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»  COMBATSIM.COM ARCHIVE FORUM   » Hardware / OS Discussions   » Sound, Video, & Monitors   » Celeron 400+Voodoo3 ?

   
Author Topic: Celeron 400+Voodoo3 ?
florrb
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posted 01-09-2000 04:16 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm curious to hear from people who've upgraded the graphics on Celerons that came with 'integrated graphics'. I'd like to know how much it improved the performance of their sims, especially Falcon 4.0. My system has 64megs of RAM, so I'm wondering if more memory should come first. Also, which PCI cards are out there besides the Voodoos? 'PC World' rates them as the best deals but I'm curious.
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Smeghead
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posted 01-10-2000 11:33 AM     Profile for Smeghead   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As far as I know, 3dfx are about the only company doing PCI graphics cards any more. They have plans for a PCI-based VSC-based card (a Voodoo 4000, I think).

I can't actually name another company that does PCI off the top of my head - you certainly won't find an nvidia-based PCI board anywhere, and I'm pretty sure that S3 have given up on PCI also...


Posts: 1143 | From: Chicago, IL - a Brit abroad | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Truro
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posted 01-12-2000 09:29 PM     Profile for Truro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
To my surprise I saw mention of a pci based tnt, maybe asus. Was sure news to me...

Get the V3 anyway. I like to recommend a 2000 for $75 on the net. Armchair Aviator found a 3000 for $105 to my surprise.

For F4 another 64 ram would take the pauses out and make faster load times.


Posts: 1441 | From: Tulsa, Ok | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
Smeghead
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posted 01-13-2000 08:27 AM     Profile for Smeghead   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Wow - a PCI-based TNT board. Never thought they existed.
Posts: 1143 | From: Chicago, IL - a Brit abroad | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
DM
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posted 01-14-2000 05:50 PM     Profile for DM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm not sure whether I detect irony here or not. Anyway, I have a PCI-based TNT card, its a Diamond Viper 550. If I were you though, I'd go for the Voodoo 3 simply because Falcon 4 would be great on it.

------------------
"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."


Posts: 307 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shavah
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posted 01-14-2000 08:06 PM     Profile for Shavah   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
STB put the V4400 out in both PCI and AGP.
Posts: 551 | From: Omaha NE | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Casey
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posted 01-15-2000 12:12 AM     Profile for Casey   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Florrb:

I have a Celeron 366. It came with 64 MB of RAM and an ATI Rage Pro on the board. I put in a Voodoo3 2000 PCI and another 64 MB of system RAM and I've never looked back!

For about $200, I doubled my system memory and more than doubled my gaming power. The V3 runs Falcon in Glide or D3D. Same goes for EAW and F-15. The newer sims, like USAF and MiG Alley also run perfectly.

I'm a fan of the Celeron. Mine, while listed as a 366MHz chip and costing hundreds less than a PII, runs at nearly 386 MHz.

Good luck.


Posts: 636 | From: America | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
florrb
unregistered

posted 01-15-2000 11:36 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm afraid that $200 is double my budget for now, so I'm wondering which should come first, the memory or the video? I've read that flight sims are heavily cpu dependent, and that vid-card upgrades aren't very important; memory is more important to performance. I'm curious to hear from people who've experimented. Thanks for the responses so far
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Casey
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posted 01-15-2000 03:14 PM     Profile for Casey   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Florrb:

I have experimented so I'll pass on my observations. Hope it helps!

Some sims will not run at all, if your video card can't handle it. For example, I believe Jane's WWII Fighters calls for a card that supports Glide, D3D or Open GL. If you try to run this with built-in system graphics of most systems it will simply fail to run.

Some games will call for a 3D card with "at least" 4 MB of memory. If you try to run them with a video card that has 2MB, it will not run, or it will chug along like a slideshow.

On the other hand, some sims will run the same with an older video card or a new Voodoo3, until you jack up the RAM. Falcon 4.0 and Microsoft CFS come to mind. Both of them ran only slightly beter when I went from a crappy 2MB card to the Voodoo3, UNTIL I increased my RAM. It turns out, despite the specs on the boxes calling for 32 or 64 MB of RAM, both games can devour RAM in no time- the more you put in, the more they will eat up and take advantage of.

So, what's my advice? First, ask yourself what sims you have in mind. If you are itching to play a few titles which require 3dfx Glide to run (the box will say so), you're wasting your money to get the most powerful Direct3D card in the world (like the TNT2). Voodoo3 cards, made by 3dfx, support both Direct3D and Glide.

It's usually the odd game which demands more than 64 MB to run, although most will benefit from added memory later on.

Here's what I did: I got the Voodoo3 2000, PCI for about $120. I think it's cheaper now. Once that was installed, I was able to run a half-dozen sims which were out of my reach before. The only ones which still seemed sluggish after that were Falcon 4 and CFS, for the most part.

That's why I got more RAM a few weeks later. But I could have enjoyed a lot of games for a while with my original 64 MB. When I got it, 64 MB was $99, with a $20 rebate.

Good luck. read those game requirements on the boxes carefully and write down the specs you keep seeing on games you want. Then decide.

[This message has been edited by Casey (edited 01-15-2000).]


Posts: 636 | From: America | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
florrb
unregistered

posted 01-16-2000 02:00 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks Casey, Falcon 4.0 is one of the sims I own, along with Red-Baron-3d. It does run on an HP 4535(Cel-400,64meg RAM, 810chipset), but gets jerky in large dogfights and when flying near the ground (when I need smooth framerates most, in other words). I need to decide whether to start with more RAM, or the V3-2000. Actually, the soundcard has to be my first priority, as it seems to be defective; it keeps telling me that my joystick isn't connected. Even when 'control panel' says my joystick's 'OK' it doesn't work right in any of my games.
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Truro
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posted 01-16-2000 03:14 PM     Profile for Truro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Get the card first. Set yourself up at 1024 res. You will have good framerate with an occasional pause in Falcon when accessing HD with 64 ram. Better than no pauses and lousy frame rate with more ram and present video situation.
Posts: 1441 | From: Tulsa, Ok | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
florrb
unregistered

posted 01-22-2000 08:27 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks Truro, btw, was that V3-2000 priced at $75 plus s/h? Does anyone agree/disagree about getting the vid-card before getting more memory? Can anyone recommend a good 'How-To' guide for installing the card?
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Truro
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posted 01-23-2000 01:23 AM     Profile for Truro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
We better talk about your computer a little more. Is the 810 the board with onboard graphics you can't disable? Have you talked to HP about it? Think we better check our advice..
Posts: 1441 | From: Tulsa, Ok | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
florrb
unregistered

posted 01-23-2000 04:27 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I believe I said that, but yes it's got the 'integrated video', and I've checked with H-P, and I can disable the onboard graphics and install a PCI card (but only a PCI card). The question is whether I would get more improvement with more RAM. Of course, since the onboard graphics use system RAM, a new card would count as a modest memory increase. The big thing that got me asking this is a video card comparison that showed almost no difference between cards when running Falcon-4.0(which I've got). The interpretation is that it's heavily CPU dependent and needs LOADS of RAM. I've got 64mb and that seems to be minimal these days.
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florrb
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posted 01-23-2000 04:37 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Whoa, Truro, I just re-read your post; I forgot there were m'boards that wouldn't allow the onboard memory to be disabled. I had thought some of them couldn't, but I'm 99-percent sure mine can be disabled and upgraded. Like I said, I can afford one or the other, but not both right now. So I'm trying to decide which one to get first.
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machineman
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posted 01-24-2000 05:17 PM     Profile for machineman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
florrb, if your joystick is a Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro the 'joystick disconnected' problem may be the joystick itself.
Posts: 66 | From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
florrb
unregistered

posted 01-24-2000 07:16 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Could you elaborate on the joystick issue? I also have a Gravis joystick that i can't get it to recognize, but I'm still pretty inept when it comes to this stuff.
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machineman
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posted 01-24-2000 08:14 PM     Profile for machineman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've had intermittant problems with my 3D Pro ever since I can remember. In the beginning rebooting would usually get it connected but it's getting worse now. Microsoft does have a patch for this posted, but it did not work for me. I deleted all my joystick drivers the other day (without reinstalling) and it worked for a week straight, but now it is playing up again. You may want to post on the joystick forum. This is a known problem with this joystick, arghh. The last time I tried to find an answer for it a few people posted that the answer is to simply to get another stick, am kicking myself now I didn't get the force feedback microsoft while the rebate was on last month. Mind you, if all your joystick's don't work it could be your sound card after all, but it is probably worth asking around a bit before you replace it. (Or go for a USB joystick, which may take some load off your processor as well and give you a few extra frames)

Oh, and I went from 64 to 128 megs of RAM (Pentium II 333, 4MB STB Riva 128 vid card), and hardly saw any difference in WWII fighters, the simulation I play. I wish I would have gone for a new video card instead.


Posts: 66 | From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Truro
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posted 01-24-2000 10:43 PM     Profile for Truro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Let's see...

I forgot what the 810 was; think it has an Intel I740 graphics built in. Some boards had an extra 2 megs for frame buffer, some use main memory for buffer, sheesh. You're right, it can be disabled, and only a pci can be added, since there's no agp slot.

As to the card vs memory question: how fast does Falcon run in campaign now? If it's jerky even in TE missions, that means you need video. If it runs campaign at 10 or 15 in the thick of things then get memory. Any other game, its a clear choice for the card first. If Red Baron is jerky, it's a card problem. Falcon needs both, the rest of your games need the card.


Posts: 1441 | From: Tulsa, Ok | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
florrb
unregistered

posted 01-25-2000 02:37 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I haven't played F4.0 in campaign mode (because of the joystick problem), I just got in some training missions and a couple of 'Instant Action' missions. It got very jerky on me when I flew through the cloud over a smokestack, and when the enemy fighters showed up and started launching missiles. Red-Baron ran smoothly enough in the few 'Instant Action' missions I got to play before my joystick quit on me again
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kinggeorge
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posted 01-26-2000 05:08 AM     Profile for kinggeorge     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Get the video card!
RAM prices are high and you will manage too play with 64MB
I've been playing (most of the time (un-) installing) F4 for one year with 64MB. sometimes i get pauses but you can avoid them.

Posts: 246 | From: Bozen-Bolzano/Italy | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
florrb
unregistered

posted 02-02-2000 04:19 PM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's odd that nobody makes PCI cards but 3dfx. I would have thought that people upgrading their 'Integrated graphics' would be a significant market. It looks as though the Voodoo4 might be available as a PCI card
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