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Author Topic: F-15 speed and other games i can fly
Jason
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posted 04-03-2000 04:22 PM     Profile for Jason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
OK,
F-15...i can't even get to Mach 2 when i dive from 50,000 feet....i ditch external tanks(i take all 3 up there with me) and dive at about 70 degrees....stay at burner.
I pull up at around 10000 feet(not radar altimeter)and i level out at about 3000 feet(about 1000 feet off the ground)and i am only at 835 IAS......840 TAS(give or take), any way to get faster and....give me some games that will run ok on a system that funs F-15 with a 4 mg vid card and 96 mb ram....plus a 333 celeron

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don't listen to the bitchin' betty


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Obi Offiah
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posted 04-03-2000 05:23 PM     Profile for Obi Offiah   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Jason!

This is because of the drag caused by the CFT's ( Conformal Fuel Tanks ) which are attached to the side of the F-15's fuselage. The mach 2.5 peformance figures you have seen are from an early 'sanitized' Eagle, the Streak Eagle. This Eagle was unpainted to lower drag/weight and had a couple of thousand's of pounds worth of internal equipment removed to save weight. When the F-15E flies without the CFT's (very rarely) 'I believe' it's performance is very close to that of an F-15C.

Thanks
Obi Offiah


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Jason
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posted 04-03-2000 06:52 PM     Profile for Jason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
If you read my post, it said i jettison my CFTs before i dove and i still only got to about 875 IAS at 3000 feet.

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don't listen to the bitchin' betty


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Obi Offiah
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posted 04-03-2000 07:48 PM     Profile for Obi Offiah   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jason:

Are you refering to Janes F-15?, if so you cannot jettison them, just as you can't in reality, however in reality the ground crew can remove them. Janes F-15 does not allow you to fly without the CFT's. CFT's are not like the external fuel tanks, CFT's attach to the side of the intakes and run underneath the wing root, from head-on they make the F-15E look much fatter than any other Eagle variants (other Eagle's do carry CFT's occasionally also). The 'E' can carry an additional 3 external fuel tanks 'in conjunction' with the CFT's, plus the CFT's enable carriage of upto 12 bombs.

Check out this link and compare the F-15E (with CFT's) and F-15A-D images. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm

Thanks
Obi Offiah


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xj_mike
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posted 04-04-2000 07:51 AM     Profile for xj_mike   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've asked it before and I'll ask it again.. How come you can't do this:

I mean: Carry multiple 'light' bombs under the underwing hardpoints in JF-15? It can be done here, so why the hell not in the sim? What you can do is select up to 24 weapons to be dropped, but y'can't fit them on the friggin jet! All I wanted to do is drop 24 mk 82's all at one on a camel. Is that too much to ask?

[This message has been edited by xj_mike (edited 04-04-2000).]


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Vector
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posted 04-04-2000 12:06 PM     Profile for Vector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
xj_mike I hear you man!!! Janes does not seem to like heavily loading up aircraft for some reason. In F-18 the most you can carry per pylong is 2, while I'm sure I've seen triple ejector racks mounted. Seeing the F-15 loaded up like that kicks *** , and makes me wish you could do this in real sims. Thoe are MK-20s I believe aren't they?

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-\/ector, Flight Sim Sympathizer


Posts: 903 | From: Comox, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jason
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posted 04-04-2000 01:11 PM     Profile for Jason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm sorry,
i got my external tanks and CFTs confused...so that is why my speed is limited to 900 IAS before i crash into the ground (from 40000 feet....i can't get upto 50,000 like i remember being able to)but can comeone shed some light into what else i can fly....please!

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don't listen to the bitchin' betty


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Turbo
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posted 04-04-2000 01:24 PM     Profile for Turbo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There's nothing you can do, dude. The flight dynamics just aren't modeled correctly in Janes F-15, it's just as simple as that.
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xj_mike
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posted 04-04-2000 02:32 PM     Profile for xj_mike   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Affermative, those are Mk 20 rockeyes for sure.. Some tankplatoon is in for on hellova headache!

Makes you wannago do the same, eh?


Posts: 239 | From: Lunar surface | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jack Garrett
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posted 04-04-2000 04:31 PM     Profile for Jack Garrett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jason
Had the same prob.I just ended up putting it on my shelf and returned to the wait for F4
Hammer

Posts: 119 | From: Vancouver Island Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Lucky_1
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posted 04-04-2000 07:54 PM     Profile for Lucky_1   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I did the same experiment Jason did, trying to break the Mach 2 number.

Fastest I've ever gotten was Mach 1.65 or so, but that was when I lawndarted in the ground.

Fortunately, you really don't need to go that fast in the sim, except it would be nice for intercept missions.

It's funny though, in the manual they talk about using the F-15's superior throttle response and acceleration. Heh, compared to AI, the thing is a slow sick dog.

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Two beers, or not two beers. There is no question.


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Lud von Pipper
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posted 04-04-2000 08:58 PM     Profile for Lud von Pipper   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
the fact is that the F-15E is an adaptation of the C model for a role it wasn't conceived for: It's heavier, due to the needed structural renforcemnets, and most of the time gets that fixed fuel tanks (very high fuel consumption at low altitude).
These tanks put up so much drag at high speed that even the uprated GE-110 engines are not able to push the plane much faster than mach 1,5.
Then, these engines are tweaked for low altitude performances (a bit like the Tornado does, with much better results), which implies that they are not so well suited for bisonic speeds at altitude.

As for the Bomb load, It's dangerous to put an aircraft in a condition where it would be not able to abort on take off (brakes would not cope with the mass).
The photo above is that of a protoype, and I dubt that all those bomb would be at full weight.
LvP


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CJ Martin
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posted 04-05-2000 08:45 AM     Profile for CJ Martin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Lud von Pipper has it right. That picture is NOT repeat NOT an F-15E...it is an F-15D that was used during the development of the F-15E. In tests, it was found that stores carried on a wing mounted MER tended to collide with the Conformal Fuel tank. Thus operational F-15E NEVER REPEAT NEVER carry MER's on the wing stations. It is not cleared to do so, period. That's why we don't allow it in the game.

As for the "Top speed" question which seems to come up every so often, the basic fact is that with the -220 engines and CFT's mounted, the aircraft won't hit Mach 2. The game matches real aircraft speed curves almost exactly for any given weight and / or drag index value.

So "Turbo" why do you say flight dynamics are "messed up" in Jane's F-15? Enlighten me...what do you know that real F-15 pilots (who have verified our flight model) don't?

-CJ


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Jedi Master
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posted 04-05-2000 12:09 PM     Profile for Jedi Master   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I was about to get into this when I saw CJ already covered this, and he should know...he's gotten all the unclassified info there is. <G>
Anyway, as Lud mentioned the engines in the E are not the same as the C/D model and are optimized for low alt flight, not high alt interception. The E just doesn't have the thrust at 36,000 ft to hit Mach 2.
Although it LOOKS like a C, it doesn't fly like one. It's a bomb truck that can defend itself.
Would've been nice if they'd had the C as well as the E (CJ? Hmmmm??? <G> ) as it's far more capable than the E in air-air combat, but it has an older cockpit with less advanced avionics (no triple MFDs).
As an aside, I've heard that the CFT's actually REDUCED drag by smoothing out the plane's lines. I've never seen any figures re: acceleration and top speeds without CFTs versus with EMPTY CFTs (empty is important to minimize weight effects), so I can't say for certain.
The Jedi Master

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Scott Elson
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posted 04-05-2000 01:46 PM     Profile for Scott Elson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jedi Master,

Actually the CFTs do lower the top speeds of the aircraft.

Here are some numbers (maybe this time I'll remember to save this in a file so I don't have to keep re-typing it ).

The numbers will be for a Standard Day with an aircraft using the F100-PW-220 in level flight.

First a clean aircraft. At sealevel max speed (and Structural Design Limit (SDL)) is around Mach 1.2. At about 22K the plane is limited by the SDL at Mach 1.75 (below this the SDL is not reached). This remains true until around 40K when the plane tops out at Mach 2.4. (As a side note for STD - 10 degs C the aircraft remains constrained by the SDL reaching a max speed of Mach 2.5 at 45K. From the point the SDL doesn't go up anymore with increases in altitude. At about 58K the max speed goes below the SDL.) Max altitude for STD is about 58K.

For an aircraft with 4 AIM-7s these are the numbers (Note the SDL remains the same). At sealevel the max speed is 1.15. The SDL is reached at about 26K at Mach 1.9. Max speed tops out at about Mach 2.3 at 36K. Max altitude is about 55K.

OK, now let's bring the CFTs into play. Unfortunately I don't have the numbers for just CFTs. This is for an aircraft with CFTs, 4 AIM-9s and 4 AIM-7s. Max speed at sealevel is Mach 1.15. Here the SDL has dropped to Mach 1.16(ish). Max speed is Mach 1.55 at 37K. Max altitude is about 50K but it looks like you have to have things just right to maintain this. Adding a LANTIRN drops the max speed to Mach 1.35 at about 36K.

Hope this was of some interest.

Elf


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xj_mike
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posted 04-05-2000 07:05 PM     Profile for xj_mike   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ahhh.. I see.. Thanks CJ. I didn't know that one.

But I still want to drop 24 mk 82's on a single camel.. What are the odds of a B-52 sim?


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Brister
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posted 04-06-2000 06:56 AM     Profile for Brister   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I believe the airspeed limit for CFT’s only is M2.0 from about 36k and up, and around 700 kts below.

Last I knew the -220’s installed in the C’s were the same engine as the –220 installed in the E’s? I think all the F100’s are gone now. The guard probably still has some though. Has there been some engine changes I missed?

Interesting that F-15 still generates discussion and people are still buying it. Sure would love to see a Jane’s F-15 II modeled after the most current E models!

Brister


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Turbo
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posted 04-07-2000 02:28 PM     Profile for Turbo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
To CJ MArtin:

I can only say this. There is a day, 7 June 1985, looking over a sea of F-15s, 135 to be exact(and about 100 F-16s). Friday's was incentive ride day, and it was my turn. Being an avionics specialist (fire control system (radar, HUD, INS etc...) in the 426th (killer Claws) AMU I pretty much had more than enough sim time (on a real simulator) to keep one of those puppies airborne and do a few tricks of my own. At that time, the Air Force trained us avionics pukes (as they used to call us) on using the fire control system in-flight for obvious reasons. I don't want to get into all of that since I have come to hate typing anything that doesn't have to do with my own simulator which I'm working on. I'll try to brief. Take off: The pilot pushed forward on the stick and told me to watch out for my family jewels before he punched it. I'll expound a bit. The F-15 has a helluva lot of lift in the wings and at about 60-70 knots the nose will come off the ground and will do a wheelie. This isn't enough to get airborne, but it is enough to scrape the tail cones or worse, the augmentors. This happens a lot to new pilots (both take off and landing). (FIRST OF ALL, THIS ISN'T MODELED IN JANE'S!)The only thing I can say is wow!!!!! The force... the power... being pushed back into that seat... words can never describe the awesome power that you feel (I'm no writer anyways), really. Anyway, I couldn't help but grin from ear to ear, enjoying every second (except on the return leg when I almost puked). The stick comes back and we go vertical. I look right, and it hits me on just how many aircraft are parked on the ramp. To make a very long story short (I don't want to bore you and I don't want to type all of it either), the F-15 is very sensitive. A little input and whoosh left or right you go. Very touchy. Infact, the pilot told me to use the trim button to maneuver. I knew this anyway from the simulator. We flew through the Grand Canyon, did a few BFMs, cruised over Gila Bend blah blah blah. Like I said before, on the way back, I got a little nauseated. Anyway, that pig in your F-15 game doesn't handle a bit like the F-15E's I worked on and watched do FCFs. That sluggish junk you call an accurate flight model doesn't even come close to the real McCoy. I gotta go for now...

BTW, I believe that's not an F-15D but an F-15B(a/c tailnumber 1291 to be exact)in the above photo if it's the test platform. That b/s about F-15 pilots testing your products is a crock and you know it. I don't see any endorsement from the USAF on the box, and it certainly doesn't handle like the ones I see blasting off (vertical) on a regular basis. Are there any other F-15/F-16 technicians (ex too) etc. out there that know what I'm talkin' about? BTW (again), just to let you know, I have an interesting job nowadays (I seperated from the USAF a few years ago). I'm an engineer that does software mods/design on an ACMI system as well as hardware stuff. Which means I see engagements everyday from any view I please (cockpit/satellite etc...) so don't try to b/s me. As you know a lot of this kind of stuff is classified, so I've said enough. Like I said, I gotta go.


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Erich Schneider
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posted 04-07-2000 03:08 PM     Profile for Erich Schneider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey, Turbo: get out a Jane's F-15 manual and check the "Special Thanks" section of the credits. See "1st Lt. Sean Long, 391st Fighter Squadron, USAF"? He's a bona fide F-15E driver who posts to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim quite often, and he was one of the F-15 pilots to test the game for the EA team.

Next time do a little homework before calling one of the program's chief designers, and one of the most stand-up guys you'll ever encounter on the net, a liar.

[This message has been edited by Erich Schneider (edited 04-07-2000).]


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CJ Martin
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posted 04-07-2000 03:13 PM     Profile for CJ Martin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Turbo,

Bite me.

First off, there were NO F-15E's in the USAF in 1985. Care to try again?

Second off, Capt Sean Long, USAF, flew the F-15E while assigned to the 391st Bold Tigers during the development of F-15. Look at the credits; he helped us out quite a bit with the "feel" of the game. He thinks we have it right, and that's good enough for me.

Lt. Col. George Wargo (USAF, ret) is another former F-15 pilot that helped us out in the game.

So, which is it...are you calling me a liar, or both of those real F-15 pilots frauds?

Third, during the development of F-15, we traveled down to the main F-15E base (you figure out which base that is since you are the "expert"). While there, we spent an entire day in the real F-15E simulator, interviewed more F-15E crews (most of which were DS vets), and received a great deal of information from the USAF. The USAF does not "endorse" games...that would be illegal.

To sum up, buy yourself a clue. I'm damn tired of having to defend either myself, the game, or my friends (you see, Capt Long is a personal friend of mine from well before I took this job) from idiots like you.

Grow up or shut up.

-CJ


Posts: 117 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
CJ Martin
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posted 04-07-2000 03:39 PM     Profile for CJ Martin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Furthermore...

So "Turbo", I take it you are disputing the F-15 model in Jane's F-15, specifically the vertical performance of the jet.

Is that a correct assumption?

So all of the NASA wind tunnel data, USAF manuals (including the F15E dash one) and McAir engineering support we got during the development of the game is wrong?

Or are you trying to tell me that the VMAX switch is really an anti-gravity device?

Do you even know what that switch does?

Awaiting your answers, dude.

-CJ


Posts: 117 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Farcaster
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posted 04-07-2000 03:44 PM     Profile for Farcaster     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just how few parts do the F-15C and F-15E share? I hear that it's VERY few.
Posts: 69 | From: Toronto, ON, Canada | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Basher
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posted 04-07-2000 05:17 PM     Profile for Basher   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CJ-

Never had the opportunity to activate the VMAX switch, but being an ex- <EagleKeeper> I have had my share of safety-wiring it closed. I always wondered why the safety wire was broken, never had the guts to ask the pilot.

By the way, I just finished the IRAQ campaign in F-15 -incredible-

Basher <pre-flighting forever>

[This message has been edited by Basher (edited 04-28-2000).]


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Brister
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posted 04-07-2000 06:14 PM     Profile for Brister   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Turbo,

Since you asked, here’s some comments from an ex tech. I think your comments are out of line. I only spent a few years on the F-15 but I did run the FCF/ weight & balance program for a couple years on E models (with –229s). I have to say I disagree with your comments about Jane’s F-15.

I can do an FCF profile take off in this sim and get to 20,000 feet and still be at the end of the runway. What’s so sluggish about that? You just got to know what your doing, . I bought this sim the day it came out and was flying it regularly till I upgraded my system a few weeks ago. I was also flight control rig qualified, and although I wouldn’t say the flight model is perfect, I do think it’s about as close as we should expect. I think it's pretty dam close

No, I never got a ride in a F-15, but I have had a few in another M2.5 jet so I think I can relate, just a little.

I think it’s sad someone with your knowledge and experience doesn’t have a grip on the perspective of the situation. You better than most of these people should appreciate the complexity of a jet like the F-15E and understand just how hard it must be to replicate the flight model and the systems they do on a $40 home computer game. Designed in large part for people who have never flown or even been around an aircraft like this. What’s up with that?

You asked,

Brister


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Brister
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posted 04-07-2000 06:49 PM     Profile for Brister   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
OOPS!

Scratch that 20k and make that 14 or 15. Got a little carried away there.


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Turbo
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posted 04-09-2000 02:27 AM     Profile for Turbo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CJ: you're right about no F-15E (at least not in service) in 1985 I forgot to mention it was a B model (a/c 3110 if my memory serves me right). I'm sorry if I pissed you off. I understand your frustrations. BTW, seen a lot of jets return with broken safety wire on the V-Max switch. If you really want to know what it does... I'll only say (to be safe) fuel consumption goes up even more than in 'burner and you can "fry" a turbine if you engage it for too long.

Basher: Keep up the good work.

Brister: "...I can do an FCF profile take off in this sim and get to 20,000 feet and still be at the end of the runway." You know that the real Eagle can go vertical as soon as the wheels are in the wheelwells.

Brister: ... F-15E and understand just how hard it must be to replicate the flight model and the systems they do on a $40 home computer game. Designed in large part for people who have never flown or even been around an aircraft like this. What’s up with that?
You're right, I should know better. Thanks for putting things in perspective. From now on I'll just keep silent. Gotta go, Bye!


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CJ Martin
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posted 04-09-2000 07:52 AM     Profile for CJ Martin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Turbo,

First you said "Anyway, that pig in your F-15 game doesn't handle a bit like the F-15E's I worked on and watched do FCFs. That sluggish junk you call an accurate flight model doesn't even come close to the real McCoy."

Now you admit you never worked on F-15E's.

Interesting.

Fact is, you have no idea what an F-15E should feel like in flight. The F-15E, even without the CFT's (which I doubt your F-15B had installed on your little hop), is some 8,000 pounds heavier than a F-15C. Same thrust. More drag. More weight. You do the math.

You also said "That b/s about F-15 pilots testing your products is a crock and you know it."

I see you haven't retracted that statement either...even though you are dead wrong. I fact, you all but call me a liar.

You are a real piece of work, dude.

-CJ


Posts: 117 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jason
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posted 04-09-2000 02:35 PM     Profile for Jason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
ok......can someone tell me what a FCF profile is and how to do it(if possible) in F-15

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don't listen to the bitchin' betty


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Turbo
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posted 04-09-2000 03:52 PM     Profile for Turbo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I tried to avoid a fight with you, but if you insist...

C.J: "First you said "Anyway, that pig in your F-15 game doesn't handle a bit like the F-15E's I worked on and watched do FCFs. That sluggish junk you call an accurate flight model doesn't even come close to the real McCoy.""
>> If what you claim is an accurate flight model blah, blah, blah then why the patches?


C.J.: Now you admit you never worked on F-15E's.

>>Learn how to read! I was referring to the incentive ride.


Fact is, you have no idea what an F-15E should feel like in flight. The F-15E, even without the CFT's (which I doubt your F-15B had installed on your little hop), is some 8,000 pounds heavier than a F-15C. Same thrust. More drag. More weight. You do the math.

>>Yeah whatever. You apparently have NEVER seen an F-15E in action (aerial demonstration).

C.J. (quoting me):You also said "That b/s about F-15 pilots testing your products is a crock and you know it."

I see you haven't retracted that statement either...even though you are dead wrong. I fact, you all but call me a liar.

>> The truth hurts, doesn't it.

C.J.:You are a real piece of work, dude.

>> That's more than what I could say about you.



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Turbo
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posted 04-09-2000 04:10 PM     Profile for Turbo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jason, An FCF (Functional Check Flight) occurs when an aircraft has been out of service for more than a specified period of time (i.e. been sitting on the ground too long) for whatever reason. Basically it involves putting the aircraft through the wringer testing everything (and I mean everything) to make sure the aircraft is ready to be put back into service. The pilot usually does a max climb (testing the aircraft's maximum rate of climb and the engines power/response) from the runway. In an F-15/F-16, the pilot usually goes straight up no sooner than the wheels are off the ground. Just like in Jane's hahaha
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Obi Offiah
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posted 04-09-2000 06:58 PM     Profile for Obi Offiah   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CJ:

You wrote >"The F-15E, even without the CFT's (which I doubt your F-15B had installed on your little hop), is some 8,000 pounds heavier than a F-15C."<

This is surprising. I have always wondered what the aircrafts real weight was. In every F-15E publication I've read I always see an empty weight of around 31500lb. The F-15C is said to have an empty weight of 28500lb. I thought that the 3000lb difference was to beef up the structure of the 'E' for higher loads and the remaining 5500lb came from the weight of both CFT's.
In the Smallwood's book 'Strike Eagle' one of the pilots said >"That first night we went out with airplanes completely loaded. We had two bags [auxiliary tanks] of fuel and twelve Mark-20s [500-pound rockeye bombs]. And the scary part was that they had to download two of out four AIM-9s [infrared seeking, air-to-air missiles] in order to get us down to a max gross weight of 81000 pounds."
That statement supports what you said about the CFTs adding to the E's 37000 weight.
However loading the same cofiguration the pilot stated in Janes F-15 brings it to 75600lb?

Thanks
Obi Offiah


Posts: 149 | From: London | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
CJ Martin
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Member # 1257

posted 04-10-2000 04:56 PM     Profile for CJ Martin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Turbo,

You tried to avoid a fight with me exactly how? By saying little gems like "...that pig in your F-15 game..." or "That b/s about F-15 pilots testing your products is a crock and you know it."

Now you want to try to claim the high road? LOL! Too late dude. I was only responding in kind.

I notice you skirted the issue BTW...an F-15B isn't the same thing as an F-15E in terms of flight model. Your incentive ride means nothing.

And BTW, the flight model in F-15 wasn't patched. Try again.

Me never seen an F-15E demo? Ummm...gee, I guess that demo I got on tape, plus all the other footage I shot from the end of the runway and on the ramp isn't real...haha...you lose again. Fact is, the best flight demos are out to sea...where Tomcats do supersonic, low altitude flybys and A-6E's drop 500lb'ers in the ships wake.

Among other things.

If you really want this to get ugly dude, I got no problem with that. I'm tired of smug little know-nothing trolls like you.

So let's see, when exactly were you in USAF? And when did you get out? Answer if you dare...

-CJ
(once known as SMUT)


Posts: 117 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
xj_mike
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posted 04-11-2000 05:00 AM     Profile for xj_mike   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CJ, looks like you have one of the best jobs around.. Any chance of a job for me?
Posts: 239 | From: Lunar surface | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Turbo
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Member # 209

posted 04-12-2000 06:36 AM     Profile for Turbo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
C.J.:You tried to avoid a fight with me exactly how? By saying little gems like "...that pig in your F-15 game..." or "That b/s about F-15 pilots testing your products is a crock and you know it."

>>I clearly stated that I was sorry, READ again.
C.J.:Now you want to try to claim the high road? LOL! Too late dude. I was only responding in kind.
>>Accepted.

C.J.:I notice you skirted the issue BTW...an F-15B isn't the same thing as an F-15E in terms of flight model. Your incentive ride means nothing.
>>The F-15E that beat the F-16XL (for the contract) was in fact a modified F-15B. I participated in that program.

C.J.:And BTW, the flight model in F-15 wasn't patched. Try again.
>>O.K.

Me never seen an F-15E demo? Ummm...gee, I guess that demo I got on tape, plus all the other footage I shot from the end of the runway and on the ramp isn't real...haha...you lose again. Fact is, the best flight demos are out to sea...where Tomcats do supersonic, low altitude flybys and A-6E's drop 500lb'ers in the ships wake.
>>I've seen just as much. Hell, I used to go down to EOR (End Of Runway) on my lunch break and watch all kinds of action. I've even been out to the gunnery range (Gila Bend) and watch bomb runs and strafings (F-16, A-7 and A-10's as well) and occasionally F-111's swoosh by (now I know why they call it whispering death).

Among other things.

C.J.:If you really want this to get ugly dude, I got no problem with that. I'm tired of smug little know-nothing trolls like you.
>>I wasn't trolling, I was stating my opinion based on my experience. As far as me being a know-nothing, well... that's your opinion. You don't even know me.

So let's see, when exactly were you in USAF? And when did you get out?

>>If you really want to know: Aug 12, 1981- Jul 11, 1996. I still work on an AFB, but as a civilian (engineer).

C.J.:Answer if you dare...
>>This is the last time I'm going to reply to these childish taunts, I've got better things to do with my time.


Posts: 369 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Brister
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posted 04-13-2000 06:52 AM     Profile for Brister   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Basher,

Hi from a fellow ex USAF/F-15 troop from PA. I grew up in NE PA.

Hey Turbo,

The “Whispering Death” was the jet I got my 3 incentive rides in. Lot’s of fun for sure.

The highlight of all 3 for me was the TF letdown from 14,000 feet to 200, HOTAS (Hands OFF throttle and stick). Talk about your pucker factor, sitting right next to the pilot who has his hands in his lap while this jet is hurtling straight down (at least it felt that way to me) to the water, through the weather, at ridiculous speed.

Poke through the weather and see nothing but water (North Sea), the airplane pulls itself out of the dive right on the money at 200 ft. I’m s*****n a brick by now. A quick dash at 200 feet (or less) and he drops his practice bombs, missing his target by about half a mile. I would have laughed if I wasn’t holding on for dear life.

Then the real fun begins, egressing the target we do a 90-degree turn still low over the water. Rock & Roll baby! We’re having fun now! Next thing I know, at the same time I see this black blur go by the left side of the cockpit, my pilot yells (yes yells, which I know is a bad sign) BIRD!! while hurling expletives and asking me “did you see that?” Yeah right! While I’m sitting there waiting to be blasted off and see if this cockpit really will instantly turn me into a sailor and make like a boat.

I’m just a little busy keeping my eyes glued to the master caution and engine instruments, while trying to press my back through the seat and tighten my straps to answer right now thanks!

Yep pucker factor of about 12 on a scale of one to ten! Luckily it missed us and the rest was uneventful. But being an AR/Crash Recovery troop I was acutely aware of what can happen when Aerospace Vehicle meets “semi solid foreign object” at a high rate of speed. Definately ruin your day in a hurry.

Brister


Posts: 62 | From: | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged

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