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Author Topic: Which is better DISH or Janes?
Snake
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posted 03-07-2000 04:52 PM     Profile for Snake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't want to start a flame war I just might be buying one of them soon and would like to know which one is better. I have a new system and I prefer hardcore over fun.
Thanks
Snake

Posts: 144 | From: Cork, Ireland | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Not-a-groundpounder
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posted 03-07-2000 05:15 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Me too!

What's good online source(s) to buy FA-18, DISH, and F4 at best price?


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Fishbed77
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posted 03-07-2000 08:05 PM     Profile for Fishbed77   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Try E-bay. I saw DISH there for $25.00
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Shotgun
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posted 03-07-2000 08:28 PM     Profile for Shotgun   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, I'm having a hard time choosing. JF/A18 has killer avionics and an excellent flight model. DISH has the killer detail on the carrier deck. I like to start each mission parked and run through the whole sequence from start-up, taxi, and launch. JF/A18 has a really visible "meatball" and great control AI in the recovery pattern. The LSO is not such a pain as in DISH.

Many people complained about the terrain in DISH, but I have to turn the detail down in JF/A18 to get a flyable(for me)framerate, so that turned out to be a wash. I'm running a PIII 600 w/VD3500.

Right now I'd give the edge to JF/A18 because it's slightly more "hard-core". But, DISH is so smooth at high details and I just can't get enough of that carrier deck...

Shotgun


Posts: 199 | From: Oklahoma City, OK USA | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 03-07-2000 09:18 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just want to add to Shotgun,

DISH has no campaign and no mission builder, just a bunch of single missions. Also only deathmatch multiplay in DISH.

Jane's has full co-op multiplay, allowing to fly both single missions as well as the campaign. And it has a powerful mission builder and campaign builder.

To show that I'm not bashing DISH for the sake of it, a neat detail unique to DISH is the loss of control you experience in G-LOC situations.

I would describe DISH as a midcore sim trimmed towards gameplay, with some great features and lacking some important features.
Jane's nearly has it all, plus it's truly hardcore.

Note, I didn't say one is better than the other!


Blaze


Posts: 1556 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JA
unregistered

posted 03-07-2000 09:55 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I haven't played DISH but JF/A-18 certainly delivers the goods in terms of avionics/ordnance and its incredibly detailed mission builder. The environmental effects (lighting, weather) are very good, too. Framerates are an issue, even on high-end systems, but I have heard that that is the case with DISH as well. DISH is, however, reputed to have a superb 2D cockpit, a feature I was dismissive of until I downloaded Paul Wilson's remarkable wide-view 2D Falcon 4.0 cockpit.
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Boxcar
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posted 03-08-2000 01:31 AM     Profile for Boxcar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well here is my "present opinion" of both, presently residing on my hard drive. I love most combat flight sims they all seem to appeal to me in one way or another.
I would like to add one more contender to the pack.....Flanker 2.
I`ll rate them numerically, 1 being best, 2 second, etc. O.K. here goes but remember this is my "present" impressions!
(1) (2) (3)
Flight Model: F2 JFA-18 DISH
Object Model: DISH F2 JFA-18
Terrain GFX : F2 JFA-18 DISH
Weather and
Atmosphere : JFA-18 DISH F2
Carrier OPs : DISH JFA-18 F2
Avionics : JFA-18 F2 DISH/NO IFR
Cockpit : DISH JFA-18 F2
Weapon model: JFA-18 DISH F2
Padlocking : F2 DISH JFA-18
Comms : JFA-18 DISH F2
Enemy AI : JFA-18 F2 DISH
Missions : JFA-18 DISH F2
Mission,
Builder : F2 JFA-18 DISH/Pending
Interface : JFA-18 DISH F2
GamePlay : JFA-18 DISH F2
External,
Views : JFA-18 F2 DISH
Manual : DISH JFA-18 F2
FPS at max,
Detail : DISH F2 JFA-18
My opinion so far. Janes seems to have some interesting add-ons, missions and skins available. The overall immersion wins hands down over...except of course...F4. The campain is not dynamic but has more to offer in terms of playability. DISH`s Support and 3rd party add-ons seem non existent despite the promised "dynamic campaign". DISH has a nice feel to it and does grow on you if you don`t mind minimal terrain graphics. Dusk, Night, Dawn and weather make up for it. And of course the carrier ops rule!
If your into crisp graphics with oustanding "flight model" then F2 rules. The air to ground is lacking but air to air is excellent. 32 bit high res serves up a stunning visual in F2. Rumour is that add-ons and follow-up campaign with additional aircraft are pending.

Boxcar


Posts: 317 | From: Vancouver,B.C.,Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shotgun
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posted 03-08-2000 09:34 AM     Profile for Shotgun   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Boxcar is right on, I believe. Wish I had said that

Shotgun


Posts: 199 | From: Oklahoma City, OK USA | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
buz13
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posted 03-08-2000 01:11 PM     Profile for buz13   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Blaze: The add here for Superhornet here says it has three full dynamic campaigns....you say there is none....anyone know the real truth????
Posts: 385 | From: Seattle, WA USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 03-08-2000 05:26 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't know that ad but if at all it is about the planned "Gold" release later this year, which is supposed to have some sort of dynamic campaign.

In its current release the game has just a bundle of scripted scripted missions.
That's why the game IMO classifies as an extended demo, which you have to pay full price for ...


Blaze

[This message has been edited by Blaze (edited 03-08-2000).]


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Jon
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posted 03-08-2000 05:38 PM     Profile for Jon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Boxcar,

Just out of curiousity, what is your reason for rating the F2 mission builder ahead of the JFA-18 builder?


Jon


Posts: 135 | From: Rochester, NY USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Medway
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posted 03-08-2000 07:57 PM     Profile for Medway   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
DISH is much more than just a demo that you pay full price for. I will be interested in the campaing addon- but I feel like I got my money's worth easily with what they've included in this so called "demo"
Posts: 182 | From: Orlando, FL USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
JA
unregistered

posted 03-08-2000 10:08 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Again, I haven't tried DISH yet, but over the last day or two I've jumped back into JF/A-18, after becoming temporarily bored with F2, F4, MA, and EAW. Also, I downloaded Texfix 2.5, Planefix, the GTT cockpit, and a number of voice-over training missions by Bob Tullman and Jon Biggs...wow! The grand traditions of the visual arts in France continues! Texfix 2.5 has brought this sim alive visually like I would not have believed! Used in conjunction with Planefix and the GTT cockpit, all of JF/A-18's visual problems are solved to my satisfaction, except for framerates...although, between the gorgeous environments, the unbelievably detailed and fully functioning avionics/weapons, and dynamic environment, I don't notice the (relatively) slow performance - and I am a framerate nut. The aforementioned voice-over training missions are really terrific - they make complicated systems and functions accessible in a direct and interactive way. To anyone who is considering buying this sim, or has recently bought it, don't judge it based on 20 minutes experience in Instant Action chasing MiG-29s - this sim has so much to offer (I don't believe I have done more than scratch the surface), but you need to patiently experiment and work with it. The result is extremely rewarding and involving in a number of ways. Anyhow, that's my rave for today.
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Boxcar
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posted 03-08-2000 11:23 PM     Profile for Boxcar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
To Jon, I rate the F2 mission builder above JFA-18 for the following "bias" reasons.

To begin with it does have a steeper learning curve than Janes or DISH`s non-existent and "PROMISED" mission builder.
The high res map which is subject to desk top resolution is superior to Janes. It includes more features and "technical applications" for flights and load-outs. It simply offers more and is a classier more proffesional mission builder in my opinion. Now I know some say it is "broken" but I believe this is because of sensitive "AI" issues that are not understood. Don`t get me wrong, I think Janes is a very good mission builder butI find it hard to take seriously because of it`s arcadey and choppy low res look. I guess I`ve been there with F-15....you know what I mean?

If I can say this about DISH`s mission screen.....it leaves something to be desired. I they were smart they would be monitoring this forum in order to improve the pending "GOLD" version. I don`t no why it got such a bad wrap to begin with because the more I log time in DISH the more I like it and keep hoping they improve it.
F4 is done, Mig Alley is done, JFA is done, F2 is maturing with pending patch and rumoured add-ons and DISH...well who knows. If DISH gets there act together(provided they have the funds) and fixes and tweaks an already "diamond in the rough". Then provides the promised mission builder and dynamic campaign then watch the mass EXODUS of all the Die-hard Janes fans!

Boxcar


Posts: 317 | From: Vancouver,B.C.,Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 03-09-2000 12:54 AM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As for the Exodus, I doubt it.
Even with a dynamic campaign DISH will be a mid-core sim, not exactly what "Die-hard Janes fans" are looking for.

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Boxcar
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posted 03-09-2000 11:45 PM     Profile for Boxcar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hmmm....If I can recall there once was a Die-Hard Janes F-15 Exodus to Falcon 4 when it arrived. Trust me as good as JFA is, its so-called campaign and redundant missions will wear thin long before DI`s tweaked Campaign Version is available. Then they will all look to fill the void!

Boxcar


Posts: 317 | From: Vancouver,B.C.,Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 03-10-2000 01:01 AM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Bender says "Dream on, skin tube!"
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Barron
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posted 03-12-2000 09:51 AM     Profile for Barron   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Here is another review where this guy mentions some unforgivable shortcomings of JFA-18.
Things like inadequate keystroke docs, Inconsistant workings with the avionics, Training missions/docs, etc. We hope that these things will be patched but I wonder how much of an effort Janes will put into fixing all of these outages. They typically release one patch and move on. Hopefully, it will be a super patch. They got a lot right with this sim but after reading this review, it just seems they ran out of time.

If DISH developers play their cards right, maybe they can take the lead with a heavly revamped dynamic-campaign equipped sim. Anyway here it is: http://www.furballmag.com/default.asp?article=gandalf/fa18_review.asp

Barron out


Posts: 392 | From: Greenville, North Carolina, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jackal
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posted 03-12-2000 10:28 AM     Profile for Jackal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Geeez, unforgivable shortcomings in Janes F/A 18 ? Look at the patch readme, posted in the F/A 18 Forum. They are listening and improving their sim.
Have you already completed an air-to-air mission in DISH ? Facing 10+ targets all showing in glowing red on your radar display ? This is just one example, my list of "unforgivable" shortcomings would be considerably longer for DISH than for Janes F/A 18.
Mass exodus to DISH, what a joke ! With the mission and campaign builder and probably lot of stuff to come, Janes F/A 18 is a masterpiece for a long time. And I'm not a diehard Janes fan, I don't care for the company who made it. As long it's good.

Jackal


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Medway
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posted 03-12-2000 05:12 PM     Profile for Medway   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Jackal,

You sure you got that right about the red a-a radar contacts? I think the only red ones are on pre-briefed enemy ground targets.


Posts: 182 | From: Orlando, FL USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Blaze
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posted 03-12-2000 07:11 PM     Profile for Blaze   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What a retard there at furballmag.com, on a public forum such an article would be considered a troll. Of his complaints, maybe 5% are valid, the rest goes into the RTFM category.

Edit: Sorry for the name calling, I was a little too harsh.

[This message has been edited by Blaze (edited 03-13-2000).]


Posts: 1556 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blond_Knight
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posted 03-12-2000 08:53 PM     Profile for Blond_Knight     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah I read the review also, and he seemed pretty negative to me too.

266 at medium details....Hoo-ahh!


Posts: 1093 | From: Richmond Va - Capital of the Confederacy | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Blond_Knight
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posted 03-13-2000 04:43 AM     Profile for Blond_Knight     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Blaze, Im reading gandalf's reply and your counter reply. Where do they get these guys from? Are we supposed to cower down because of their awesome knowledge of sims? I think he's splitting hairs.

Drag him left!


Posts: 1093 | From: Richmond Va - Capital of the Confederacy | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
JayP
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posted 03-13-2000 11:21 AM     Profile for JayP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This review can be summarized very concisely:

I love Falcon 4 so much I'm not willing to give any other sim a chance.

It's true that not all the features of F/A-18 are well documented, but it is obvious that he never took the time or the trouble to figure them out.


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Blond_Knight
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posted 03-13-2000 01:46 PM     Profile for Blond_Knight     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I believe your right Jayp, I remember all the flaming that went on in the F-18 forum right after the game was released, now Ive got it, love it, so why do so many people seem to have such a hardon for this sim?
Posts: 1093 | From: Richmond Va - Capital of the Confederacy | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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