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Author Topic: Question to anyone about SH..
tomcat
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Member # 425

posted 10-07-1999 03:18 PM     Profile for tomcat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I was just looking through the file '3dmodels.h'in the 3ddata directory of the SH demo, and found a lot of objects listed. Does this mean this could be taken as a good indicator of the units that will be in the final version? I found some cool stuff, so I hope it does. DDG_ARLEIGH_BURKE_CLASS, EA_6B_PROWLER, E_2C_HAWKEYE_II, SEAHAWK, S3,
CVN_76_USS_RONALD_REAGAN_APPROX_1, TICONDEROGA_CG_MAIN,DDG_ARLEIGH_BURKE_CLASS,
MARSHALLER_BATON, CVN_R_STARBOARD_ELEVATOR,CVN_R_WEAPS_ELEV_HATCH, F_14A_TOMCAT, ROMEO_CLASS_SUB_APPROX_3. Tons of other stuff, but that's what I found interesting.. 'S3' didn't have Viking attatched to it, but hopefull it still meant the Hoover. It'd be cool to see ordnance/aircraft elevators in use too. And always with the F-14 _A_'s.. why can't they use D's more often? Or A,B &D? I'd like to have F-14's, the other jets be te best possible, but it must be because of the disproportionate #'s of As vs B/D Tomcats..
So could this list be taken seriously? Anyone know? Thanks.

Posts: 298 | From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada JCN:strafe_rag | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Vector
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Member # 463

posted 10-12-1999 05:27 AM     Profile for Vector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Who cares about the damn tomcats man? You wont be able to fly em and unless you get a small number of the SH's I dont see a reason to use them either! (hmm, maybe as sacrificial scouts... SAM sponges, decoys...)

------------------
-Vector, Flight Sim Enthusiast


Posts: 903 | From: Comox, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Kurt Plummer
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Member # 358

posted 10-12-1999 03:02 PM     Profile for Kurt Plummer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Vector,

Funny that you should mention decoys since the Turkey is currently the only viable high-speed, high altitude, platform for a lot of TALD profiles at-range.

Right Now, the Tomcat has _the best_ targeting FLIR in the fleet if not the U.S. Armed Forces. It also has TCS/IRST which -no- other aircraft in the entire forces does and which gives you another bandwidth for 'certain elements' of the A/G mission.

With digiTARPS and the backseater 'VHS' mods it also has _the best_ optical recce with 'immediate soonest' relay back to the command echelon. Anywhere.

The D is important because of the engines and hopefully because it will get the DFCS mods first (lasts longest, the 14A/B may not even go to 2005 if the Super Bug doesn't splatter on too many admiral's windscreens).

And because it /already has/ a JTIDS type datalink option which, together with the EOID apertures, makes it the 'safest' deconflicter in threat-air sweeps out there.

You push more weight than you have thrust with all-outside gas on a /straight/ wing and you see how long you last in a supersonic missile fight.

The Tom already has the gas to outleg most threats and is /very fast/. As fast as an Eagle on it's best day and faster than most threat air stripped to the paint. Depending on the weapon load, I would bet that this 'extends' to the S-Bug as well.

Because of the shortrange, slow speed, thing; a Bug has to fight almost every threat it meets, head on. This eats severely into it's more-pylon 'advantage'.

A Tom can work around most things and while the APG-71 hasn't got any really good A/G modes and the AWG virtually none, the former at least could be changed, low cost. Most missions are 'preplanned' through the GPS/optics and terrain referance landmarks anyway.

If the 14 is ever given HARM and AMRAAM and a decent EW/MAWS/Towed system it will likely be able to steamroll over that which mission needs say it cannot evade.

Simply put, the U.S. needs no more 16/18 sextoys but could -really use- some 'naval' 15E's. With updated selfdefence and with 'Joint' PTOD weapon targeting capabilities.

The Super Tom was all that, and /could still be that/, in small numbers.

The bug is an attack aircraft in search of a 'multirole' justification.

We should have bought more Toms and stepped on the Stink Bug in it's cocoon. It ain't never gonna be a butterfly and USN has effectively given up the deep OPP mission with it's 'successful' adoption. A mission they likely won't ever get back.

USAF now 'rules the world', whoohoo, when they get there...:`(


Kurt, The Bug Basher...


Posts: 672 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
tomcat
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posted 10-12-1999 06:02 PM     Profile for tomcat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Couldn't agree more, Kurt P.!! I love F-14's, and it's nice to hear from someone who's not ready to dump on 'em... Vector, Flight Sim Enthusiast, judging from previous posts seems to always be ready to dump on Tomcats. I, as a _serious_ aviation fan, take offence to him cutting up my favorite airframe. I've always had an interest in USN CVN Air, and the F-14 in particular. Crapping on Turkeys all the time makes him look like he's a fad-type person when it comes to planes, -F/A-18E/F's are the sh*t, F-15? Man, they SUCK! F-22s are my fav!- blah blah...They probably are a better jet than F-14's, but only 'cause they're newer, and that's no reason to dump on a great plane, just because it's older. Surely nobody who had any clue about aviation would put P-51's down, so maybe Vector, Flight Sim Enthusiast shouldn't put down the F-14. Which, IF I'm not mstaken, will be the longest serving USN fighter in history by the time they're all retired. Yep, that sounds like an aircraft which should be used as targets to me, what a crappy jet...In conclusion, quit putting down F-14's, if you were a real plane fan, you'd know better. Thanks for the defence help, K.P.
Posts: 298 | From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada JCN:strafe_rag | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Spins_321
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Member # 163

posted 10-12-1999 07:01 PM     Profile for Spins_321   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Kurt,
I wanna put something to you, something to think about. Now, I'm a Marine, stationed with a Hornet squadron. I love the Hornet, I know alot about the Hornet. If it's within it's range, a Hornet is beast at what it does, and I think it's best at it's CAS/INTERDICTION role and strike capabilities, with the added security that you can fight almost anyone out there if you have to.
But, from it's inception, the Tomcat has had the potential to be THE greatest all round aircraft that ever flew, because designers went with alot of design decisions that I believe were ahead of there time. You mentioned a few... cause of the ROE limitations in 'Nam, the designers said NEVER again with the TCS telavision. They realized that defense of a carrier fleet is too essential for all parties concerned, the Turkey in the air, the other birds performing missions elsewhere, the 10,000 or so people in the strike fleet, so they implemented the datalink system with the E-2... Now, the D takes all that further.
I'd hate to scream conspiracy, but I'd have to say the Air Force has alot to do with this. Constantly manuevering to funnel funds from the Navy, the Air Force has wanted to eliminate the Navy's air role for YEARS... hell, if they could, they would eliminate the Sea role totally also. The F-14 is a major threat to Air Force programs. The Tomcat is not a super plane... but with some attention and money, the aircraft could be vitually unstoppable. The plane is not a bad turner... Sure, one MAY NOT be able to take on a basic Flanker, but it may not even GET to that point! The Turkey's reach could seriously degrade the ability for anyone to get close enough, and the Navy's advanced training tactics, which are still amongst the best in the world, would also ensure victory.

If the Tomcat had some money, we may not even be hearing about an F-22, maybe (doubtful though, cause the planes have always been there) even a Hornet 2000. The Air Force still think they can do everything from Omaha... shoot off a bunch of B-2's and F-117's and lay waste to who ever when ever. Maybe... but that's not how you fight and win all out, no holds barred war, as we've learned from Kosovo, and the Gulf.
The Tomcat may not have been THE all out answer, but it would have been a VERY important component in a complex puzzle of warfare.... Shame on the Air Force and shame on our government.

Semper Fly,
Spins


Posts: 89 | From: Odenton, MD, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jon
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posted 10-13-1999 07:12 AM     Profile for Jon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wasn't one of the key lawmakers in the "Kill the Tomcat" descision from the home state of McDonnell Douglas? I think Dick Cheney was in their back pocket too.

Long Live the Tomcat!


Posts: 135 | From: Rochester, NY USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Turbo
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Member # 209

posted 10-13-1999 10:00 AM     Profile for Turbo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
My .0002 cents. I'm not about to knock the world reknown Tomcat. An aircraft way ahead of it's time with superior structural design and a$$kickin' avionics (I have had the honor of seeing the radar in action before and it is impressive but it's like comparing apples and oranges if you want to compare it to the F-15's) it's shame that they didn't really take the F-14 program any further.
Posts: 369 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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