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»  COMBATSIM.COM ARCHIVE FORUM   » Site-Related Discussions   » Article Feedback   » Review: Steel Beasts

   
Author Topic: Review: Steel Beasts
Editor
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posted 09-25-2000 02:07 PM     Profile for Editor   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Review: Steel Beasts


Posts: 406 | From: COMBATSIM.COM | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Anti-Plato
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posted 09-25-2000 05:05 PM     Profile for Anti-Plato   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I know it's stange, but I actually purchased and played M1TP2 after owning Steel Beasts for a couple of weeks, and I must say that M1 is sorely disappointing. I don't care what is bemoaned about the graphics in SB; still shots of the game in reviews simply do not capture the sense of depth present in the terrain rendering engine. The thermal sights in SB (of which in my mind, the equivelant presentation of the thermal view in M1TP2 made me think I was playing older Microprose products like Gunship 2000 or Silent Service 2)look almost like any night combat footage you've seen of Desert Storm. Yes, the European battlefield perpetuates a giant golf course, and yes the woodland camo looks very peculiar in the desert scenarios, but the explosions and sparks and ricochets in M1TP2 look absolutely contrived and Gi Joe-ish (Hasbro) in comparison to SB. You can laze targets through the mesh of the trees and thread a shot through the branches to dispatch enemy vehicles when they leave a precarious part of themselves ever slightly exposed. One very impressive aspect is the sim's vector physics. Shoot an enemy tank in the side hull while it is racing down a road, and he might fish tail slightly and careen sideways before coming to a stop. Once I even saw a BMP roll through a group of dismounted infantry in an effort to get out of the way of being shot while its brakes failed to stop its forward intertia in time from making my job all the more easier. My only real concession to game play is not the lack of air units, but the over riding tendency of the TC to get my tank killed, and this happens A LOT. From the unbuttoned view, the TC can spot an enemy on the other side of a ridge in front of your gun in a defilade position, but which the tank gun (which is lower than the TC) can't see and thus take under fire. The TC, seemingly unaware of this, will slew the gun at this enemy and will stubbornly battle the gunner for control of the gun and thus prevent him from firing at the targets which are sneaking around to your flanks and are much more of an immediate threat. I've been killed more often by infantry and IFV's because the TC always assigns a higher prioriy to a tank which can't be killed. So much for the Military's philosophy of empowerment! I kept trying to button up the TC to prevent him from spotting units that are not a real threat at the moment because of the terrain blocking all line of sight between us and the enemy, but darn if he doesn't jump right back up there and start the madness all over again when I switch back to the gunner's postion. The battle map is also quite nebulous; there is no intuitive way to look for hull down positions and really gauge distances between one landmark and another-what may look like a large distance on the map is actually point blank range for a tank, and often you get killed because on the map it did not look like the enemy's weapons could reach that far. All in all, the game is considerably realistic because it seems so difficult at first. And in case there is any illusion about the Abram's invincibility, well, you'd best disabuse yourself of that real quick. Infantry hidden in the forests can knock you around all day before you ever even know where the shots are coming from. Even the plain rifle men fight like old school communists and will try and plink the tank's more delicate instruments when caught out in the open even though there is virtually no chance for them to survive. It's a lot of fun to see their tracers come at you and bounce off the hull like ping pong balls shot out of a super charged automatic tennis server-the effect is great through the thermal sights. Experience teaches the player that slow and steady wins the race and not flat out speed with guns blazing; you definetely have to keep your wits about you at all times, which often tends to break down when the lead starts flying. At extremely close ranges, when looking eyeball to eyeball at an OPFOR tank through the GAS while both of us are frantically loading the next round through the breech to get off the first kill shot (seems like an eternity before that angelic "Up!"), I can really imagine the enemy crew desperately working inside there half crazed from fear as I watch the OPFOR tank's gun lowering in my direction. Ultimately, in almost anyway I can imagine, SB serves up the right combination of audio, visual and gameplay nuances which gave me the "I was there" sense that M1TP2 failed to deliver.
Posts: 95 | From: San Mateo, CA, USA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
plummerx
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posted 09-25-2000 05:45 PM     Profile for plummerx   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I rate the sounds a 10 myself, other than that the review is pretty much spot on. This is a great sim.
Posts: 570 | From: Graham WA USA | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Cookie
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posted 09-25-2000 06:00 PM     Profile for Cookie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I agree, this sentence: Sound: 9 - Nothing spectacular but fine left me a bit wondering. For me the sound in this sim is one of the best I have ever heard. The graphics may not be top notch (they do get their job done though, don´t be mistaken), but IMHO the sounds are without doubt just plain awesome.

This is one of the sims that you play, and when you turn the computer off you realize that you just spent three hours in front of the monitor. The immersion you will experience with this masterpiece is on the same level as high quality sims like Falcon 4, even though the technical details like graphics may not be as perfect. This sim has atmospere though, more than plenty actually.

------------------
You can run, but... why die tired?

Visit me at the Flightsim Cafe


Posts: 685 | From: Dortmund, Germany | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Ssnake
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posted 09-25-2000 07:01 PM     Profile for Ssnake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Anti-Plato:
My only real concession to game play is not the lack of air units, but the over riding tendency of the TC to get my tank killed, and this happens A LOT.
OK, it's off topic but expect this to improve a lot with the first patch. You've not been the only one, and we think we resolved this issue now once and for all. However: The TC's the boss. If you think you can make a better job - become TC instead of gunner

Posts: 467 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Kurt Plummer
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posted 09-25-2000 09:00 PM     Profile for Kurt Plummer   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'd still like to see a different, historical-lead+slewable rangegating, sight mechanism or at least the ability to 'mil-a-pop' the sight up or down a notch, indepedent of joystick primary X-Y.

I finally got my Speedkeys to recognize my F-16FS through all the misery but I gotta tell'ya driving that big stick one handed while groping the keyboard like Bach on a Bad Hair Day AND trying to adjust for targets going up and down through what feels like a moon crater of hillocks with you in the center of the caldera is a bit of a stone beach.

But I can't begin to say _how sweet it is_ getting your first 90% on the range, under 12 seconds average...;-)


Kurt Plummer


Posts: 672 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
EasyRhino
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posted 09-26-2000 05:19 AM     Profile for EasyRhino   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So... y'all are saying you like the game, then?


ER


Posts: 44 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jim Cpbb
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posted 09-26-2000 05:30 AM     Profile for Jim Cpbb   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sound is so subjective. To me, a 10 sound should be one of the first things I notice. It wasn't.
Posts: 26 | From: | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Razorback
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posted 09-26-2000 06:06 AM     Profile for Razorback   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
One of the first things I noticed was the sound. I give it a 10.

I love this sim. It is the best purchase I have made since EAW.

RB


Posts: 12 | From: | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mispunt
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Member # 3500

posted 09-26-2000 06:41 AM     Profile for Mispunt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Never mind the individual ratings ( a 9 for nothing spectacular? and an 8 for the graphics compared to what you see around you today? Hmmm.... that's of course personal but a 7 would be more appropriate to me).
Anyway, this is just a damn fine piece of work which despite its shortcomings (everyone can come up with some) proves to be a total thrill ride!

Cheers


Posts: 182 | From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bismarck
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posted 09-26-2000 09:39 AM     Profile for Bismarck   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I vote to either drop the ratings or limit the categories to game play, graphics and learning curve.
Posts: 1432 | From: Madison, Wisconsin via Missouri | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shadow_12TFS
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posted 09-26-2000 12:44 PM     Profile for Shadow_12TFS   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Not sure how you can not like the sounds, considering they were all recorded inside the actual tanks.
Maybe if they were not realistic, they would get a 10?

Posts: 277 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mispunt
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posted 09-26-2000 01:05 PM     Profile for Mispunt   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hi Shadow,
I was refering to the review itself, were it says: "Sound: 9 - Nothing spectacular but fine."
That doesn't realy make sense does it?

Cheers


Posts: 182 | From: Rotterdam, The Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bismarck
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posted 09-26-2000 01:40 PM     Profile for Bismarck   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Never said I didn't like the sounds. I just didn't give them a 10. Most developers would crawl for a 9.

For my money, I'd like them to be a bit more disruptive. I maintain one of the things that made the beach scenes in "Saving Private Ryan" so good is that they weren't subdued to make the dialog easy to hear. I understand that it's hard to communicate in combat. I know thaat modern tankers don't have to communicate with kicks like their WW II counterparts but can it be a studious atmosphere? I think SB does a fine job and maintained focus. That's the main thing.


Posts: 1432 | From: Madison, Wisconsin via Missouri | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Anti-Plato
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posted 09-26-2000 04:36 PM     Profile for Anti-Plato   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The sound to me is really quite good. Although I am ex Air Force and so was never a tanker, I do know that the reports of real discharging weapons almost never sound like the studio reproduced sound effects in Hollywood; they're usually not that "spectacular" in the primary syllable sense, but more so in the harmonic (though they can still be EXTREMELY deafening and pervasive enough to knock you over. Imagine a Webster's encyclopedic dictionary being dropped from a three story building. Now amplify that sound by about a factor of ten). What television usually fails to reproduce are the doppler shifts of a sonic boom when a flying slug tears through the sound barrier, and the pitch of echos refelected off of different materials. One of my favorite audio cues in SB occurs when the player's tank takes a lethal hit from a tank gun and the player is kicked out to the external view: you can catch the delayed sound of the projectile just beginning to catch up with action as it rips through the atmosphere and then winds down and fades out. I recommend that anyone who plays SB should have a reasonably good audio setup with maybe a subwoofer; it's at least as important as a fast CPU for good absorbtion into the sim. Even after already watching them a dozen times or so I still like to run the M1 and Leo tutorials and watch the game play itself out in the simulated combat demo with the volume cranked up: the sound definitely was one of the first things to impress upon me some kind of Nietszche/Wagnerian opera as the battle ebbs and flows from cacaphony to dead silence.
Posts: 95 | From: San Mateo, CA, USA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Maurice
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posted 09-27-2000 06:26 AM     Profile for Maurice   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Having been a tanker I can tell you without hesitation that what you're hearing in SB is exactly what it sounds like inside your CVC helmet in a tank. While some people may feel that there might be some missing atmospheric sounds just remember that when you're sitting in the gunners station, it's like being an athlete. You're tuned out to everything else except concentrating on your job of putting steel on target.

SB is head and shoulders above M1TPII, it's just what it's like to be a tanker. Now we treadheads finally have a modern armor sim that can be equated to some of the study flight sims out there like F4, thanks to Al & Ssnake at eSims to boldly go where no developer has gone before. hehe


Posts: 117 | From: NJ | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
MonsterZero
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posted 09-28-2000 06:48 PM     Profile for MonsterZero   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You may say I'm silly, but after seing how horrible the website of Shrapnel Games is I'm afraid to send them my credit card number, despite the fact that I'm really looking forward to testing the game.

The website appears as if Shrapnel games were located in some dude's dirty basement.

Shrapnel Games, have mercy on us!

[This message has been edited by MonsterZero (edited 09-28-2000).]


Posts: 442 | From: Worth, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ssnake
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posted 09-29-2000 04:53 AM     Profile for Ssnake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Monster, you can place orders via snail mail too, if you're afraid of using the web shop. Inquire details from mall@shrapnelgames.com

Posts: 467 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Richard
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posted 09-29-2000 08:38 AM     Profile for Richard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So what exactly don't you like about the site?

------------------
Richard Arnesen
---------------
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Sarge is coming...


Posts: 34 | From: Lancaster, OH, USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
MonsterZero
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posted 09-29-2000 09:03 AM     Profile for MonsterZero   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Richard:
So what exactly don't you like about the site?


Now I have been thrown off course. I took a look at the website to answer your question in detail and realized that now it looks quite different.

Before the only distinct and recognizable detail was that horizonatal green strip with a photo of a Tiger tank. Everything else was a mess of proken links!

A number of things could have happened:
-You updated the site after my article
-I ran into forgotten chunks of the website that remained in the nooks and crannies of your server(s) despite being replaced by other pages (old and useless pages may remain in a search engine for a while and I used Yahoo to find you)
-I experienced temporary networking problems

As of now the site looks boring but appears far more functional than the last time I saw it.

Nevertheless, the "Add to Shopping Cart" button for Steel Beast returns a broken link in IE 5.5. It does work in Netscape, but you guys should take a look at it...This is what it returns:

https://secure.gorealtime.com/cgi-bin/cart32.exe/9194618513-AddItem

Human beings are vain. One of the primary reasons we buy Ferraris and Lamorghinis is because they...look like Ferraris and Lamorghinis. Take the engine and supension of a Diablo (a marvelous piece of Italian engineering), cover it with the body of a Ford Escort and let's see who's gona pay you $300,000.00 for the thing.

[This message has been edited by MonsterZero (edited 09-29-2000).]


Posts: 442 | From: Worth, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Richard
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posted 09-29-2000 10:22 AM     Profile for Richard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Nope unfourtanetly sometimes (especially when it is overloaded) IIS (our web server from Microsoft) doesn't do to well on loading our front page related content. Blame Microsoft .

As far as the e-commerce side of things we know all about that. If things work out (I am golding my breath here ) we will be debuting a completely reworked e-commercen solution starting on Monday (maybe today but I doubt it). It will have a TON of improvements and will even allow some of our international shipping costs to go down.

------------------
Richard Arnesen
---------------
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Sarge is coming...


Posts: 34 | From: Lancaster, OH, USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
MonsterZero
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posted 09-29-2000 11:39 AM     Profile for MonsterZero   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm placing an order for a copy of Steel Beasts right now
Posts: 442 | From: Worth, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ssnake
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posted 09-29-2000 02:51 PM     Profile for Ssnake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for buying
Posts: 467 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Axl
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posted 10-09-2000 02:35 AM     Profile for Axl   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
i disagree with the author of this article about the advantages and disadvantages of the leo2. okay, the point with the fix magnification is true. but is a automatic lead really that good? if you turn around your turret on a stationary target, you have to wait 1-2 seconds, because the fcs has to realize that the target is not movin. with the leo2 you will not have that prob, only do not push the lead button. and you can press the lead button the whole time while engaging. then laser and 1/4 second later fire. it's not laser-lead-fire.
yes, i was a leo2 tanker and my first try with the m1 system was is steel beasts. and if you ask me the american system sux.

cu
axl


Posts: 1 | From: | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ssnake
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posted 10-09-2000 03:02 AM     Profile for Ssnake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That topic has been beaten to death.
It's a matter of training and being accustomed to one or the other. Without a good joystick, the M1 might even play better on the PC because dynamic lead requires a really high class smooth digital joystick to show it's excellence... or a lot of training.

You and me have operated the real thing, and we know that the real gunner's handles still outclass any joystick you can find for a PC. Insofar it's a technological limit that's nobody's guilt.


Posts: 467 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Anti-Plato
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posted 10-12-2000 02:15 PM     Profile for Anti-Plato   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Perhaps this question is better directed on another forum, but I was curious about whether or not sales agreed with or fell below any expectations, and if the developers had felt they at least were able to recoup their investment (because I hope they do).

[This message has been edited by Anti-Plato (edited 10-12-2000).]


Posts: 95 | From: San Mateo, CA, USA | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ssnake
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posted 10-13-2000 04:52 AM     Profile for Ssnake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It's too early to give a definite answer after seven weeks of actual shipping. But we haven't reached break-even yet.
Posts: 467 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
FoxK
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Member # 81

posted 10-16-2000 10:19 AM     Profile for FoxK   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I like tank sims and appreciate the hard work of smaller developers so i put my 5600 cents worth in One quick, if not stupid, question...can one set resolution? I got it set to "high" and i wonder if that's all i can do....grafs look about the same as M1TPII (640X480?)
Thanks

------------------
"We're not retreating. Hell, we're just attacking in a different direction!"
GEN. OLIVER P. SMITH, USMC


Posts: 195 | From: | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Ssnake
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Member # 4038

posted 10-18-2000 09:40 AM     Profile for Ssnake   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You probably read the answer over at Shrapnel's forum, right?
Posts: 467 | From: Germany | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
brewsky
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posted 10-18-2000 03:48 PM     Profile for brewsky   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well,
The reviews from around the net say this is an excellent sim, I think even Papa doc mentioned it. I want one.

Posts: 305 | From: Tarrytown,NY | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged

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