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»  COMBATSIM.COM ARCHIVE FORUM   » Archives   » Falcon 4.0 Archive 1   » The ATO

   
Author Topic: The ATO
Yorkshire Tea
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Member # 170

posted 01-10-2000 06:30 AM     Profile for Yorkshire Tea   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Anyone have a detailed explanation of the way the ATO is generated? (I've read the iBeta nots on the PACs etc) The one thing that really annoys me still about F4 is the way there can be (say) only 7 aircraft in a squadron, but still 5 missions sceduled with (say) 4 aircraft each on the ATO.

Does the program look at the number of airframes or the number of pilots when calculating the ATO? Does anyone know how the variables in the Falcon4.Aii file work (specifically the Plan and Task time variables and AircraftTurnAroundMinutes variable?


Posts: 315 | From: leeds | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Alex
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Member # 107

posted 01-10-2000 07:09 AM     Profile for Alex   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
There is some disagreement on this, but I think that the preferences on the PAK screen determines which of the mission types from the ATO are actually fragged to your squadron. I don't think the PAK screen actually affects the ATO - just the F-16 frag lists. If the ATO is only producing BARCAPs, that's all the F-16s will get, irrespective of what the PAK preferences are. But if some BAI missions are generated, you have a good chance of getting them if your priorities are high for that mission type.

Sometimes missions are cancelled due to "lack of pilots". The view is that it should read "lack of aircraft".

The relationship between the number of aircraft flying or assigned to missions to the "available aircraft" is something of a mystery. One view that there are more planes in a squadron than actually stated because after a plane has landed, it is unavailable for some time before it is free to be used again. A plane in the frag order that has a particular pilot shown has been assigned to the mission and can't be unassigned to free it for another. I don't know if there is a way of cancelling the mission - I haven't found it if there is.

There is some truth in this I think, but it is not the whole story. I have had more than 24 planes from one squadron in the air at the beginning of a mission, although some flights are cancelled. And, without any re-supply, the total number of Flankers in the air added to the number I have shot down in the previous hour exceeded the total number of planes available to the Flanker squadron.

So I don't know what is going on. One possibility is that there may be a time lag between planes getting lost and getting recorded, so the generator will continue to task missions and they will continue to get flown.

Alex.


Posts: 1218 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Snacko
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Member # 38

posted 01-10-2000 08:26 AM     Profile for Snacko   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Check the FAQ on www.ibeta.com. Leo has written a very nice section on how the campaign sliders, PAKS, ect affect the ATO.

If you are interested in generating specific types of missions, this is the best source.

------------------
Eric Marlow
aka "Snacko"
Contributing Editor - COMBATSIM.COM
iBeta - Director of Technology



Posts: 259 | From: Denver, CO USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Alex
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Member # 107

posted 01-10-2000 08:50 AM     Profile for Alex   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Snako:

Do you mean the ATO or the FRAG list? I have seen no evidence that the priority missions slider affects the ATO, but it can affect the frag list, as long as the appropriate missions are being generated. But I know there is a debate here.

Alex.


Posts: 1218 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Yorkshire Tea
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Member # 170

posted 01-10-2000 09:57 AM     Profile for Yorkshire Tea   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Snacko,

I've read the iBeta ATO explanation and it is very informative - keep up the good work. I suppose I just really, really wanted the hyperactivity (on both the DPRK and Combined Force sides) toned down a bit.

As Alex alludes to, what I'm really after is control of your squadrons 'Frag' order, in order to be able to reduce the number of times there are more aircraft in the air than there actually are on the squadron roster.

I've systematically played around with a lot of the variables in the Falcon4.Aii file to examin their long term effect on campaigns, but whilst I've managed to alter the number of missions fragged at any given time, and the number of priority missions (A & B priority) available, the results still seem to end up the same, namely:

More aircraft take off than is physically possible.

This lead me to wonder if the program was checking the number of pilots available as opposed to the number of planes available when generating the Frag.

I've seen an explanation from the Hex Codes crew on how the number of planes available at the start of the campaign may be varied. I'm wondering if a couple of bytes changes somewhere would yield less pilots in each squadron, and therefore cause the change i'm looking for.

Sorry for the long post, hope you get my point.

[This message has been edited by Yorkshire Tea (edited 01-10-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Yorkshire Tea (edited 01-10-2000).]


Posts: 315 | From: leeds | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Meatball
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posted 01-10-2000 04:02 PM     Profile for Meatball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
ALEX

I discovered that I was totally mistaken about that situation where the frag shows nothing but CAPs. I wasn't paying attention to the fact that a particular squadron's specialty was air-to-air. And then bitching about CAPS.

All you got to do is switch to another base if you want A2G. Sometimes the simplest things evade me....


Posts: 851 | From: Ft. Lauderdale | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Meatball
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Member # 256

posted 01-10-2000 04:07 PM     Profile for Meatball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Gee, I wouldn't mind more aircraft taking off than are available.

It's the lack of pilots thing that gets me, because there usually ARE sufficent aircraft and pilots available. Apparently they just haven't been assigned. I figure this as a bug.

OTOH, if you were ever in the military, you'd call it realism, aka FUBAR and SNAFU.


Posts: 851 | From: Ft. Lauderdale | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
Meatball
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Member # 256

posted 01-10-2000 04:14 PM     Profile for Meatball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post
Okay, I read Leo Rogic's piece and I take that to mean PAKS affects MISSION SCHEDULE, not ATO.

I agree with Alex that the ATO is fixed, since those are the resourses that are available.


Posts: 851 | From: Ft. Lauderdale | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged

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