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Author Topic: Jet Warrior - Vietnam
IAFguy
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posted 01-07-2000 12:49 AM     Profile for IAFguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Anybody knows anything?

Where, how deep, and when?

I have a dream… and it’s as deep as Falcon 4 with a dynamic ground war in Vietnam ,
give me my phantom and my napalm because I love the smell of it…


Posts: 19 | From: NYC,USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
jk
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posted 01-07-2000 07:00 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i'm confused with this game does it have any single player or is it multi only? it looks great.
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Mnemonic
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posted 01-08-2000 02:23 AM     Profile for Mnemonic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well Kesmai, the developer, has its "headquaters" I guess you could say in my city, Charlottesville, VA.
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Jerry
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posted 01-08-2000 04:56 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
jk,
Looks great?!! Are there screen shots posted anywhere?

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jk
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posted 01-08-2000 02:11 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i rember seeing some screenshots somehwere and i thought there was an article from combatsim on it, but i can't find it. The article might have screen shots
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jk
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posted 01-08-2000 06:03 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
does anyone know when the game is gonna be out? I have seen previews since IAF came out
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Jerry
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posted 01-09-2000 06:10 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No jk, all they had here was the box art from AW3.
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Rick.50cal
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posted 01-09-2000 06:54 PM     Profile for Rick.50cal     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Vaporware......


at least as far as I'm concerned. There was a lot of interviews over a year ago, but nothing since. No screenshots EVER. (there was 1 pic that went with the interviews, but that was not a screenshot)

No special previews, no "I was invited but can't talk about it" news : no sim....

------------------
Rick.50cal


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BoneDome
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posted 01-09-2000 07:10 PM     Profile for BoneDome   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I don't think the lack of screenshots or info is anything to go on.
Just look at the way we treat developers who are gracious enough to give us loads of details months (even years) before a product is released.
It wouldn't surprise me if they released the sim and THEN started the hype (actually, that seems to me to be the smart thing to do!)

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Major Tom
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posted 01-09-2000 08:48 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There was a screenshot put up on PCME just before it went under.

I've seen it a couple other places, it looked promissing. Lets not call it vaporware just yet.

Anyone from Combatsim got anything to say bout this?


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jk
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posted 01-09-2000 10:46 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i swore i saw some screen shots, there was one that was a thud flying low over the sea with a hill or big rock in the back.
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Mage
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posted 01-10-2000 03:56 PM     Profile for Mage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry Rick.50cal, but you are incorrect. There were not what I would call a LOT of inteviews (only 2 that I remember). There was a screenshot posted, created using our new engine (the Thud being chased by a Rhino over water). There have been no special previews, and nobody has seen anything, excepting the folks that went to the Air Warrior Convention last year in Dallas (who saw some hardcopies of screen shots). It takes time to develop a brand new 3D engine, as well as a brand new flight model, etc. We have never published an expected release date, or even an expected date to start alpha or beta testing. Vaporware? No, I don't think so =)

~Mage


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Mage
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posted 01-10-2000 04:06 PM     Profile for Mage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
For those that have NOT seen the two interviews about "Air Warrior: Vietnam", check here:
http://www.dogfighter.com/interviews/show.php3?interview=936903110
(this one has the screen shot, and yes, it *is* a screen shot, using our 3D engine)
http://www.dogfighter.com/interviews/show.php3?interview=933473264
(this one has a plane list, which was/is subject to change still<g> )

~Mage


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Major Tom
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posted 01-10-2000 04:43 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Funny, I saw a screenshot with a couple of F-4's over a fog filled jungle once.
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Big Makk Attakk
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posted 01-11-2000 07:50 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Major Tom I saw that too. What? Two years ago almost???
That in no way was a screen shot even if it had been called one. It was an obvious artistic rendition.
Is there anything out there besides the standard producer rhetoric spiel to show the public?
Thought not

Big Makk


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Mage
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posted 01-11-2000 08:32 AM     Profile for Mage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Major Tom,
I remember that image, and if I remember correctly, it was not an actual screen shot.

Your not getting any info, or any "spiel" on the product because it's being played very close to the vest. If you read the interview with Quarters, you should find out one of the reasons. *No* information is being given out about this sim to anybody that is not on the development team - even in house.

And no, it was not 2 years ago that it started being discussed =)

~Mage


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Major Tom
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posted 01-11-2000 10:05 AM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It's probably a good idea that they don't release more than the bare bones information before the initial release.


I'd hate to see this sim get flamed before it's even released. Flaming after a release is just fine, if it deserves it. Which I dont think it will personally.


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Mage
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posted 01-15-2000 06:53 AM     Profile for Mage   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
New interview went up Yesterday:
http://www.dogfighter.com/interviews/show.php3?interview=947848206

~Mage


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JimG
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posted 01-15-2000 08:08 AM     Profile for JimG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for the info Mage. Looks like my kind of sim.
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Sargon 1
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posted 01-15-2000 09:06 AM     Profile for Sargon 1     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Something looks wrong with this picture, but I don't know what. It's probably just me.

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jk
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posted 01-15-2000 04:28 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Terrain looks similar to AW3. Water looks a little better though
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Major Tom
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posted 01-15-2000 05:01 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I think that screenshot is a render, rather than something from the actual game.
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Major Tom
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posted 01-15-2000 05:11 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just read that pre-preview. Hot dog, looks like Jet Warrior Vietnam is gonna be THE sim. I like it that the folks at Kesmai are building their new engine from the ground up. Hopefully they are learning from the pitfalls others have made in the world of combatsims and get a really good sim together.

I'd like to see this one going head to head with some kind of MiG Alley Carrier opps sequel.


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Skoonj
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posted 01-15-2000 09:01 PM     Profile for Skoonj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The picture looks odd to me too. The planes are both in a right bank. Possibly a turn, but not necessarily. The F-4 looks closer to me than the other aircraft (F-105?). If that's the case, the F-105 is UNDER the nose of the F-4, an unsafe condition. Also, while the F-105 is in camouflage paint, the F-4 is gray. Surely that is incorrect.

Skoonj

------------------
Excelsior, Fathead!
--Jean Shepherd



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Major Tom
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posted 01-15-2000 09:31 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It's a naval F-4.
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Skoonj
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posted 01-16-2000 08:20 AM     Profile for Skoonj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Did US Navy F-4s retain gray in Viet Nam? I don't recall.

Skoonj

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Excelsior, Fathead!
--Jean Shepherd



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Dead Eye
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posted 01-16-2000 09:13 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

If I did not know better I'd say there were two planes of different resolutions in that screen shot. The 105 is much more defined that the F4. Or maybe it is a cut and paste job....

Nice interview. Too bad it had nothing to really say.

Eye


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Aaron
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posted 01-16-2000 12:36 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Could it be that the 105's shadow is bigger than the 105? and where is the shadow for the F-4?

The shadow indicates some serious low level flying but the terrain doesn't look the correct size for that altitude but it is hard to tell just how big the islands are suppost to be.


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Obi Offiah
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posted 01-16-2000 07:21 PM     Profile for Obi Offiah   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Although I had quite few sims before Flight of the Intruder, that was the one that took flight sims to another level for me. It offer a depth that had not been present in previous sims and really got me into naval aircraft operations. I learnt alot from it and Stephen Coonts great Flight of the Intruder novel that accompanyed it. It's quite exciting to know that there is a Vietnam era sim in production, especially one which will include the Intruder and Phantom, the two aircraft avaliable in Spectrum Holobyte's Flight of the Intruder. I'am looking forward to learning more about Air Warrior: Vietnam in particular the level of depth at which Kesmai is planning to model the aircrafts avionics.

Obi Offiah


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JimG
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posted 01-16-2000 09:53 PM     Profile for JimG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The plane colors are right...the Thud is a F-105D (one seater) and the Phantom is either a USN F-4B or F-4J. Both Navy/USMC Phantoms did not have internal cannons...the USAF F-4E did, however. The internal cannon was later installed in the USN/USMC F-4S.
From what I can see, they look pretty good...maybe as good as those in Janes USAF.

BTW, I don't think I'd want to be fishing in that water...looks a little like typhoon season to me.


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Major Tom
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posted 01-16-2000 11:01 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You know what, I never did purchase Flight of the Intruder. What was it like?
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jk
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posted 01-17-2000 01:59 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hmmmm, i don't rember posting anything about AW3, i guess it's time to register. Does anyone know how complex the Radar and Flight models would be?
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Major Tom
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posted 01-17-2000 03:21 AM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
They dont seem to want a lot of BVR things going on so I'd assume that the radar and systems modeling will be very realistic. The team at Kesmai seems hell bent on forcing people into dogfights through extensive realism in the aircraft systems.

Personally, I cant wait to get into the cockpit of an F-8 and F-105D.

I wonder if they will have the early USAF silver paint scheme's in the game.

I do hope they let us fly A-7's in Jet Warrior: Vietnam. It'd be kind of a let down to only be able to fly one of Voughts wonderfull creations. I always did like the A-7 for some reason, I went out of my way to fly them whenever possible in US Navy Fighters.


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JimG
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posted 01-17-2000 07:15 AM     Profile for JimG   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Don't think we'll see the A-7 in this sim. From what I read, this sim is modeled after the "Rolling Thunder" campaign of 1965-1968 over N.Vietnam. I think the planes flyable and were also historically correct were:
F-4 (USN/USMC/USAF 5 different models), F-105D (maybe an F-105F/G for Wild Weasel), USN A-4, F-8 Crusader, MiG-17 (cannons only) and several MiG-21 variants with Atoll missiles and cannon. Still should be fun.

The real question will be how correct the placement of key historical targets are. This is one item that was fascinating about the USAF 'Nam map...it was geographically correct, but the key targets were missing or didn't look anything like the pictures. If Air Warrior places the targets in the right place, this could be a wonderful sim...just imagine flying in a plane that is modeled respectably, weapons done right and the targets, weather, times, routes are all historic. On your way to fulfill history!

Also, remember the USAF airbases were in Thailand so the flights were long and required in flight refueling. Once we drop bombs, we still have 300+ miles to fly back home.


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BoneDome
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posted 01-17-2000 07:38 AM     Profile for BoneDome   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
JimG,

Actually, only the Air Force ever had an internal gun. The F-4E and the German F-4F were the only Phantoms armed with a cannon.
Until the F-14 came along in `73, the F-8 was the only Navy fighter that could spit lead. Kinda stupid, huh?

BoneDome


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jk
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posted 01-17-2000 12:26 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
so if thier bent on making us dogfight will they include the Falcon(the Missle) on the early USAF F-4's?
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Major Tom
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posted 01-17-2000 04:25 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I thought the A-7 got into the action in 1966?

The only aircraft that where seriously spitting lead back in those days where the F-105, F-4E, MiG-17 and F-8. All other aircraft on either side of the map didn't have any gun armament.

Take the MiG-21 for instance, even when it had a gun armament, it barely held any ammo at all.

Even the russians seemingly wanted to take the fight BVR. The only planes really raking in the kills where gun nosed aircraft.

On a side note, who's going to be flying for the NVAF ???


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Fubar
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posted 01-17-2000 06:32 PM     Profile for Fubar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I dont wanna sound too obsessed but here is my two cents...

The F-4B (USN/USMC) had no internal cannon
The F-4J (USN/USMC) had an internal connon
The F-4C (USAF) had no cannon
The F-4E USAF Did

The F-4S/N also did but they didn't enter service till the early 70s.

Also i read somewhere that the reason the f-105 and f-8 had more kills in Nam than the Phantom is because the North Vietnamese could see the large amount of smoke generated by the F-4s twin J79s and didnt send migs to intercept. I guess they knew how good the Phantom was and saved them for AAA and SAMS.


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Fubar
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posted 01-17-2000 06:48 PM     Profile for Fubar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Is it true that you can be the WSO/RIO in AW: Vietnam? I used to love playing LongBow 2 with a backseater.
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Major Tom
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posted 01-17-2000 07:58 PM     Profile for Major Tom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
-Fubar
More F-4's where shot down by MiG's than any other aircraft.

The F-4J had no internal cannon. The only US phantom with an internal was the F-4E. I believe the C/D/J models could carry the cannon pod, but had no internal one.

Hmm...I wonder if I could get upwards of 3 cannon pods on an F-4D.

Was the B model phantom able to carry the gun pod?

Oh, and you will get to fly the Bear/WSO/RIO position on US aircraft in Jet Warrior: Vietnam. It should be interesting, being that the volume of people on Air Warrior is very high. I bet I could find more than enough people that would like doing the backseater job.

Heck, I wouldn't mind doing it myself.

From what I've been reading, the only F-4 to carry an internal cannon was the USAF F-4E. The A-7 is also has a unwelcome supprise for any MiG that overshoots it, it has a M61 internal cannon.


Posts: 1352 | From: Prescott, AZ | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged

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