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»  COMBATSIM.COM ARCHIVE FORUM   » Archives   » Falcon 4.0 Archive 3   » Conservative Wingies

   
Author Topic: Conservative Wingies
Laphter
Member
Member # 2013

posted 08-03-2000 06:15 PM     Profile for Laphter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hi All,
I've had F4 since the day it hit the shelf, what a great day (I miss that rush)! I just did a fresh install with 108, RP3, F4Patch and couple of the excellent graphic enhancements, life is good and thanks for the enhancements.

So I fly my first mission of the second camp, a BAI ground thumper. We load up with AGM's and we're of to pop a few of the baddies!! I gave the weapons free order and commenced my attack! I went 8 for 8 and the other 3 wingies didn't even fire let alone hit something!! BTW, I also gave the "resume mission" order.

OK, is this just my wife's way of getting even with me for spending all this money on that DUMB Computer or what!! I seem to be missing something, any ideas??

Thanks


Posts: 208 | From: Charlotte, NC | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Zero Niner
Member
Member # 1171

posted 08-03-2000 06:28 PM     Profile for Zero Niner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Did you give them the "weapons free" order or the "attack my target" order? Did you pass the IP to trigger the AI target acquisition routine? AI wingman fly on weapons hold as a default.

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Zero Niner, out.


Posts: 986 | From: Singapore | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Laphter
Member
Member # 2013

posted 08-03-2000 07:29 PM     Profile for Laphter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
I used the "Weapons Free" order. Now that you mention it I don't remember hearing anything about the IP.

Next time I'll assign them all targets with "Attack my target".

Thanks


Posts: 208 | From: Charlotte, NC | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Vapor_214th
Member
Member # 4501

posted 08-03-2000 07:49 PM     Profile for Vapor_214th   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hi,

I was just wondering if there is a way to assign targets during breifing so that you dont have to select each target for your four ship...cause by the time you do that, you get shot down and your wingmen miss 90% of the time....Im thinking along the lines of JF-15...do you guys know what I mean?

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Good Hunting,

Vapor_214th


Posts: 77 | From: | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Zero Niner
Member
Member # 1171

posted 08-03-2000 10:57 PM     Profile for Zero Niner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Yup, I know what you mean...
If someone could come up with a way we could designate separate targets for the entire flight in the briefing phase, AND have the AI wingnuts actually try to hit it during the mission, that would be a great improvement for F4.

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Zero Niner, out.

[This message has been edited by Zero Niner (edited 08-03-2000).]


Posts: 986 | From: Singapore | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
cafétijger
Member
Member # 4207

posted 08-04-2000 02:06 PM     Profile for cafétijger   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hey, I know the wingmen problem all to weel, but I remember 1 mission, using RP2, where we had to destroy an airbase (runway, taxitrack, the works...) When passing IP and giving the weapons free order, my wingies just rushed off in front of me while I was lining up to take out the main runway, and they actually DROPPED THEIR BOMBS (Durandals) on the base! Can you believe that?!? They took care of a lot of work, one wingy even destroyed some AAA as collateral damage apparently! So you see, it's not all bad. Though I think that's about the only time I've been impressed by their performance.
Posts: 307 | From: Leuven, Belgium | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Dave the Rave
Member
Member # 3846

posted 08-04-2000 02:58 PM     Profile for Dave the Rave   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
All:

The wingman AI has been the subject of a tremendous amount of discussion and research on this forum. There are some obvious problems with it, and still some things we don't understand about how it was intended to work.

One thing that is very important is the order in which certain commands are given. As mentioned by a previous poster, you must pass close to your IP (initial point) before giving the "Weapons Free" command. The IP is defined as the waypoint immediately preceeding the target waypoint. Check your briefing, and you will often see a pre-IP, then an IP, then the target waypoint. As you and your flight pass the IP, it will trigger a sequence in the program that causes your wingmen to begin to look for valid targets. This is how the computer enables the AI to recognize targets within the target area, and ignore those that you may fly over as you ingress. After passing the IP, and especially if you hear a call from a wingie like "Let me at 'em", or "I have a good angle...", give the WF command quickly. It seems to have a limited lifespan in F4. If you give the command too early or too late, your wingies will not "remember" it or carry it over for a long time.

The other problem with AI kill ratios seems to have a lot to do with the bubble that controls virtually everything in the F4 world. If your Wingmen are attacking ground units, and you fly away from them and beyond the point where the units they are attacking are still within YOUR bubble, their kill ratios will be horrible. Stay close to them (just as you would do in a real combat engagement), and it will improve.

I have found a good method to be to either give the WF command and fly along with the AI as they attack, thus de-fragging the units for them, or to give the "Attack my target" command to designate specific targets for them, again staying close as they attack. After they have gone winchester, I use my ordinance to mop up any remaining targets. You can order your wingies to check your six while you do, and it will keep them busy, and sometimes keep a bandit from sneaking up on you.

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The Rave
Bug Out!!


Posts: 274 | From: Chattanooga, TN, USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Overkill
Member
Member # 5169

posted 08-05-2000 07:35 AM     Profile for Overkill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
My last mission was a BAI mission. My wingies all let loose with their mavericks when I called Weapons Free. As soon as we were about 15 miles from the target they asked for permission and I granted. One missed six out of eight, but another hit 7 out of eight. They performed very well and all the way back home we took care of a 4 ship of SU 27's.
Posts: 597 | From: Midlothian, TX, USA | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged

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