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»  COMBATSIM.COM ARCHIVE FORUM   » Game Discussions (Title-specific)   » Enemy Engaged: Comanche vs. Hokum   » PNVS

   
Author Topic: PNVS
Bluehawk
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Member # 7471

posted 10-22-2000 09:10 PM     Profile for Bluehawk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It's harder than hell to use the pilot night vision... no detail over most of the terrain. Is this because I'm playing with low detail due to my slower system or does anyone else have this problem?
K6-2 300
Gigabyte GA-5SG100 motherboard w/ SiS 5591 AGPset
64meg Ram
Vodoo3 3000 AGP

Posts: 10 | From: Corpus Christi, TX | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
j7wild
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Member # 6251

posted 10-22-2000 11:51 PM     Profile for j7wild   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
There is nothing wrong with your system.

I have a P3 733mhz 224MB Ram, with an ATI Radeon 3D card, but I when I turn on the night vision, I can't tell any detail and depth on the terrain.

It's easy to run into the side of a mountain because I can't tell it's there.

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Posts: 380 | From: houston, tx, usa | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
blackjck
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Member # 7087

posted 10-23-2000 12:10 AM     Profile for blackjck   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
It's just as hard in the real thing. You get very little contrast when using night vision systems. Especialy over desert or water. The radar altimeter is a life saver.
Posts: 20 | From: | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
CavScout19D
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Member # 7238

posted 10-23-2000 05:00 AM     Profile for CavScout19D   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Amen, in real life you have very little depth perception with passive night vision. I banged the crap out of my nose many times driving a Bradley at night hitting a deep hole or whatever!
Posts: 138 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
OBarbas
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Member # 6676

posted 10-23-2000 05:11 AM     Profile for OBarbas   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry to disagree, guys, at least at dawn. Just before sunrise, I find the night vision very helpful in judging an approach to the crest of a mountain. Perhaps that's the "window" when it works the best. Give it a try.
Posts: 194 | From: New York, NY USA | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Bluehawk
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Member # 7471

posted 10-23-2000 09:53 AM     Profile for Bluehawk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I guess I'm just used to the night vision in Longbow 2... even the stars disappear when turning on night vision in Comanche vs Havoc. Maybe I'm also influenced incorrectly by video tape from starlight systems shown on some of the various military shows such as Weapons At War. The FLIR seems to show more detail over the same terrain than the night vision system, but it's too small a screen to fly with.

I really do love this game!


Posts: 10 | From: Corpus Christi, TX | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Kamando
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posted 10-23-2000 10:06 AM     Profile for Kamando   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
FLIR and PNVS are two totally different things... FLIR works by detecting heat sources while PNVS is a light amplification tool. Thats why you get more detail with one than the other.
Posts: 109 | From: | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Murphcat
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Member # 1658

posted 10-23-2000 10:23 AM     Profile for Murphcat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The terrain and objects in EECH are too dark period. At night or even in the day. Turning up gamma helps alot, especially at night, and especially with PNVS. I run gamma x1.3 in the day and x2.0 at night. This is probably overkill, but you can see everything, especially the landing pads which glow bright green from 1+ Km out. In my first campaign (Yemen) I had to fly at 10K to avoid the mountains, could'nt see a damn thing. This fixed it.

Have fun

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Murphcat


Posts: 167 | From: Franconia NH | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
whisper_ffw06
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Member # 7480

posted 10-23-2000 11:20 AM     Profile for whisper_ffw06   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Totally agree! The only solution without turning gamma up for me is to play without light in the room during night trying to figure where this f..... "Del" key is in the dark to bring FLIR up ! I should buy a keyboard light for bad weather and night conditions.
Posts: 2 | From: Paris, FRANCE | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ghostrider 16
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posted 10-23-2000 01:48 PM     Profile for Ghostrider 16   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kamando:
FLIR and PNVS are two totally different things... FLIR works by detecting heat sources while PNVS is a light amplification tool. Thats why you get more detail with one than the other.

The PNVS on the Apache and the Comanche are *not* light amplification devices like your typical night vision devices. The PNVS on these two aircraft definitely uses thermal imaging. When referring to the "FLIR", usually what is being referred to is the FLIR mode of the TADS on the Apache or TAS on the Comanche, as opposed to DTV or DTO modes. Also note that the Apache (and if my memory serves me right, also the Comanche) has no built-in, light-amplifying night vision system. The pilots use a clip-on set of night vision goggles for that.

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Darrell "Ghostrider" Swoap


Posts: 24 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
Spectre_USA
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posted 10-23-2000 06:46 PM     Profile for Spectre_USA   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Murphcat,

quote:
I run gamma x1.3 in the day and x2.0 at night.

How are you setting Gamma? In-game? I use
a 3rd party item called Powerstrip, but it
is a little lacking. I have not seen a
Gamma in the game. IS there a switch or
something?

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-=Spectre=-

[This message has been edited by Spectre_USA (edited 10-23-2000).]


Posts: 294 | From: Spokane, WA, US of A! | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reaper
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Member # 964

posted 10-23-2000 08:05 PM     Profile for Reaper     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spectre_USA:
Murphcat,

How are you setting Gamma? In-game? I use
a 3rd party item called Powerstrip, but it
is a little lacking. I have not seen a
Gamma in the game. IS there a switch or
something?


I run with my gamma on 1.2x. I've got a TNT card, and it has a place to set the gamma on it in the properties.


Posts: 335 | From: US | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
2ltviper
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Member # 5239

posted 10-24-2000 02:04 AM     Profile for 2ltviper   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
So I take it that PNVS sucks in this game like to itdoes in the real bird? Take it from me, it sucks! PNVS is a type of FLIR, someone was saying it wasn't. Close in, goggles, which are light amplification, are better. Further out, PNVS is better. But details are hard to make out. Stars do not show up on PNVS or TADS, they aren't in the 8-12 micron range of IR output. Things like tanks and other vehicles show up well. It can see through some obscuration and light fog, but this can mislead aviators into exceeding there abilities and flying right into fog banks and sunsequently, the ground. Blackjack knows about goggles and this, but PNVS makes it even more tempting. I guess if the weather is foggy (but daytime) it will allow some vision through it while goggles are useless, but itain't x-ray vision. Our Longbows will soon be getting (soon, as in years) an improved PNVS and TADS. Police FLIRS on helicopters are better than ours. But then again, PNVS has been around for more than 20 years in the origianl prototypes (yeah, with Howard Hughes in it). BTW, Blackjack, just passed my AH-64D checkride tonite. My bank account is a bit lighter, but it was worth it (just kidding).

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"Hellfire Away!"


Posts: 73 | From: Enterprise, AL | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Kamando
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Member # 6262

posted 10-24-2000 01:42 PM     Profile for Kamando   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
In my previous post I took PNVS to mean the actual goggles that the pilot wears, so I was mistaken. I have worn the Night Vision goggles that the pilots use and the viewing quality was rather good, on a visit to Fort Belvuare (forgive me if I spelled it wrong).
Posts: 109 | From: | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged
blackjck
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Member # 7087

posted 10-24-2000 02:57 PM     Profile for blackjck   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Both PNVS and NVG's have advantages. Some Apache crews use both, different system for each pilot, to maximize this.
Posts: 20 | From: | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
2ltviper
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Member # 5239

posted 10-24-2000 09:10 PM     Profile for 2ltviper   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Your right about the dual use of the goggles and FLIR. The PNVS is a bit better than the TADS for pilotage, and has a true 1:1 ratio, while the TADS when used as NVS has 1.1:1 ratio. A lot of units have ANVIS 6, which has good close range resolution for the front seater. He can flip the goggles in place to help with clearing the aricraft. Hell, he can aslo leave them in place and look below to the ORT for targetting. But I've gotten used to using the HMD to display the TADS picture (not using the HMD as a sight, butt TADS as a sight and the HMD as a TV screen in front of my eyes). It's a technique for some. ANVIS won't display any flight data like the HMD will if NVS is a video source. But the slowness of the TADS in slewing can be aggravating at times, especially when in a pattern!

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"Hellfire Away!"


Posts: 73 | From: Enterprise, AL | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Murphcat
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Member # 1658

posted 10-25-2000 10:34 AM     Profile for Murphcat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Spectre_usa

I have a V4500 card which enables you to set different gamma levels for D3D, Glide, Desktop or Video Overlay. There's also a neat little util for Voodoo cards called V4runner that lets you save different settings for different games. I used to have a TNT card and the way to do it was the way Reaper describes, thru properties/settings etc. You could also save different settings here too. This will apparently change the gamma for the monitor output, regardless of API or application. Some programs may have internal video control which can overide this, but EECH isn't one of them. Just right-click on the desktop to bring up the video properties page, select settings and select the tab that brings up the color correction. Powerstrip can do the same thing.

Good luck

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Murphcat


Posts: 167 | From: Franconia NH | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged

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