my profile | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
»  COMBATSIM.COM Forum Archive   » Game Discussions (Genre)   » Jets   » night vision

Author Topic: night vision

posted 09-25-1999 06:53 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've noticed that night vision in most sims looks exactly the same when used in the night or day, with just everything turning green. I'm no night vision expert, but wouldn't night vision used in the day look completely white or bright green, since the already bright image would be amplified like 5000x or whatever the number is. Bright flashes too when seen through night vision even at night should be blinding to the viewer, due to the extreme light amplification.

Is night vision really perfectly sharp? I would think that it would be somewhat blurrier then normal vision...

IP: Logged
Member # 172

posted 09-25-1999 09:20 PM     Profile for Rick.50cal     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well.... no, night vision is not perfectly sharp, but in newer versions its about like watching TV. There are also very light "snow" effect where individual fiber optics pick up a stray light ray and amplify it.

I have used some old 1st GEN, where you could not make out even a shape of a truck just 50 yards\meters in front of you, on a decent night. Other times I have used 2nd and 3rd Gen units in good working order and had amazing results, to the point of making out bullet marks on the side of a house 50 yards away!! (that was with the superb "Kite Sight", made by Pilkington I think). Another good one I have used is the PVS-7, which is a head mounted goggle, similar (but NOT the same) as the aviation goggles. It has good resolution, but don't try to pick out details at over 100 meters.

Aviator goggles these days have two intensifiers, in order to retain stereoscopic vision (see distance). Infantry goggles usually use a single intensifier that has either a single display (one eye) or split into two displays (two eyes but no depth perception).

Aircraft that are cleared for them and regularly use them in ops/trg are: Tornado GR.1 and GR.4, Harrier GR.7, upgraded A-10's , AH-1W Super Cobra, F/A-18D NightHornet (these goggles have mini-HUD's that you look through, and they look cool!), Jaguar, and the Euro-Phoon will have it too (if they ever field the thing).

If you have ever read accounts of ejetion, you know how violent that is. The extra weight on the head could snap your neck in 14-24 G incident. In order to be safe, these days a wire connects to the goggles which ditches the goggles into your lap or out of the way when you pull the ejection handle. Still, the extra weight is no small matter, since at 7 G's a 3 pound increase means 21 pounds extra that your neck muscles have to fight, in order to stay in the fight.

The most important thing for aviator NVG's is reducing weight for safety, fatigue and ACM, and that is why Sextant Avionique is making a "StarTrek" helmet for the Rafale.

Any more questions, I would be happy to answer!


Posts: 520 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 11

posted 09-25-1999 10:04 PM     Profile for FalconF1   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm sure newer night vision systems have a "limiter" on them for bright flashes and stuff.
Posts: 300 | From: NY,NY- USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 352

posted 09-25-1999 10:24 PM     Profile for Lucky_1   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Of all the sims I have played, I think LB2 had probably the best night vision so far. Using hardware acceleration, it had a fuzzy outline , and was not crystal clear. It wasnt perfect, but it looked pretty damn good.
Posts: 635 | From: Knoxville, TN. | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 172

posted 09-26-1999 01:04 AM     Profile for Rick.50cal     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
FalconF1, you are absolutely right, there are switches that turn off the electroptics, but if you open the aperature during dailight, you may damage the tube.

One thing that has not been modeled right yet is the fact that NVG's have very narrow field of vision, kinda like looking through toilet roll tubes.


Posts: 520 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 259

posted 09-26-1999 10:14 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Check out these screen shots from Empire's forth coming ENEMY ENGAGED: COMANCHE HOKUM.
WAIT until the "ECTS99" logo has loaded then click on the "ENEMY ENGAGED: COMANCHE HOKUM"
You will see pilots with NVG's on?

If players have Apache Havoc, the two games can be linked together, thereby allowing the
AH-64D Apache and the Mil-28-N Havoc B to be
flown either alongside or against the game’s
two new helicopters.

Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

posted 09-28-1999 10:53 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
A quick note about night vision. If you try and turn on night vision goggles during the day in real life (TM) you will burn them out or otherwise damage them.

All NVGs come with little caps that go over the lenses when not in use. If you ever take the littel cap off the front end and look at it, you will find a tiny pin hole. This little pin hole lets in just enough light so that you can turn on NVGs during the day (with the cap on) and look through them for test or maintenance purposes. Under those conditions you get the same green picture as night. Hope that helps.

IP: Logged

posted 09-28-1999 09:45 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

I work on the An/AVS-9D night vision goggles for my Special Operations helicopter squadron. They routinely fly at 100ft, while wearing these. The field of view, so far, was best modelled in Falcon 4.0. The field of view is approx. 30 degrees, but a set that has a panaramic view is currently being tested. As someone mentioned, sunlight will indeed burn out the intensifier tubes. And any bright flashes, will cause the goggles to shutdown for that split second. The only noticable flaw is that the goggles will get a sparkle effect when used in extremely dark nights, where the goggle will have to really work to draw in enough light to amplify it. I hope this has answered some questions.


IP: Logged
Member # 172

posted 09-28-1999 10:55 PM     Profile for Rick.50cal     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
From what I gather, old night vision was a lot more suceptible to damage from light than the current ones, but like you point out, they still can be damaged.


Posts: 520 | From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 49

posted 09-29-1999 04:18 AM     Profile for YnB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The nightvision used by the Marine in
Alien vs Predator is pretty cool...

Posts: 131 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

posted 09-29-1999 10:31 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
(True story)

The (British) Army had a check point set up beside a bridge over a road, after a while something unusual started to happen (occuring only on the darkest of nights i.e. no moon etc)
They'd would hear a roaring noise coming down the road passing under the bridge and dissapearing into the distance, this would occur about once a week.
Eventually they managed to shine a spotlight down from the bridge and found out what was making the noise, it was a black Porsche with tinted windows and it was doing at least 100mph with no headlights!
It stopped for a while and then started again, but this time they managed to stop the car, as it turned out it was trainee RAF pilots out learning how to use night vision goggles.

Safe, huh?

IP: Logged
Kurt Plummer
Member # 358

posted 09-29-1999 12:37 PM     Profile for Kurt Plummer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The Anvis-9's I think it is are the new 'Gen3.5' versions with semipanoram capabilities.

I read an article in an AvLeak in which Hawaii ANG F-15 pilots were using these both 'cooperatively' (with minimal slime light assist) and full-dark to maintain some semblance of the ACM formation keeping and aggressive intercept procedures. Worked okay on moonlit nights out to 500m I believe (may have been feet, I forget).

Not 'loose deuce' by /any/ means.

The Rafale/OSF and EF-2K/'PIRATE' go a step beyond this. While both pilot-helmets will come with at least the -option- of intensifiers built-in (buried to prevent aero-snap effect and maintain balance over the cervicals instead waaaay out thar on your chin); the display projectors for the HMD will also be able to use 'secondary' nav-project of 3-5u IRST data which is ten times or more better in both range and detail resolution.

The fact that we haven't had similar gear since about 1991 is simply due to a 'fiscal' inability to provide our forces with a proper helmet steered FLIR kit like the Falcon Knight or Falcon Eye systems when we could instead purchase trash like LANTIRN.

The FK/FE have been in-test at least that long and with the latter in particular you get not only the 'hot spot' effect of emmanative as opposed to 'gathered' (reflected) signature but a magX2/X4 option which allows you to ID targets like the C-130 at 4-5_nm_.

Day or Night that ain't half bad, certainly it renders all the NVG /crap/ we have today worthless by comparison. Athermals be hanged.

Lastly, it should be noted that before the dedicated cockpit lighting came along, pilots used to have to use the cracko-lume lightsticks with about 7-10 spaced around a cockpit whose normal, redlit, dials were totally blacked out with electricians tape.

The lightsticks are/were attached to the sidewalls and so forth with velcro sleeves containing little metal 'lantirn' (/not/ LANTIRN... headed cylinders projecting the light -just so- to illuminate the instruments and controls.

About halfway through an average CAP mission over The Boz, you'd have to start replacing these lightsticks and it was a real contortionists cartoon getting everything out of the flightbag, out of the sleeve, into the sleeve and (exhausted sticks) back
into the flight bag. And then 'retuning' the look angle of the sticks with NVGs all blurry.

Imagine how much thrill it would be if you had to eject with all that junk banging around on it's way out.

We are /so far/ behind the times...KP

Posts: 672 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

All times are MST (US)  

   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | COMBATSIM.COM Home

© COMBATSIM.COM, INC. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
Ultimate Bulletin Board 6.04b

© 2014 COMBATSIM.COM - All Rights Reserved