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Author Topic: Game developers don't owe us anything...
Mispunt
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posted 12-22-2000 04:13 AM     Profile for Mispunt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
And we don't owe them anything either...

It is funny how us sim players can be so affected by games that are still in development (me included, said sme nasty things about b17). It is like we feel they owe us something, sure they owe us a "working game" if you pay for it but nothing else really.
We all know by now that you should read reviews before buying and that most retailers have a return policy, so it's your own risk if you decide to buy a crappy release.
Nevertheless as soon as a company brings out some info on their game to be released, we all form our own camps and start bashing eachothers heads in as in why it must suck or why it's gotta be the best thing next to sliced bread.

The reason why crap productions are being released is because the PUBLISHERS know we will buy it anyway.....

Cheers


Posts: 182 | From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
RSColonel_131st
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posted 12-22-2000 06:14 AM     Profile for RSColonel_131st   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ur point is valid...there is only one thing where I can not agree. I can inform me about the features of a game and its general quality using reviews...but reviews in normal gaming mags tend to be writen by Quake3 freaks, and generaly show not the opinion of a real "simmer" about thsi game. Reviews in the net are okay, as long as they are true...and thats the point for B-17II here. They do not only owe us a working game, they also owe us a game with some of the features which was hyped to heaven. For example managment of the engines, cooling flaps, overheating all all those stuff; its on the homepage, on the box, in the mnaual...but it is not in the game. Thats the point people starts to get sour.

Also, most shops here dont have a return policy...and I guess, if u order it over the net, like many people have done it with this one, it might also be impossible to return it.

for this reason, if I make up my mind over a game using avalable info, and it comes donw to that the info is not true...I feel pissed. Well, B-17II is okay for me, I would not even return it if I could...but I see the point of some others, who want what was promised.

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fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history! (Old AAF bar chorus)


Posts: 310 | From: Austria | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ragtag_131st
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Member # 8195

posted 12-22-2000 07:11 AM     Profile for Ragtag_131st   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I agree, to get a good rewiev of a simm it has to be a hardcore simmer that does it.
To get all the in game value as Flight models,damage,interface etc...
A Quake freak has nothing in a simm to do if he dont know sh** about planes or how they work.
And for the developers they surely owe us a working game even if reviews do stink.If i buy a product i demand that it stands for the specifications that it promises and that goes for every product.If it dont work properly you have the right to complain and surely use that right in a correct manner and in a polite way.
When it comes to B17 it has alot of bugs and its not the computers fault, the bugs is Slow gfx drawing,Engine controls not working,AI bugs and i can name 20 more bugs and its our right to demand those bugs fixed no doubt but we have to do it with manner not bashing at wayward or use bad language.
I know Wayward uses over 3 years on this game and they are working on a patch so with this in mind i got some more patience and i will wait for the patch and see what it does fix.If it still not working after patching im throwing this game in the shelf.

Posts: 26 | From: | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mispunt
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posted 12-22-2000 08:12 AM     Profile for Mispunt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
RSColonel_131st: "They do not only owe us a working game, they also owe us a game with some of the features which was hyped to heaven"

I disagree, sure it is dissapointing (ESPECIALLY for those who formed virtual squadrons) but why do they owe you anything then (and what)? Should they give the game away then (or release it on a budget right away) because they failed to live up to the expectations?

B17 proved that nothing in a game is definate until it has been released. And there is no point in getting all pissed of over the features they dropped because none of us have any other interest in the game than that of fun. And this is "unfortunately" a subjective matter my friends..bla bla bla

Cheers


Posts: 182 | From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
RSColonel_131st
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posted 12-22-2000 08:20 AM     Profile for RSColonel_131st   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hhmm, okay this sentence was a little overdrawn. read instead: they should give us some of the features they advertised this game with.

The BF110 is still listed on the box, german retail version that is. In the hasblo cataloge that comes with the game, on the B-17 page, it says still multiplayer (+ Spitfire + BF110 + Do143..).

Engine managment is part of the manual. But it does not work in the game.

This all is, or at least was 1 weeks after UK release, still listed on the official homepage. (Except multiplayer, but + detailed flight model, especialy for fighters)

Okay, features can be hyped by the simmers community, and then dropped...they dont owe use this ones. But advertising that game with these features, and then letting them out...thats big BS. Okay, I for myself knowed a lot of that will be missing by reading the posts here and at BA.net. But what happens with the guys without web? U can see all this nice info around, then u buy the sim and BOOM....20% of what u have heared of are missing. that is close scratching on false advertising...


Posts: 310 | From: Austria | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Iain @ Wayward
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posted 12-22-2000 09:19 AM     Profile for Iain @ Wayward   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Woah... We said a LONG time ago that there was no Bf-110. In addition we NEVER claimed the Dornier and Spitfire were in the game!!!

I'm as amazed as you are that these mistakes were made.

Iain


Posts: 60 | From: | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tracer
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Member # 259

posted 12-22-2000 09:56 AM     Profile for Tracer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes Colonel it's false advertising!
Take this up in certain countries you have a legal case-certainly here in the UK you would!
We have an independant TV watchdog called the ITC whom monitor all adverts for products on television- if they saw this i'm afraid it wouldn't get to the printers with the book nor the box!

Wayward/Hasbro are only getting "away" with selling this sim because nobody has legaly challenged them.

In the UK you cannot sell a product that says on the Box or in the manual what it is *supposed* to do and doesn't.......there *is* a LEGAL line been crossed here?

Tracer

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"Flying is the second greatest thing known to man!
The first is landing!!"


Posts: 681 | From: Edinburgh,Scotland | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Major Bugs
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posted 12-22-2000 10:23 AM     Profile for Major Bugs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Uhhh, Game developers should be selling a working product. That does not mean that the game CAN work on some computers and NOT others.
It is a pretty common sight to see "...not working...." in the same sentence as other details and I think that is more common than "it works!" and bongsaway has a ton of help forums. Jeez, I think they have about as many help forums than this site has basic discussion titles.
and they don't seem to separate subjects too well, primarily due to large number of people posting the same problems all over the place and from what I read, this game has a lot of bugs that need to be cleared up. otherwise there will be a lot of b17 cds on the shelves.


Posts: 43 | From: Toonville, TV | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
buz13
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posted 12-22-2000 12:26 PM     Profile for buz13   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually they owe the buyer what they advertized just like any other product. If you don't believe that then you would not complain if you purchased a real aircraft only to find on your first flight they left off the gear lower lever because they needed to get the plane on the market by Xmas. And actually most (U.S.) States have comsumer protection laws that can come down hard on those who false advertise. So legally in most States they do owe us something. Other nations I don't know.
Posts: 385 | From: Seattle, WA USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
RSColonel_131st
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posted 12-22-2000 02:20 PM     Profile for RSColonel_131st   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Iain, I know this, and this was never meant as an insult to u.

I'm really glad that u kept as posted, for example when multiplayer went out. That way most of us know what they will get with this sim.

I also dont blame u for this, 'cause it looks like ur PR guys and the developers itself are 2 complete different groups.

But what I've stated are real facts, not to bash at WW, but to show what should be fixed, and why some people are so angry.

I guess its to late now, but maybe u can have a nice little talk with the PR guys and straighten theeir facts?


Posts: 310 | From: Austria | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged

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