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Author Topic: B17 II at ECTS??
NightsEye
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posted 08-30-2000 08:03 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
will it be there?
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closter
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posted 08-30-2000 11:49 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes it we be there.I think its want of the first you can see in .
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NightsEye
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posted 08-31-2000 03:14 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Great -- so I can give them a complete bollocking about MP!!
And I would like to see it in action instead of the movie that's about a year old (looked great though) so I would be interested to see how it has advanced since then

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Iain @ Wayward
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posted 09-01-2000 06:14 AM     Profile for Iain @ Wayward   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yes... B-17 WILL be at ECTS. We have two pods planned. I'll be there myself over the whole duration of the show - accompanied by Ken Hall, the guy behind the allied aircraft interiors and exteriors.

Iain


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Iain @ Wayward
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posted 09-01-2000 01:01 PM     Profile for Iain @ Wayward   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Okay... I'll not be posting for a good few days now. This is due to my attendance at ECTS - but I'll be back on here once I've returned and caught up!

Have a good weekend and see you all later!

Iain


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Giill
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Member # 6219

posted 09-02-2000 03:51 AM     Profile for Giill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Iain: I want to say I appreciate your brave face and desire to be available for questions.
I feel the vehement response by some toward Wayward over the multi issue is blown way out of proportion. Yes its disappointing. But how many of these guys are married men, or at least adults? Some are acting like spoiled private school 10 year olds.
Its almost repulsive whats happening over on Bombs Away site.
Alot of them are acting like B-17-2 prima-donna's.
Iain, some of us understand the legal ramifications of Wayward's predicatment.
We know that legally you were tongue tied and restricted.
For those who dont, get a manual on binding contracts and find out about it.
I dont believe for one minute all those who were so excited about this sim will not buy it because multi is removed. I predict about 1 out of 200 might be silly enough to do that. Until Flight Sims in general have a resurgence to the viable side of business we will have to put up with dumbed down,(not saying B-17 is dumbed down)and cut back sims.
Iam part of a squadron that was formed just for this sim...and mainly for the multi aspects for it. I put it to them that most of our flying with the sim would have consisted of off-line play anyway. You know, practicing formation flying, becoming proficient at all positions. After all we know how fickle the net can be at the best of times, so in reality what are we saying here? We would have logged maybe 3 to 5 hours a week of good, un-interrupted multi play?
If this sim has all its other advertized componants in tact at the time or release, I think we will ALL have something to cheer about.
listen guys.....Half full, not half empty!!!!
Back this product.....bring back flight sims from the brink.....show Hasbro(who only understands money, not emotions)that its viable to produce a full-on flight sim.
Anyway, I salute you Wayward for at the very least you had a dream, and were allowed to implement most of it...
All the best with your "baby" and I wish Wayward all the success in the future.

[This message has been edited by Giill (edited 09-02-2000).]


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Bat 21
unregistered

posted 09-02-2000 09:00 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Giill
Believe it......
5 copies not being ordered here. (No LAN) IF you quit kissing *** for a min maybe you will see what is happening.

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Giill
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posted 09-02-2000 01:18 PM     Profile for Giill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Why is it when someone is appreciative of someone else's work they are called butt kissers?
Walk a mile in Wayward's shoes and I dont think you'll be so arrogant.
Do you really believe this is how they wanted it to be?
Come on, have some business sense. This is a Hasbro deal not a Wayward one.
Time for you to learn how to seperate the wheat from the tares!!!!
all the best buddy, and God bless!

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KRIMEWAVE
unregistered

posted 09-02-2000 01:45 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
>I predict about 1 out of 200 might be silly enough to do that.

People who refuse to buy because MP support failed are silly?

Bat is right... you are a buttkisser.


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Giill
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Member # 6219

posted 09-02-2000 04:35 PM     Profile for Giill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
aw come on for crying out loud!
my point isnt that we've been had by Hasbro!
My point, now listen carefully, is that WAYWARD had nothing to do with it...radio check...am I coming in loud and clear?
Wayward worked very hard to bring their dream to reality, and with all of the innovative stuff still in the game, you should grow up and stop with the temper tantrums.
Iain, and anyone else from Wayward...read:WAYWARD......dont deserve your tirade!!
And if thats butt kissing, then alright, thats what Iam.
But when you get a little time in under your belt Dorothy, you will see that the wizard was just a mortal like the rest of us..
sheeesh...When's the last time you put together a totally immersive second world war simulator? Pardon? sorry I cant hear you!
thats what I thought......never!
Again, Hasbro pulled the plug on MP, not Wayward......do you copy? Over.........

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Redneck
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posted 09-02-2000 05:36 PM     Profile for Redneck   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Giill,the press release said BOTH
Hasbro and Wayward agreed not to include MP

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Giill
Member
Member # 6219

posted 09-02-2000 07:23 PM     Profile for Giill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
bound by a contract to say that.....more than likely went like this: Wayward: We need more time to get mp working well, might have to put the release off till 2001. Hasbro: sorry no can do..you promised the Fall of 2000...lets wrap it up guys and get it out for Christmas. Wayward: At the very least let us put some sort of multi play in, even if its not as ambitious as the first plan.
Hasbro: Need we remind you of our contract?
Get this game out now, or we can it!!!
lets see how close Iam when the truth comes out..........

[This message has been edited by Giill (edited 09-02-2000).]


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KRIMEWAVE
unregistered

posted 09-03-2000 12:40 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Giill,

I have no problem with the fact that you find the loss of multiplayer acceptable. What I do have a problem with is you insulting people who refuse to buy this sim.


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times2
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posted 09-03-2000 02:15 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
This isn't about MP, hell it isn't even about B17-2. It's about how this business is run. Wayward made a business decission that turned sour. They also made some bad decissions about code. Do you think that any other business would survive these kinds of mistakes. If they were selling an office package would anybody buy it without a data base. Give your money to sim developers that care more about the sims and less about business. If this could be called a business, its more like a charity the way some of you guys talk. Give to the Hasbro, Wayward home for unemployed programmers. Give the poor poor Wayward thing a break. Yes I do appreciate that someone undertook this project and I do feel sorry for the guys at Wayward, but if you think that buying it is going to help the flightsim community you are nuts. Anyway Wayward gets paid if you buy it or not. At the very least Wayward could have come out and said they made some bad decission and that they are sorry they could not deliver the complete package. But what do they do they come here and hype the product. I want this thing bad but I can promise you I will not buy it. The sim community has some options. Buy from the developers that don't go to the big publishers. Support pay to play. Build the sims within the community. Presure the publisher to support the products they sell. I think that if enough of us tell hasbro we won't buy it without support they would have to cancel the release. That would be a bad thing. But at the very least I expect people from this community to send a clear message to the developer to be more careful about the hype no. 1 and support your code after release. If they had come here and said they were begging Hasbro to let them support the game that is something they could be proud of. I think they gambled on making a role playing / flightsim game and it could not be done. I'm pissed that they would agree to a contract that said no support makes you wonder if they did not want out as bad as Hasbro. And don't tell me that you want this game because it is the only B17 sim out there. Anyone who can afford $10 amonth can join a squad and fly in 30 plane formations online in Aces High or Warbirds. If your thing is to sit in a room by yourself them I think you should take a look at computer gaming and consider if it is healthy or not. Don't even start with the my connection is bad thing because I play every day with guys from all over the world. The thing is they take the time to get their connections and hardware working right. We all know deep down inside that what happened here was that the project was more than Wayward could handle.

I say send Wayward a little check $ of thanks for there effort and buy your games from people who support them after release.


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Arachnid
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posted 09-03-2000 03:29 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
"...some of us understand "
That's usually where the communication breakdown occurs, all too often I've seen posts where the author claims he/she knows all and the rest of us don't.
It's this sort of generalization that causes people to get pissed, can you blame them?
Post with tact and maybe you will get less flames.
As far as I'm aware, NO ONE knows for sure if there is/was a binding agreement that held Wayward back from informing B17 II crowd so stop playing defender until we hear it offically.
Demeaning the rest of your flight sim buddies doesn't help anything except to bring the arsekisser label onto yourself.
That most guys are content without multiplayer doesn't mean the rest of us should just go away, each to their own.

We should stand together more often so statements like:
"Until Flight Sims in general have a resurgence to the viable side of business we will have to put up with dumbed down.."
become the fallacy they deserve.
We shouldn't have to put up with dumbed down flight sims if we send the publisher/developer a message that we aren't happy with their actions.
Of course if you're the type that buys a car and you don't give a damn because they decided to leave out the radio, I'm happy for you.


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Giill
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posted 09-03-2000 05:00 AM     Profile for Giill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Yeah, what ever!
I in no way am judging or passing judgement.
Thats my point. I feel alot of the ex-supporters of this sim are.
Its those who still are excited about this sim that are being called butt kissers and any other name that the fuming masses deem plausable.
If you think withholding your money because one aspect of the sim didnt make it to market will help the simming hobby then I strongly disagree. But thats fine.
I've been married for years, I know all about differences of opinion.
How many of you people who are coming down hard on Wayward do EXACTLY what you say you will EVERY time you say it?
Judge not lest you be judged.
all Iam saying is Wayward had a vision, a dream, and Hasbro has one also...two ships metting in the night....and unless one gives they both sink......Usually in life the smaller boat gives way(wayward)dont chastize them for that.
Also, getting back to the sim..How many of you were going to spend more time in multi play than single play? I know you will say thats irrelevant but why cut off your nose to spite your face?
But if you really believe you are making some kind of political statement by not buying the sim..then all the best to ya!
But something inside of me thinks that most of those who say they wont buy......will.
Sorry, Ive just seen it all too often.
Great outrage and indignation followed by compromise and joining in.
I also dont want my feelings to rile anyone up...But if you think that people who feel the same way as me should be quiet and go away, you're mistaken. I can handle people who have different opinions, can you?
Have Great One!!

[This message has been edited by Giill (edited 09-03-2000).]


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KRIMEWAVE
unregistered

posted 09-03-2000 10:35 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
>But if you really believe you are making some kind of political statement by not buying the sim..then all the best to ya!

Fine, I can accept that as long as you understand that not everyone who refuses to buy is trying to make a politcal statement. Most of us who refuse to buy are doing so because without MP the sim is no longer interesting. That's a personal choice. If something you cared about was ripped out of the sim, I wouldn't call you silly because you refuse to buy it. Do you see now why some of us found your first post a little bit arrogant?

>But something inside of me thinks that most of those who say they wont buy......will.


There you go again. Don't you understand that statements like these infuriate people? To say "... those who say they won't buy... will" is like saying that people who are critical of the product either don't mean it or don't have the fortitude to stand by their convictions. A big arrogant assumption on your part! Please try to have a little more empathy, lest your favorite feature get yanked next.


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Outhouse Mouse
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posted 09-03-2000 11:05 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You know times2, you were doing good, and I agreed with most of what you said, till you somehow developed psychic power's to "know" that someone isnt buying B-17II "because it is the only B17 sim out there". I have been waiting for B-17II since a couple years after the release of the original B-17 game! I too play on line allot,(and off line too) and was really looking forward to MP in B-17II also. But it's over as far as MP goes in B-17II so it look's like I'll be spending some of my time in SP with B-17II, hey what can I say it's a B-17 so much for your psychic abilities Also I personally would never, I repeat NEVER, say that there is something wrong with anyone if they prefer SP to MP. You know allot of us MP types cannot figure out why most SP do not share our feeling's of let down or support us when these thing's happen? Well it's responses like these: "If you thing is to sit in a room by yourself them I think you should take a look at computer gaming and consider if it is healthy or not." I think I would take offense to somone suggesting that something was wrong with me, just because I prefer MP to SP, wouldn't you?
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times2
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posted 09-03-2000 01:24 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Your right that SP thing was out of line. I don't care if it has MP or not really. The no support thing is over the top for me and is driving me nuts. I guess a great artistic can burn his work if he wants or if his master tell him to hehehe.
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Outhouse Mouse
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posted 09-04-2000 03:30 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Very true times2 I HOPE that this game is released bug free, it is possible this is why the release dates kept slipping. Maybe Hasbro might not care, but just maybe Wayward does.
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NightsEye
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posted 09-06-2000 03:42 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
After having seen B17 II in action at ECTS this is one person who will get it even though MP is not included. I must say that I am dissapointed about the lack of MP but SP will still keep me entertained.
Speeking to the demonstrators they say that if enough people end up buying the game then "maybe" a MP patch can be worked on. Who Knows?
The expected release date is as most of us thought --- Christmas but it does look great, and I can't wait to get my grubby little hands on it. (the clouds are 3D for those of you who think otherwise)

Just off to write to Santa


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