The best way to participate is to sign up for some work and put your energy into building, designing, coding and testing.

Thanks for returning to the forum. It seems that many here on this board, lurkers and posters, are clearly awaiting leadership from your corner. Combined with the eBattlefield/OpenSim confusion, there's been a lot of hostility going around, stifling further open and constructive discussion.

Please read and comment on the following thread:

Defining the Organisation

Personally, I hope this public forum can now be redefined and opened up to a wider audience for discussion of open simulators in general, be it an open support organisation for simulator development, open-source development projects in general, or even open-ended commercial products extensible by 3rd-party efforts. In that regard, maybe the forum should be renamed? Eg. "Open simulation"?

If this forum is something different with a clear defined scope and leadership (as implied by many here), I hope that you can take it upon yourself to outline a clear statement about what this forum is all about and what it is meant to discuss, who the leaders are, if any, and what project they are leading and what the project is trying to achieve. I suggest that this statement is put up on the OpenSim site and repeated here.

Regards.

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Originally posted by ChopstickQ:
Let's stay focused on the target and give the eBattlefield effort a real chance.

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Opensource efforts are tough and require a great deal of time, dedication and commitment. The people who are working on that project is giving it an honest go of it.[/B]

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Opensim is a principle that originally envision a community built around supporting open source simulations.[/B]

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Agree ....

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The eBattlefield effort is such an effort and deserves everybody's support. [/B]

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I would think that is a decision that each individual has to make.
They don't automatically deserve support ... I have no intention of ever working with them as a group based on my experience with their GI Joe Cartoon "leadership .. and I use the term loosely.
Anyone who sets themselves up as a leader can expect questions. They will earn respect over time, if they drop the gung-ho (put's on best bobby voice) 'ello 'ello 'ello, wot's goin' on 'ere then!

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That doesn't mean that they will make everybody happy [/B]

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But not "everybody" is agreed to the direction. That is if, others in the community are given a chance to voice an honourable opinion.
YOU announced OpenSim ... and then YOU announced the OpenSim merger ... before many in the community were ready.
The question that is on many minds is ... is this OpenSim in name only ... or is it not?
Personally, I think your involvment is a terrific thing. You encourage open discussion, but then you leave and less capable communicators wade in like a bull in a China shop and then there is the issue of censorship ... Their site? I thought there was a merger ....

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...or even do everything "right" but everybody should have a chance to participate and voice an opinion.

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Maybe the vociferous 'ello 'ello 'ello type of individuals at eBattle should take this to heart. It just doesn't get a chance to happen, before some foul mouthed and sanctimonious fools, jump on the person who is questioning, for raising a "negative" view point. This is then generally exacerbated by eBattle's obviously biased attempt at quietning the situation and quelling what they percieve as dissent.

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The best way to participate is to sign up for some work and put your energy into building, designing, coding and testing.[/B]

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I'll watch to see what they come up with ...
and I'll keep working to the best of my ability and wait until an Open Sim really comes along

Teapot

P.S. No disrepect intended to you Gilman ...I'm merely voicing my opinion based on recent events.

[This message has been edited by Teapot (edited 10-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Teapot (edited 10-21-2000).]

Generally agreed. As an effort at PR, this has been a nightmare, amateurish in conduct and execution.

Certainly, while the concept and endeavor is noteworthy, I wonder if it is just a ground breaking excercise that is designed to fail..

Cheapest market research possible, least expensive talent pool with fresh ideas, the traditional resources from game sources have for the present run their course...

No one with any future prospects in industry would I believe voluntarily involve themselves in such an effort unless there were some payback down the road.

I would have thought the flight simulation community at large deserved better.

Back to Falcon 4 and efforts by third party.

regards all,

Shame on us.

regards,

Teapot, if you think you would do a better job at PR, there is nothing stoping you from writing up some kind of press release and submitting it Moose. If it is good and reflects what eB wants he would post it. Teapot I think you could be an asset to the team but you just have to overcome your hangup with eB. The time has come join, contribute, and then we as a community can proceed forward and acomplish the task at hand.

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Teapot, if you think you would do a better job at PR, there is nothing stoping you from writing up some kind of press release and submitting it Moose. If it is good and reflects what eB wants he would post it. Teapot I think you could be an asset to the team but you just have to overcome your hangup with eB. The time has come join, contribute, and then we as a community can proceed forward and acomplish the task at hand.

Boddman Out!

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I was/am not looking for a defined role in PR.
However as stdfmr has pointed out, this exercise is a PR shambles.
My disagreement initially had nothing to do with how eB communicated with me ... however my ire was up when I noticed that some of the eB official leadership, flamed the fires whenever a hanger-on lambasted what appeared to me to be reasonable questions from concerned individuals. Notice the anger generated towards LeadHead and H.v.H when they queried something.

Instead of providing a PR centric and civil answer, they are (and now I too) told to sod off and be more "constructive".

Nobody has a map yet. I hear that some people have begun tiling? Why? Is the method for producing terrain already decided? Is it following the F4 model? How should we best be constructive? Lay out the specifics of the plan of action. Write up a white paper. Really get the community involved this time.

I see so many contradictions. OpenSim was going to focus as a tool generator, as a resource. Now they are writing a simulator? Again, what is the design criteria, what is the road map.

It appears to me that we have a whole bunch of people who think they have a road map ... while another bunch of us don't have an idea about the target specifics.

Without a target, the only "focus" we should be generating is on agreeing on the target, and it should be SPECIFIC. "To create a kick-ass simulator" doesn't cut the mustard.

Not venting ... just watching the show from the side-lines ... until it decides to get serious.

Teapot.

This is sad ... this is very very sad.

America the free? I really thought that my side of the fence bore the brunt of the insults and inuendo.

This is not an auspicious beginning for an "Open" community driven activity.

I'm tickled pink .

Teapot

Must have been a glitch ... or someone is watching .
Very strange. The message I got was that "you are not able to take this action on this forum" ro something similar.

Anyway ... I'm glad that I can post ... and please disregard my questions regarding censorship.

Teapot.

Maybe it's time to listen........

The ultimate statement has "finally" been made. It can't be made any clearer than that.

Bye bye Teapot. :-D

Good luck ... you'll need it

You just dont get it. Having an opinion expressed here or anywhere else that is not necessarily in line astern with yours is not "arguing". To prevent any dilution of the party line, you need only shut the forum down.

What you bunch seem to fail to realize is how much everyone, whatever the expressed opinion may be, is very much in your camp already. The entire sim community is rooting for you. Combatting posts with replies that belittle, are downright rude, logical responses like "so" to perfectly viable points indicate a lack of maturity or lack of considered foundational thought regarding the project. That is not obviously the case here. The point of issue is that with the apparent sensativity of certain eb member's posts you come off to my mind like a bunch of kids holed up in a bedroom, pc on, and moms in bed....

Again, that's not the case. But the pr coming this way doesnt make a very good case.

THE sim community at large want you to succeed. Forums by their nature however are for "venting.."

regards,

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Originally posted by Am I censored?:
My disagreement initially had nothing to do with how eB communicated with me ... however my ire was up when I noticed that some of the eB official leadership, flamed the fires whenever a hanger-on lambasted what appeared to me to be reasonable questions from concerned individuals. Notice the anger generated towards LeadHead and H.v.H when they queried something.

Instead of providing a PR centric and civil answer, they are (and now I too) told to sod off and be more "constructive".

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Huh??? What anger has been directed towards me from the eB people to whom I now count myself?

Personally, I think they have had a good point when telling people to "stop whingeing and be constructive".
Why? They have been subjected to lots of non-constructive criticism based on nothing but the implied leadership posts on the not-up-to-date website of theirs.

I don't think they've really had bad intentions such as meaning that people should bugger off or anything like that.

I think it's quite natural that they've been tense and stressed as some of the "main figures" who were capable of telling us about this, including the webmaster, were having a really messy time in their "real lives" at the time. Two of them were away working for a week or so.

Primetime for an example, stated, in response to one of my ICQ messages that "the past week had been the worst in his life" or something.

Go figure...

I belive that if we all tried to be more optimistic instead of forming opinions based on plain worries, thing would go ahead much easier.

Lead-Head out!

No warts on my nose bud, check ur own.

Btw. What was it I was needing the luck for? You'll have to enlighten me...

there are the following simple facts:
1. those forums are for development discussions and would be used by people involved in the project. There are plenty of other forums for open discussion.

2. Giving access to those forums that are kept private BY NECESSITY to everyone is only going to be counter-productive.

Now we all know what kind of people i am referring to with the terms "dickheads" - the trollers, the naysayers, the flamers, and bluntly - the clueless. Take a look at the usenet space-sim forum for a prime example.

Now for Teapot, my "dickheads" comment was not directed at you. If you wish to behave like it was that's your prerogative.

we are in the final stages of organizing the effort. I'd like to direct you to the ebattlefield.org website for status information on the project.

Thanks for your inqury,

Currently we are still organizing with very little being done in the way of design. The only two groups that are slightly functioning now are the server and flightmodel groups. It is going to be close to a year before we get a decent release out that has something that looks like a flight sim in it.