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Author Topic: Ever have this thought?
Member # 6749

posted 12-20-2000 11:16 AM     Profile for hcajandig   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
OK. On a harrowing bombing run my plane was devastated my flak. While working the Norden I could hear crewman screaming. Finally, after getting my crippled plane away from the target zone I assess the situation and find that my Navigator and Waistgunner are injured. Both have been with me a long time. So, I try to nurse them along on the way home but things don't seem to be going well (and they sure make dying a heart wretching process huh?). We finally get home and I go to the debriefing screen. I notice that we only got 2 small buildings at the target area. And here was my first thought:

"You mean to tell me that I lost two of my best men for two lousy buildings?!!"- then it hit me. This game does exactly what it was designed to do. It adds a really neat human element to flight simming. In games like Mig Alley and Falcon 4 I get upset about losing planes, but not people.
Anyway, It was a great moment for me. Anyone else ever have the same experience?


Posts: 13 | From: Columbia,MO,USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Member # 7531

posted 12-20-2000 04:56 PM     Profile for Desmo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

yes, quite similar here, the human element makes this sim so unique. In other sims you get kill statistics or any anonymous BVR-Splash-xyz stuff. B-17 II leaves room for a lot of thinking during the long missions - about your crew, the people who work in the targets and more. Emotions from joy about a mission success to sadness if Joe Smith doesn't make it home with the rest of the crew.
B17 is not the best flight sim, but the best combatsim experience I ever had.


Posts: 54 | From: | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Member # 5

posted 12-20-2000 06:22 PM     Profile for Viking1     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Originally posted by Desmo:
B17 is not the best flight sim, but the best combatsim experience I ever had.

And that is obviously what the designers intended

Posts: 917 | From: Kelowna BC CANADA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Member # 8776

posted 12-20-2000 07:48 PM     Profile for Flydaddy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Many a young man the same age as some of you flew in these bombers and had to make these decesions and expieriance the fear of combat.
Being a pilot, I understand the stress these boys went through, just the stress of flying todays big birds loaded with passengers, with idiot lights glowing from unknown problems, (yes you business class flyers every flight is an adventure any more), the birds are getting older and more things go wrong than you wanna know about, believe me several times my #2 and I were struggling up there to keep the big bird up, flight engineer screaming at his station as more systems fail, and no-one was shooting at us.
Last summer I flew "Fuddy Duddy" Geneseo's B-17G from NY to OH and it was an adventure. The cockpit is cramped, no power assisted controls, a real "armstrong" bird. And I didn't have to keep it in a formation, watching all the forts around ya, jocking throttles, keeping boost up on the supercharges or any of the real fun stuff. All I could imagine was a ME or FW on a headon, wings flashing as the cannon and mg rounds crash into the fort. The noise without the headphones on was almost deafining, it was a little cold at 10,000 now imagine -25 at 26,000. Once I put her down at Wright Pat all my desires as a pilot were met. I looked up and told my father (he passed in 91)that I understood a little more of why he didn't talk much about those times, and turning towards the 17, I could see the visions of those 19yr olds dropping out of the hatches glad to be alive for another day, but knowing they have to do it all again tomorrow.
As we fly this "Sim" understand a little more of these brave airmen, our fathers and grandfathers and the next airshow when you see one of these men, you will know as he knows, but will never fear as he did. God Bless them all.

Posts: 12 | From: Geneva NY US | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ian Boys
Member # 7801

posted 12-21-2000 05:01 AM     Profile for Ian Boys   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I am busy reviewing this game for and was busy trying out all the modes. In the Historical Campaign I created a new bomber called "Little Susie" after my wife and filled it with crew from where I work, with myself as bombardier.

During the first mission to Brest, myself, Darren the navigator and Paul the co-pilot were injured and put in hospital by flak.

The next mission was the dreaded Hamburg run. This was tough. Little Susie flew through walls of flak and fought off fighters, finally dropping and hitting the primary target. However the return leg saw more problems and fires and injuries mounted. Finally the right wing had so many holes it was no longer giving much lift and the pilot ordered the crew to bail out before the plane went into a spin.

All the crew were taken prisoner and would spend another 17 months in captivity. One was killed, and four severely wounded.

Those of us in hospital back in England were the lucky ones!

That certainly brought it home to me what was happening.


[This message has been edited by Ian Boys (edited 12-21-2000).]

Posts: 33 | From: London UK | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged
Member # 8733

posted 12-21-2000 08:30 AM     Profile for StevieK2     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I know exactly what you mean! You get much more involved with your crew, and care much more about the "old lags" who have been with your plane since the first mission (only got 3-4 left now, but we're on mission 22 tonight!). Nothing like the usual game where life for the virtual avatar is cheap, and usually nasty brutish and short into the bargain.

Another thing I've noticed is that I'll make decisions based entirely around how they affect my crew's chances of survival. For example, moving to a secondary target which has moderate or low flak instead of a primary with high flak and 7/10ths cloud. The reasoning will go along the lines of "I'm not risking these guys for a vague chance of damaging something when I can take them through lighter flak to a less important target I know we can destroy".

It can also work the other way, though. On my last mission (number 21), we were sent to an aircraft factory we'd visited in a much earlier mission (AG Fleugwerkz or something) but not destroyed. Despite the fact that it was a heavily defended target with quite a bit of cloud, I pressed on because I certainly didn't want to take the guys back there a third time. As my bombardier is now Excellent, I let him drop the eggs through the cloud cover, and we wasted the place! No more bad dreams about THAT target.

The bugs and ommissions really piss me off sometimes, and I especially miss the chance to nurse a sick bomber home (engine management - why did they leave it out?), but the human touch saves this game time and time again. Can't wait to finish my tour so I can take on a whole squadron. Problem is, I'd be too tempted to give them 25 milk runs!

Posts: 21 | From: | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Member # 6749

posted 12-21-2000 10:42 AM     Profile for hcajandig   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I hate to bring it up...but can you imagine how cool it would have been to play multiplayer? How about with a central server that allows you to create a character, then promote them as they get through missions with permanent death as the alternative? Real humans would be busting tail to save others when injured. Dying would mean you had to create a new character, not too serious a penalty, but your stats would reset as would your rank. With Roger Wilco or MS Gamevoice the comms would be too cool.
Soooo close. Anyway, I'm having a blast either way.


Posts: 13 | From: Columbia,MO,USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged

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