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»  COMBATSIM.COM Forum Archive   » Archives   » Falcon 4.0 Archive 3   » PREVIEW of a new B1B Bomber Cockpit (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: PREVIEW of a new B1B Bomber Cockpit
Tazzman
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posted 06-16-2000 05:29 AM     Profile for Tazzman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Merlin:

Hmm well what could do.. let me see.

If anyone else is reading this and hasn't seen the pics in the B-1B FORWARD SECTION post, you won't have a clue what I'm talking about. I'm writing this with the pics in my mind.

I would NOT use the co-pilot seat. You can't be both the pilot and the co-pilot, thats unrealistic. On the other hand, being DSO/OSO at the same time isn't realistic either but this would add increased functionality (both DSO and OSO) over the co-pilot's seat.

FORWARD VIEW:You could make the 2D View the left (aircraft commander) seat. We take this as the center view. Here you look out of the front window and see the top of the instrument panel as in your beta cockpit.

FORWARD DOWN: You would see the instrument panel.

FORWARD UP: You look up and see part of the "upper cockpit window" and to the left side perhaps part of the upper console.

LEFT: looking directly left you would see the left window and part of the controls.

LEFT-DOWN: looking left - down you would see the side-throttle, wingsweep controls and another other panel.

LEFT-DOWN-DOWN: You would look behind the seat and see... Nothing! The B-1B pilot and co-pilot can't see ANYTHING behind them. The B-1B cockpit shouldn't have a 6-o'clock view, or one that simply shows the galley or storage compartments behind the pilot and co-pilot seat.


RIGHT: We look straight at the co-pilot seat and see him sitting there, with all this instruments etc.

RIGHT-DOWN: We see the lower part of the instrumentpanel or perhaps we see the more center part of the large instrument panel.

RIGHT-DOWN-DOWN: We see the console between the co-pilot and pilot seat.

Well this is just a quick brain storm on the B-1B cockpit views. What do you think? I don't know if its all possible within Falcon 4.0. But this is what seems most realistic to me. I believe its VERY important to keep the logic of direction in your cockpit. If you look UP and suddely look at the co-pilot seat..would be....weird.

Leaves us with a very strange question. As the B-1B does not has a HUD, what do we do with the HUD Only view? You should not deny this view as many people use this view in combat during campaigns as it gives you much better FPS.


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Tazz
22nd Fighter Squadron "Stingers"
Last of the Red Hot Fighter Squadrons!
ICQ: 3172607

[This message has been edited by Tazzman (edited 06-16-2000).]


Posts: 1647 | From: The Netherlands | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Ego
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posted 06-16-2000 07:19 AM     Profile for Ego   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Merlin, may I suggest you do a rough schetch of the couple of layouts that you have in mind and let people comment on them before you get too far into the project.

I still beleive having the two MFDs is the better and more realistic way to go, even if not 100% accurate, most importantly for ease and playability. If you are going to radar bomb with CCRP you will need the two MFDs, trust me here, I have been practising this since the "fly any patch" came out in F-111s & B-52s.

There is only ever one person who is going to be flying this this and the last thing you need is to be switching to different veiws all the time to get yourself set up.

If you want further information on what I have learned flying the missions in these particular aircraft contact me on ICQ#26052738 or e-mail at ozcharge@onthenet.com.au

Regards

Ego


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Tazzman
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posted 06-16-2000 07:35 AM     Profile for Tazzman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
If I understand the B-1B cockpit layout completely, the OSO (Offensive Systems Officer) delivers the weapons, and he has *3* displays! The pilot only one.

I just can't understand how the OSO can control the B-1B as he can't see anything but he does have a stick!

I'll try to contact some B-1B crewmembers I met at Nellis AFB in April.

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Tazz
22nd Fighter Squadron "Stingers"
Last of the Red Hot Fighter Squadrons!
ICQ: 3172607


Posts: 1647 | From: The Netherlands | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jrgman
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posted 06-16-2000 08:00 AM     Profile for Jrgman     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
In your questions how the OSO controls the plane well a simple answer is the pilot is in command of the crew and him and the copilot control and fly the plane. Neither of the two back seaters can fly the plane. If my memory serves me right the stick is only for use on the displays kinda like a mouse. The three displays that the OSO has is for Wep and radar info. The pilot has the info up front about Time to Target so that he will know when to relase the bombs and if memory serves me right the OSO selects the package to release and the airplane acutlly does the release itself once given premission. The wieght of the bomb(s) is countered automaticlly by the airplanes fuel system computer so that proper CG is maintained.
The nucular weapons that the B-1 can use is what is in the inventory of the USAF. For example the B61 that is in F4 can be used in the B1 and also if someone modeled a cruise missle the weapon can be put in the first and second bay since the walls on the first and second weapons bay moves to accomadate larger weapons. Also for longer missions that might be required (mostly used for training) the B1 carries a internal fuel cell in the first bay but it can carry that in any of the bays. The B1 is not allowed to carry Cruise missles since the ratified the salt treaty. Also when the designed the B1 they had plans for it to carry cruise missles on the outside of the plane and there were hardpoints for this on the early models. Do not remember if the 85 and 86 models had this ability.
John

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Stan Man
unregistered

posted 06-16-2000 10:27 AM       Edit/Delete Post
Wow. Let me just say that this thread and the B1 cockpit threads posted by Tazzman are some of the best threads YET that I've seen.
These mods will extend the life of F4 beyond any other flight sim on the market today. We've come a LOOOONG way from that early bug-ridden 1998 release.

After looking carefully at the front and aft B-1 photos, some compromises will NEED to be made in functionalities and displays. I'm as much a realism buff as anoyone else, but you won't be able to model 4 (!) separate ultra-detailed stations AND fly the plane at the same time with 1 end-user.

To follow up on Tazzman's idea, I think you actually narrow it down and go with 2 stations: the pilot station (i.e. aircraft commander) and the OSO's station. The DSO station can be left out because the F4 jammer doesn't work anyway, and most of us have our flares and chaff already programmed into our HOTAS so we wouldn't need those switches on screen.

So I would use FORWARD, FORWARD UP, and FORWARD DOWN hat views as Tazz suggested above, but use LEFT and LEFT DOWN to view OSO station with its' 3 displays and to set up bomb runs. This is more functional than seeing the galley or storage compartments.

Going back to the pilot's console, notice the "terrain following" and "terrain avoidance" panel immediately to the right of the joystick. Can these be made functional?


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Tazzman
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posted 06-16-2000 10:51 AM     Profile for Tazzman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Do you have Xis 1024x768 Beta6A cockpit installed?

If so, you'd notice that you can ADD views to the cockpit. Like the Tactical Reference Xis put in there.

In the Beta 6 pit, from the 2D view you go:

- DOWN: look down in your pit
- DOWN - DOWN: enter reference screens
- DOWN - DOWN - LEFT: airfield info screens
- DOWN - DOWN - RIGHT: SAM/AAA info screens

Now this gives more then enough space to model both the FORWARD section (pilot + co pilot) and the AFT section (DSO + OSO stations). They don't have to be fully functional but I would like to have them there anyway - for realism.

You could do it like you make the B-1B cockpit. The pilot seat is fully operational, the co-pilot seat.. well you can just look in that direction and see your co-pilot sitting there.

You could do the same (or rather the reverse, as the OSO is sitting right instead of left) for the OSO. You look LEFT and you see the DSO sitting behind his panel. Would give a bloody realistic feel to it

I know its lots of extra work but it would be more real.. the F-16 is flown by one person. The B-1B is flown by 4. I think doing this would atleast give you the idea that you're not alone in the plane.

Regarding the toilet and storage compartment views.. you're running into an useful vs realistic point of view. Ofcourse no one would uses these views but it IS what you SEE when you look behind you. There simply is no 6-o-clock view in the B-1B so this would be a good replacement.

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Tazz
22nd Fighter Squadron "Stingers"
Last of the Red Hot Fighter Squadrons!
ICQ: 3172607


Posts: 1647 | From: The Netherlands | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged
MerlinM
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posted 06-16-2000 06:05 PM     Profile for MerlinM   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Hoi

@Tazz
sure i know the 1024x768 Beta6A, this one rulez, nevertheless I will not add more views, i desided to drop the co. pit, because it shows nearly the same stuff as the pilot pit.

@Ego
sorry, but the pilot will only have one MFD, and also the HUD will fall, but I will relaise two versions of the pit, with and without HUD.

Views:
The only view I will really change, is the down view, this will be the new AFT pit.

SnakeAce will post some pics of the this version very zoon.

------------------
Cya Merlin

C/O @ 440th VFS
->http://440th.strikenet.at


Posts: 45 | From: | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
SnakeAce
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posted 06-18-2000 09:44 AM     Profile for SnakeAce   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk69:
Here is the strange errors.. they show fine in a gfx prog. I have a V3 also..


Hi Nighthawk69
The problem with the colors at night of the F14 cockpit is solved. you can download the new version at our site: http://440th.strikenet.at

SnakeAce


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Glasses
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posted 06-18-2000 11:11 AM     Profile for Glasses   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Will this cockpit be clickable? or douknow how?

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Nighthawk69
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posted 06-18-2000 12:12 PM     Profile for Nighthawk69   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Thanks SnakeAce!!

Also, I havent had a chance to take a look at all the pics Tazz posted for the B1, although I just wanted to let ya know that there is a small, but god pic of the inside of a B1 pit in the new COmbat Aircraft magazine.

Nighthawk.

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Simulation News
69th VFS Werewolves


Posts: 125 | From: Windsor, CA USA | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tazzman
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posted 06-18-2000 02:12 PM     Profile for Tazzman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Have a look on both the B-1B cockpit threads (forward and aft sections).. you will like

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Tazz
22nd Fighter Squadron "Stingers"
Last of the Red Hot Fighter Squadrons!
ICQ: 3172607


Posts: 1647 | From: The Netherlands | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged

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