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Author Topic: Would you pay more for sims?
Member # 3677

posted 03-21-2000 06:23 AM     Profile for AndyC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I have been following the forums here for about 12 months and notice a difference of opinion between what we the simmer wants and what they the developer delivers.

In the first instance people always complain that this needs to be added, I dont like that etc. Then comes the stability of the sim, F4 a prime example. There are numerous things that the simmer wants done but doesnt seem to get. We then come in here and blast the developer.

On the other hand we hear that the developer must release the product so they can make thier money back on the project. So we get a product sometimes half finnished but at best not yet ready. Developers then complain that there is no money to be made in the sim business, Hasbro a case in point, because sales are low. The reason sales are low is because people take the unfinnished sim back and then the company looses money.

So the get a straw poll the question is this: If the developers develop a game fully, i.e. F4 as it is now, would you the simmer be prepared to pay more? If so how much 50%, 100%? If not why not?

I think this is a valid point at the moment with the diminishing amount of teams developing new sims. We all want to see and use new sims but will we pay for it?

Airline simulator is an example of giving a niche in the market what they wanted but charging them twice as much for the privelige.

I am not in the sim busines, and have nothing to gain here, but think if I get what I want I am prepared to pay a bit more for it.

That should set the cat among the pidgeons.


Posts: 64 | From: Austria | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Member # 961

posted 03-21-2000 07:51 AM     Profile for Gel214th   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Exactly HOW much more difficult is it to create a Flight Simulator than any of the other types of games?

Hw much more should we have to pay?
These games are so complex that when they are releasd, there WILL be bugs.

Are we willing to pay 100US for a high classed Combat Flight Simulator? Say an X-Plane but with Combat?

Hmm..for something like that I may put out the cash..but I am telling you that MANY people would not.

And if you go that route then the Niche market will REMAIN a niche market, and have fewer customers..

I say the challenge is to create a Combat Flight Simulator GAME the embodies the concepts of the Hardcore Flight Sim, and yet has the options and the flexibility to appeal to the newbie or mid-level gamer as well, who wants the aspects of a GAME to be included in their flight sim.

I think that the Janes simulations come really close to this, as well as those sims that model the newer aircraft like the F22, perhaps the SU35 etc. who's avionics and systems are designed to be easy to use, and to take the load off the pilot.

Whether we will in fact benefit from higher prices for Combat Flight Simulators though..remains to be seen :-\

Any thoughts on this?

214th Annihilators

Posts: 135 | From: Trinidad | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 2325

posted 03-21-2000 11:26 AM     Profile for DuckofPrey   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
IF the sim has extreme realism, FM, avionics, graphics, I may be persuaded for about US$100
Posts: 95 | From: | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jedi Master
Member # 3223

posted 03-23-2000 03:19 PM     Profile for Jedi Master   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Anyone remember Back to Baghdad?
Extreme realism, FM, avionics, and pretty decent graphics, for $100.
Too bad they left out the most important thing, as remarked by Gordon Berg in his flight sim column in CGW: gameplay.
If it's not fun, why bother? Then it's a procedures trainer useful to someone who's going to do it in Real Life (TM) but not to someone looking for some relaxation after work.
While I only enjoy the more realistic flight sims nowadays, the MOST enjoyment I ever had from ANY sim came from one F-19 by MPS. I ran it on a 8086 w/512K RAM, a pair of 360k 5.25" floppy drives (no HD), and CGA graphics. Frame rate was maybe 10fps at the best of times. And I played that thing non-stop for YEARS. Not till I got a 386/25, right around when CYAC and SWOTL (soon followed by F3.0) came out, did I stop.
If a sim comes along again that I enjoy THAT MUCH, while also providing the things that F4, F-15, F/A-18, F2, etc do, I'd gladly pay $150! Because it's not just the cost, it's the value.
Would anyone here pay $30,000 for a Yugo? I didn't think so. Would anyone here pay $30,000 for a brand new Ferrari/Lamborghini/etc? You bet we would!
I use the movie model. For a matinee showing it costs $5 for 2 hours entertainment (roughly). That's $2.50/hr. So for a $50 game, if you get more than 20 hours out of it, you're ahead of the game! A $100 sim should guarantee 40 hours.
If you just rent instead, that's $3 or $1.5/hr. So 33 hours for a $50 game, 67 hours for a $100 game. $150 for 100 hours of play. "Arcade" games, real ones, are far more expensive. Up to $1 for maybe 10 minutes? Maybe less? No bargain there.
How about the fact that in 10 years the average price of pc games has DROPPED? I spent $70 for F-19, $65 for F3, over $50 for the great WWII sims of the early 90's like SWOTL, CYAC, Aces series, etc. Most now come out at $39.99, with $49.99 being the exception not the rule. Combine that with more complex programming and a demand for programs that just do more, no wonder the companies lose money. They need more sales.

Our solution is clear--we must get everyone we know interested in flight sims! Have a computer and only use it for solitaire? Is your intelligence higher than the average Quake-head who thinks about nothing but how many kills per minute can be scored? Ever thought about bombing Nazis? Shooting down Russians? Games that require thought, skill, strategy, a love of flying...and the urge to knock that obnoxious little jerk out of the sky before he even knows you're there.
The Jedi Master

Posts: 477 | From: Coral Springs, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged

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