EAW will stay on my HD too I suspect even after I get BoB.

The end of EAW's time should be soon, but it remains to be seen which title will take an equivalent spot. I'm personally skeptical that it will be BoB because that sim's scope is so narrow. It would require very serious modifications to extend it beyond its release subject matter. I think people will relatively quickly tire of 109e/Spit 1b duels in the September skys of Kent or detailing every weapon loadout to the Nth degree for yet another Channel convoy bombing. Jane's WWII fighters also had a narrow scope and didn't have the legs to go the distance even though it was better than EAW in most technical respects.

I have uninstalled EAW, but only because everything you can "do" in it is done better (IMVHO) in either BoB or B-17 2, so I just wouldn't play it. Similarly, I don't think CFS 2 ranks with either EAW or BoB, but unlike them it gives you the Pacific theatre, so stays installed for when I fancy a quick fling in a Zero.

a) shallow simmers
b) in denial
c) by implication, idiots

Did I miss one of your points?

As for what constitutes a "hard core" sim, let me supply a tidbit of personal background. I'm a senior engineer at Evans & Sutherland. Our only business is visual simulators (www.es.com for reference.) I've been designing simulation hardware and software for as long as some here have been alive. I've been in multi-megabuck simulators the world over. All kinds of military craft, land, sea and air, all kinds of civilian aircraft, even things like harbor cranes. I've worked on the Space Shuttle simulator in Houston.

Please spare me the laugh, Boxcar, of tutoring me what a "hard core" sim entails. None of the PC sims are remotely close. Nevertheless, I have fun with them, and I anticipate having fun with BoB when it becomes readily available in the States.

If you find BoB to be the best program since Pong, fine, but setting yourself up as some kind of clearinghouse on sim realism, dispensing assessment on those who disagree, is unsupportable, even laughable. The way to go about promoting something you find better is to explain its strengths over other offerings, not to call those who have different analyses pantywaists. Try again.

Edit note: BTW, when I wrote 'try again', I meant that literally. I don't have BoB yet and am keen to know how it excels over other titles, EAW included. I'm also keen to know where its rough spots are. Just leave out the weird personal axe to grind which serves no useful purpose. People who leave EAW on their hard drives are not ipso facto crybabies. So stoke the BoB anticipation - I can take it!

Boxcar, I'm a grognard, about as hardcore as your going to find. Which is why I found a bad graphical error
on the very first screenshot of the Stuka I saw, and cast a serious doubt on the sim regarding accuracy. Can
you find that error? The latest screenshots show it isn't fixed.

All other Rowan products except for MA all have arcade FM's. Hopefully BoB will be more like MA than their
other stuff. FM's are extremely important to me, so I will be very critical on this. If the FM is as good as
EAW with ECAO 1.4, I will be happy to overlook the rather poor graphics of BoB.

I'm looking forward to BoB more as a strategy game than a flight sim. The scope of BoB is far too narrow to
hold my flying interest for too long, hence my anticipation of it as a strategy game. It most certainly will
not displace EAW, but stay along side it ....... I hope.

I haven't heard too much about multiplay in BoB. As a modern game, this is a must. It is expected. If MP does
not pan out, then I'm afraid BoB will have no claim as King of the Hill.....not even for a short time.

As I said, BoB, I hope, will exist alongside EAW. And then there is Il-2. My mouth waters. Now all we need is
a good Pacific sim. CFSII doesn't cut it.

Hey Kraut, I wish I could get online to give AH and HC a try. I hope satellite gets here soon. Are not those
games "pay as you go"?

[This message has been edited by Sulla (edited 12-14-2000).]

BTW, about AH- that's a flat 30 $ rate/month. Forget it, I don't even wanna know what it converts to in Canadian

Arcade FM's? Oohh, no worries there mate. I'm afraid it makes even ECAOL rather arcadish. Did you try the demo?

What's important is they feel realistic, i.e IMHO you feel like you're in a three-ton aircraft at 15,000 feet. EAW, I must confess, flies a bit like you're on rails. As for the tech aspect, well I'm not really qualified to speak about it but I found the Spit bleeds speed rather slowly on final approach.

Anyway...try it, you won't be disappointed. Take an EAWer's word for it

------------------
-Ajax out

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"Je suis un Canadien québécois, un Français canadien-français. Un Américain du Nord français. Un francophone québécois canadien. On est des Canadiens américains francophones."-Elvis Gratton
--------------------
"You always use violence. I should've ordered glutinous rice chicken" -Anonymous

BTW, about AH- that's a flat 30 $ rate/month. OUCH!!

Arcade FM's? Oohh, no worries there mate. I'm afraid it makes even ECAOL rather arcadish. Did you try the demo?

Glad to hear that Ajax. I've never said EAW had the best FM. I would be happy if BoB was AS good. But if it's better
BONUS!!

Demo coming soon.

Oh oh. 22 Minutes just got hold of Bush.

Sulla,

You still can fly AH offline for free (hey, that's all I can do ), I swear that sim has got the best feel of flight I've ever seen. Try it! The download's just ten or so megs. BTW you also can play limited (eight or so people) multiplayer for free, I know Schatten and the Kali gang's been experimenting with it.

------------------
-Ajax out

1.First of all I meant what I said and I wasn`t trying to compare PC game definition with your proffesional career.
2. If you want to blow your own horn to everyone but me on this forum then don`t use my "OPINION" as a vehicle to boost your fragile ego.
3. If you are so insecure or threatened by my opinion then stroke yourself on the back and everything will be O.K......It`s should be obvious that I am a BoB advocate!

P.S. I`m glad to hear that you are so successfull and I`m sure you will learn a little humilty along the way......cheers.

I like rotating between sims. Not the best way to develop proficiency, but it is fun.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ajax:

Arcade FM's? Oohh, no worries there mate. I'm afraid it makes even ECAOL rather arcadish. Did you try the demo?

What's important is they feel realistic, i.e IMHO you feel like you're in a three-ton aircraft at 15,000 feet. EAW, I must confess, flies a bit like you're on rails. As for the tech aspect, well I'm not really qualified to speak about it but I found the Spit bleeds speed rather slowly on final approach.

---

Ajax - found out how to bleed speed much better - you have to set prop pitch to "fully fine," as in real life. To manage pitch, you use "shift +" and "shift -". For full fine, it's "shift 0", full coarse is "shift 9".

You can get the full BoB keycard at SimHQ - go to the "Demos" section, and click on "info" for the .pdf keycard.

I see you complaining of the performance in BoB. How about posting your specs and settings and maybe we can help. Ya got to give a little to get a little.

I have a PIII 700/V5/256/Vortex2. 1024x768x32 no fsaa and average about 20-23 frames per second. Sometimes much higher, sometimes considerably slower.

Some things Rowan could have improved graphic wise. And there will be some game issues. But if I can steal someones quote from a 'sister' forum string - this is a 'deep sim'.

I can't speak for the RAF in the 1940's but the USAF doesn't just give fighters to any pilot that graduates. I don't think it's a reach to say the RAF does the same -then and now.

Tweak that Gigatron and stick with 'BOB's'.