edited 05-04-2000).]


Posts: 117 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged

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