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Author Topic: Att: Wayward Staff (B17II wish list)
Rwpfly
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posted 10-15-1999 10:52 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Is engine "cough" modeled in the sound ?
(i.e. chop throttle ===> sput sput sput)

Most of the sims out so far really lack
in the sound department, especially engine run-up and shutdown.
I'd love to hear the "cough"
when you cut the throttle just over the threshold.(this is more a fighter thing)

Also.. Will add-ons be possible for B17II ?
(i.e. Could you release; more aircraft/winter terrain etc. with the game architecture?)

BTW: My Birthday is in January. Is there any chance that Microprose will be giving away copies to people on their birthday ? ; > (dream...sigh....)


Keep Up The Good Work !
On Release Day I Will be first in line !

Rwpfly


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Viking1
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posted 10-15-1999 05:33 PM     Profile for Viking1     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Is engine "cough" modeled in the sound ?

yep, it's there! Not only the sound, but the effects.. the burst of smoke when an engine stutters, and even the shake of the airframe.

Also.. Will add-ons be possible for B17II ?

Likely, but they will be releasing the texture templates so you can paint your fav squadron markings anyway.

BTW: My Birthday is in January. Is there any chance that Microprose will be giving away copies to people on their birthday ? ; >

Well of course, whaddaya think??


Posts: 917 | From: Kelowna BC CANADA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Chuckd
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posted 10-17-1999 06:30 PM     Profile for Chuckd   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
My only wish is that the Wayward team takes their time and puts a finished product out the door instead of rushing a bugged one. I've waited for years for this sim, so another couple of months is no big deal. Too many games have been spoiled because they were rushed into the stores. So please, just take your time, guys.

chuckd


Posts: 18 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Cold Turkey
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posted 10-18-1999 01:23 PM     Profile for Cold Turkey   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I agree with chuckd.Take your time Wayward.
I too have been waiting ages for a game
this interesting.Let it take its time,I can wait for a couple of months for this one.

My birth day is in March,but I can settle for
January.

------------------


Posts: 7 | From: Gothenburg Sweden | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Matt
unregistered

posted 10-18-1999 10:11 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I dont think the engins coughed and spluttered too much , If they did there a piece of crap. Who'd want to fly all over europe with a dodgy engine?
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SkoolD
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posted 10-19-1999 12:23 AM     Profile for SkoolD   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It has nothing to do with the Engine, but the Carb. They naturally "stall" when you punch it. That is why the 63 Impala I drive stalls for about 1/2 a second when I punch it off the line. When the Butterflies open, there is too much air and not enough gas vapor. So carbs have a thing (at least in Cars) called an accellerator pump. It sprays gas into the engine so that there isn't that big of a stall effect (1/2 second). If you didn't then you would have it stall out everytime you punched the gas.

This is one of the reasons why cars have gone to fuel injection. You get more power out of it, but you also don't get that nasty stall.

Carbs you have another nasty habit. Just as the Spit Mark I drivers. With a carb once your floats dry up, you have no fuel to feed the engine. Samething with negative G manuvers. That is why the 109's favorite move was "Down Left" for an escape. The Spits just couldn't follow.

I hope you understand. Can anyone explain it better than me? It would be welcomed.

If you have any other questions just ask.

Tim

P.S. Diesel engines don't have Spark Plugs.


Posts: 197 | From: Phoenix, AZ-USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gunfighter III
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posted 10-19-1999 06:52 AM     Profile for Gunfighter III   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
SkoolD You are basically right! One thing is these engines are Huge in displacement. Built in the days of " to make torque build it heavy and turn it slow" The Radials on a 17 are 1830 CDI. Thats a lot of hungry motor to feed. The Carbs on them are complex bastards. Not anything like your cars engine or float type carb. These are " Pressure Carbs" They have lots of diaphragms and needle and seat valves to measure manifold pressure, ambient air pressure and fuel pressure to make the mixtures right. They still use an accelerator pump to inject a large amount of fuel to compensate for the large volume of air taken in when the butterflies are opened. These carbs are in designed to do two things, allow the aircraft to fly inverted and go up high where the air is thin. Two thing that a float type carb can't do. Another thing is, Missing on cylinders, afterfiring, coughing..leaking oil..burning oil...are all normal operations of the engine. If this doesn't occur, something is wrong. This applies to all 40's era large gas engines. Its just the natrue of the beast. That which gives them the character that people love about them.

In case you are wondering, the carb on the 17 has only two "barrels" and they are rectangular in shape. 3.25" by 3" roughly

hope this helps some

Gunfighter III


Posts: 76 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gunfighter III
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posted 10-19-1999 06:56 AM     Profile for Gunfighter III   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
oh yea....SkoolD...I can show you at least 2 diesel engines that DO have spark plugs in the cylinders...Not glow plugs, but a complete spark ignition system.....distributor...points and condensor..coil...the whole nine yards....


Gunfighter III


Posts: 76 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Wolf
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posted 10-19-1999 10:05 AM     Profile for Wolf   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Gunfighter III:

Now there's an interesting expression, "The whole nine yards". Until recently I'd always thought it was a football reference or something like that, but it's not.

Nine yards is actually the length of a belt of .50 ammunition as carried on a B-17, and if you wanted to be absolutely sure that you put an enemy away or were under severe attack, you gave them "the whole nine yards".

Crazy what you learn when you spend so much time around these aircraft eh?!

Ken.


Posts: 24 | From: Bristol, AVON, UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gunfighter III
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posted 10-19-1999 11:23 AM     Profile for Gunfighter III   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey, if you're intrested in where all those funny expressions like "whole nine yards" came from, I recommend getting your hands on the book entitled " Heavens to Betsy And other Interesting Quotes" I don't know who wrote it but there are some good ones in there.....Im sure Amazon would have it.

FWIW

PS no-one gonna challenge me on my Diesels with sparkin pins??....
GFIII

[This message has been edited by Gunfighter III (edited 10-19-1999).]


Posts: 76 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
gdavis
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posted 10-19-1999 11:44 AM     Profile for gdavis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Gunfighter III,

No challenge, but I'm damn interested, spill the beans!

All the best

Graham


Posts: 36 | From: Bristol, England | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
SkoolD
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posted 10-19-1999 01:41 PM     Profile for SkoolD   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
GF III,

Well, Ok.....That is the exception and not the rule

So tell me where is the spark plugs on that Diesel.

Something else that is interesting is that they burn at a lower temp than a gasoline engine would. (Again, this may be the rule, but not the exception.)

That is one of my photos from a set that some have been published here.

Check them out at:

http://uboat.net


--------

3 x 3 barrel? Man, and I thought my 4 barrel was big.....



Posts: 197 | From: Phoenix, AZ-USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gunfighter III
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posted 10-19-1999 08:31 PM     Profile for Gunfighter III   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
During the years between 1930 and 1950, American farm equipment manufactures were interested in getting more torque and fuel economy out of their tractors per cubic inch in displacement. They all knew about the benifits of a diesel engine, but the problem was, how to start it in the cold temps that these machines had to operate. At this time most companies were producing tractors that had electric starters on them. These used a 6 volt ele.system which worked fine on low compression gas engines, but would have to be extremely large for high comp.diesels. Too large to be effective. Two methods were settled on. The first was using a small pony gas engine to start the diesel. John Deere opted for this method in their R. the second is where the spark plugs in diesel engines answer lies. International Harvester built a seried of MD, WD-9 and WD-40 tractors, starting in 1938 and running through 1953 that used one engine. This engine was started on gasoline, thus on the right side of the block set a carb, ign system and spark plugs. After the engine warmed up enough to support compression ignition, a lever was thown, diesel turned on, and a cloud of white, then black smoke, a sputter and then she's running on diesel. The left side of the block had the injectors and injection pump installed. Caterpiller also employed both methods of starting some of thier early tracklayers, but opted to go with the pony motor idea as thier standard.

SkoolD....Now thats an engine....inline opposed piston?....Marine powerplant I take it....Id love to know more about them....what did they turn over at....200 RPM...develop 1500hp.....something like that??

anyway..thats the story...probably more than you were looking for...but...thats it.

I don't know what a normal car EGT is but my 466 Deere diesel normal op conditions runs about 1250 deg F. at the manifold before the turbo....max is 1500


GFIII


Posts: 76 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
SkoolD
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posted 10-20-1999 12:24 PM     Profile for SkoolD   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
GF III,

Dang are you the most execptional person I have seen

Yes, they normally run at lower temps. That is why Semis need in the middle of winter in those areas like Chicago, Milwakee and such, need to have those Skirts in front of the Grill. If they didn't they would freeze over. Some diesel trucks in the middle of winter need to "warm-up" for 30 to 45 minutes before you can turn on the heater.

I am not sure of the temp that the Engines ran in the U-boats, but I do know that the is only 3 feet between them....That means that they wouldn't be too fun to be in the middle of during Rough seas or a Depth Charge for that fact. Yes, they would have the engines turned off, but it takes time to cool off.

I do know that the museum doesn't deserve that Ship....They treat it like $]-[|+. Those liberal punks think that everyone on that ship was a Nazi and all of them deserved to die.....They have let it rust like you wouldn't believe, they block off some of the ship. They won't let me, who has a serious intrest of U-boat, to go in to the restricted parts of the ship, but you better believe that they let all the Politically correct people to go there. Screw those basards!

The power those Engines had (I don't know if they are combined, but figure they are, because the engines should be about 2,000 each.)

4400 ehp sf

That is Surfaced.

The U-505 is a Type IXc

Here is the URL to the type info:
http://uboat.net/types/ixc.htm

Here is the URL for all the types:

[url]http://uboat.net/types/index.html[/ur]


Posts: 197 | From: Phoenix, AZ-USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
VonGunn
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posted 10-20-1999 02:33 PM     Profile for VonGunn     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks SkoolD, I appreciate your comments!

I'm just an old farmboy, who grew up with a love for old farm and flyin stuff. you guys are welcome to come look at my web site if you like www.3n.net/people/hackfam Its under destruction constantly LOL....

Those marine engines, how did the start them, did they use the batteries and turn the Generators into large "starters"? or compressed air to get them rolling over. Have you seen the movie Das Boot, if so what is your impression of it.

Thanks for the info.
drop by my site and email me comments
Gunfighter III


Posts: 377 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Viking1
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posted 10-20-1999 04:59 PM     Profile for Viking1     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Only two 3x3 barrels on the 17 engines? Hard to believe they had enough air to breathe!
Posts: 917 | From: Kelowna BC CANADA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Gunfighter III
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posted 10-20-1999 05:55 PM     Profile for Gunfighter III   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Viking,
One must remember that the carb sat downstream from the tubocharger and the engine driven super charger. The passed compressed air to the intake risers. The mass airflow would not be restriced by that size of barrel, also note, there wasn't the need for a narrow venturi in this type of carb, so the barrel size was not restriced in that manner either.
The PS series carb, only had one barrel, of about 5 inches in diameter and it was also used on large radial engines.

GFIII


Posts: 76 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Vector
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posted 10-21-1999 03:15 AM     Profile for Vector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've seen Das Boot. Really good naval movie, really sad ending

------------------
-Vector, Flight Sim Enthusiast


Posts: 903 | From: Comox, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Schultzie
unregistered

posted 10-21-1999 07:44 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Pardon me gents- I heard the sound of engines in here, and wondered if you could direct me to Vienna from here- I'll even barter an slightly dented Diamler-Benz engine for the information- Thank You!
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SkoolD
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posted 10-21-1999 02:03 PM     Profile for SkoolD   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
GFIII,

The engines on the U-boats were started by Air Compression. The compressor was in behind the engine compartment. It was in the stern part of the Electric Motor room.

On the Starboard side. The Stern torpedo room in just behind the compressor. (There are a bunch of photos there, about the U-boat. Just go to the gallery and look at "Inside the U-boat.")


The movie Das Boot is, pardon the expression, Damn real. It isn't like SPR, which was technically acurrate up to about the end of the Beach landing. Then it goes down hill (Not that it isn't a good movie). I couldn't believe that they would actually do a frontal assault on the MG-42. Not on your like. That position was easily flanked. When you do flank it, you get the Sniper to automatically pop off one of the Krauts.

The MG-42s didn't fire constantly. They would have overheated too quickly. They fired in 6-10 round bursts. They were also more acturate and deadly that way. (That was one problem with the landing scene. Sure did make great movie magic.)

The chain rounds that the Chicken $**T were running with wouldn't have fallen apart. They were stuck together and wouldn't have come apart. Next is I doubt he would have been taken on the mission either.....

The biggest one was that the Germans were morons. They wouldn't have marched down through that town. They would have sent a recon team to check it out. You must remember chances are that they had just gotten off the Eastern Front with 3+ years of experience.

Oh, last major thing, was that they didn't defend the river on the right side. They should have defended it on the other side....Blow it when a Tank gets on there. It would only take 8 hours to get a bridge there by the Engineers. The Amis (Allies) were still trying to get a perimeter set. Also, you don't ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER stop digging in!

Das Boot was much better technically. It gave you the look of them, the feeling of them, and yet it was all Psychological War. You wanted them to die because they were Nazis. Yet you want them to live, because you see them as Humans.

One of the scenes that I noticed that is easily missed, was that the guy just before the Depth Charges hit, was pissing in to the can. See the Heads (Toliets) couldn't be used after 30 meters of depth. So they would use cans and dump them into the Bilge. Then they would recycle the bigle water when they can.

They really didn't give the meaning of Hot Bedding. You had 3 guys share a bed. One sleep, one awake, and one on duty. The highlight of the trip was that the Captain would order the flipping of the sheets. It was a Physcological Cleaning, and not a real one. That marked the half way point.

I did like in the Director's cut showing that so many weren't Nazis and that they were forced with a Political Party Officer on the ship (The German from Mexico).

The area of the war that is shown was in the Happy Time. They were still winning the war at that point. It got much worse later on. It was much much worse than what that movie shown.

There were no showers, you didn't bath (or Shave) until you got back from the patrol.

The movie is very very realistic.

I was amazed. Remember the whole movie except 3 scenes takes place on a boat (set) 250 feet long by 12 feet wide.

An Amazing movie.....

Well, I have to get home to Change for work.

Anything else?

Oh, I live in Central Phoenix, but I know a decent amount about Farm Equipment.

My Great GrandFather was the Patent Design Drawer for International Harvester.

I have the paper that says he never missed a day of work from his Company. He was there over 50 years. His has passed away, but he only got a 8th Grade education, and learned to do drafting in the evening when he could. He has many many awards, including one fromt the Patent office declaring him one of the best Drafters of Patents ever. (That was years ago.)

He even worked through the depression when the company promised to pay him whenever they could.....Dedication!!!

--------

Vienna is East of here across the Alantic. Assuming that this site is based on the East Coast of the US, since it uses East Coast time.

So where is that Engine? Give it to me.....YOu can't back out now. Man, I am soooooooo lucky.....I can now hanging it in my room on a mount and show it off!!!!!

Do I need to pay for Shipping and Handling?

Is there any other questions about Diesel Engines or such? Just ask....I will try to help if I can.

Tim


[This message has been edited by SkoolD (edited 10-21-1999).]

[This message has been edited by SkoolD (edited 10-21-1999).]


Posts: 197 | From: Phoenix, AZ-USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Shultzie
unregistered

posted 10-22-1999 02:43 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Herr SkoolD

Sorry- I found my map in the meantime- it fell off the seat of meiner Kubelwagen- Sorry for bothering you, and I keep the Diamler-Benz- It is broken anyway !

Schulzie
Batman for Feldmarshall Rommel


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SkoolD
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posted 10-22-1999 05:17 AM     Profile for SkoolD   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
All the more reason to give it to me. I can get it re-built....

My Brother has a 74 Thing....It makes me want to own a Bucket car

Tim


Posts: 197 | From: Phoenix, AZ-USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Schultzie
unregistered

posted 10-22-1999 05:25 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Herr SkoolD (Tim)

Bitte- please- Feldmarshall Rommel will kill me if he finds out I offered the DB in exchange for anything- He wants to built his own aircraft, and this is the starting point- please forget that I was here ???

Danke

Schultz


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SkoolD
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posted 10-22-1999 04:48 PM     Profile for SkoolD   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That is Ok....He was a traitor against the Fueher anyways.

Posts: 197 | From: Phoenix, AZ-USA | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged

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